RPG Maker MZ, Preview #5: TPBS, A Closer Look

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erikmidnatt

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the new battle system seems cool, cautiously excited for it.

Now give me a couple of years to put it to use. ^_^
 

DoubleX

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While I'm no coder on a massive level, I would make it so that if an enemy/actor was inflicted with paralyze or something similar that their turn gauge still goes up while they cannot move, but when it fills it instantly drains and keeps going as if they had done no action for that turn, that way the battle can keep rolling and all turns keep counting. At least that is how I would do it.
I like this idea and it should be an easy, simple and small implementation, and the only unclear piece would be whether the battler bar should become empty the moment the paralyze/stun state's removed(as the battler bar could be full right before it happens), and both possible implementations should be trivial as well :)

As for asking about Action Times+ I was really wondering how that would work of if it would be completely ignored... I would love to see something like if you have Action Times+ 1 it could cut your ATB bar in half (fill at 2x speed), +2 would be 1/3 speed(3x as fast) if at all possible, would make it so a state could feel like a Haste effect without having to modify the actor/enemies AGI value, which might not have the desired effect of making them feel actually FASTER.
It'd mean Action Times+ would no longer be random(unlike what's been in VXA and MV), and I personally dislike the random nature of Action Times+, so I think this idea can work well as well.
If Action Times+ were still random, it'd have to be used upon a certain timing, like calculating its accumulated result right upon battle start, right after the battler has executed actions, and right after the battler becomes not paralyzed/stunned, etc, which is still totally feasible, but of course there can be a lot more edge cases, especially when some battle-related plugins come into play :D
 
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I have a dumb question. So I bought the pre-order package and DLed the available files. My question is about the free asset packages. Are those the art style of MZ? Are they going to be in the MZ RTP or do they belong to some other asset collection? What are they!? lol
 
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Someone draw this NOW. Please! Please, someone draw this. The world needs this.

Did somebody just call for a Grass Cannon?
wVZbR8x.jpg


As this is clearly off topic feel free to remove, but I just had to do it :rheh:
 

DK

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What about plugins API ? If you added to MZ the ability to check for plugin updates from this site, it would be incredible!
 

DoubleX

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2 more questions:
Question:
Will poison state deals damage based on the battle turn or individual turn?
Individual Turn.
So let's say an actor has been inflicted with a poison state, does it mean the poison state will never inflict damage on that actor if that actor always keep idling and never actually inputting or executing actions?
If so, then there will be a new tactic - An actor inflicted with a poison state can simply wait until another actor removes the poison state of the former to prevent taking any damage from that poison state.
Conversely, when an enemy has a regen state, just slow down the agi of that enemy at all cost, and then remove that regen state when such action's ready, or just spams the strongest attack on that enemy before his/her/its next turn even comes.
Applying this to enemies/actors with autobattle/confusion will lead to new AI options as well, even though it'll mean plugin developers writing AI plugins will need even more effort and time to do their jobs well.
It's a direct follow-up from the 2nd and 7th question - If a battler has inflicted a poison state and that battler uses an action to remove that poison state him/her/itself, will that battler still take poison damage once?
Technically, if an action removes a state and the action execution subject's the same as the action target, does state removal comes first or does state turn count update comes first(I guess it's the former as action effect should take place before the action execution ends but I just want to be sure)?
 

Wavelength

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An actor inflicted with a poison state can simply wait until another actor removes the poison state of the former to prevent taking any damage from that poison state.
I think you might be right that this would be a possible tactic in the "true" Time Progress system (where multiple battlers can be ready at once), though not in the "faux" Time Progress system (where the gauges fill up in real time but then the action pauses until the battler chooses an action).

However, it's not something I would worry about too much, because it seems like it would be a questionable to ineffective tactic - if you want to stop, say, two ticks of Poison from affecting you, you essentially have to wait for two turns (or almost that much). Usually the action is worth more than the chip damage from the Poison. In the rare situations that may arise where it's not, that's clever play on the part of the player - sort of a case of "it's not a bug, it's a feature". ;)
 

Touchfuzzy

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It advances your turn count at the beginning of your action, not at the end. And I would imagine poison would be set to tick at the beginning of the characters turn.

So yes you could switch to another actor and have them cure them, but I don't think it would provide that much more advantage over selecting the action with the poisoned character then having that character cure them, because they already suffered the tick anyway.

Action Times+ I would imagine would not be used much in TPBS because it serves a purpose (letting someone take more actions in a turn) that TPBS already solves. To be honest I don't know how it interacts at the moment because it isn't something I ever tested (I might test it a bit later, but I'm kind of sleepy, 3am announces then turning around to do resource announces is not fun)

The battle turns questions with bosses: remember that the battle turn is determined by the fastest ENEMY not by the fastest character. So the speed of your characters don't affect the battle turn.

On the question of if the time scale changes based on who is the fastest dynamically, I'm 99% sure that it is set at battle start and stays the same throughout the battle.

All the "can't do X" type actions, you still get "turns" but they don't do anything but count up for the duration.

Can't remember other questions because I read through the thread kind of sleepy but here are some other thoughts:

Yes, stuns and slows together are a really good combination.

Yes, slows work really well against regen status effects.

Defensive buffs are really good for slow characters.

But most of this falls into "feature, not bug" category if you keep these in mind while designing.
 

Tsukihime

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If so, then there will be a new tactic - An actor inflicted with a poison state can simply wait until another actor removes the poison state of the former to prevent taking any damage from that poison state.

When I wrote an ATB for MV, I distinguished between "actor/enemy turn" (aka "individual turn") and "battle turn". Not only that, I also had another counter called "state turn". This was to address the damage-over-time issue

For example, let's say one battle turn is 100 frames.

Actor 1 moves every 100 frames
Actor 2 moves every 50 frames due to double speed

This means that after actor 1 makes a move, a new battle turn begins.
Meanwhile, actor 2 can make two actions every battle turn.

Individual turns actually didn't matter here. I never found a use for it, though if you had like a "bleed" status that causes damage after every action performed, then ya it would be disadvantageous for actor 2 because now he's taking in so much damage since he performs actions so quickly.

Now what's important is the state turn. Let's say the state turn duration is equal to battle turn, so 100 frames.

This means that if you expect poison damage "every battle turn", you would expect to receive damage every 100 frames from the time the poison state was applied, not necessarily at the begining of a battle turn, not necessarily at the beginning of an individual actor's turn either (because they're fast or slow)

So let's say your poison was inflicted at frame 50. This means that poison damage will occur at frame 150, 250, 350, and so on. If actor 2 can get rid of the poison quickly, that's great he might be able to act before the first poison damage occurs.

However, if actor 2 doesn't have an antidote and needs to wait for actor 1 who is slow, it's very possible that he might suffer poison damage when the next state turn change occurs.

For me, thinking of things in terms of frames was much easier than thinking in terms of turns, because there are different kinds of turns. If I think of things in terms of "start frame" and "frame duration" then everything becomes normalized to a single unit of time.
To summarize:

- Battle turn 0 starts at frame 0, battle turn 1 starts at frame 100
- Actor 1 acts at frame 100, 200, 300
- Actor 2 acts at frame 50, 100, 150, 200, ...
- Poison state occurs at frame 50, poison damage occurs at frame 150, 250, 350, ...

My definition for "turn end" was therefore, (next_start_frame - 1).
So if battle turn 1 starts at frame 100, then battle turn 1 ends at frame 199.
 
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Hudell

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Based on the API it doesn't seem to have changed that much. A lot of MV plugins should continue working on MZ with little to no changes (obviously not all of them).
 

Rogue Milk

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I like this a lot.
Can we force the values of the charge speed or the turn of heroes and enemies via events?
 

Milennin

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The new battle system is like the most exciting thing about MV, for me. I think I may actually be able to accurately simulate my custom RM2K3 system, which I loved, plus that it now also has access to all the combat eventing from the modern RPG Makers, which should be a mega huge improvement. I may have to get a plugin requests for actor swapping with up/down, left/right instead of cancel, but that's a pretty minor thing.
 

Hudell

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Is this API "final" ?
It was my understanding that MZ would be using ES6, but the code on that API has only one or two ES6 features, it's not even using class syntax.
 

nio kasgami

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okay so hudell told me that...the JS code ins,t even es6 standard???
(you can check by the linked doc)
UNLESS it's outdated I am sorry but this not ES6 standard it's pure ES5
2a7dD0q.png


to me it's sound like VERY much as false advertising
 

Touchfuzzy

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I can't really answer the question because my JS knowledge is pretty much nil. I've contacted people who can answer the questions though, but they are probably asleep as they are not in NA time zones. I'll get answers when I can.
 

Hudell

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It's flagged as version "0.9.5", so I assume there may have been a few changes since then, but it does look weird.
It's also only including the classes from rpg_core.js, any chance we'll get the others too?
 
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