RPG Maker MZ, Preview #5: TPBS, A Closer Look

Anyone

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Why are you doing some damage control for those liars?
I despise the team who made MZ, when I pre-ordered (before cancelling now), I wanted a new shiny engine and not a Frankenstein of MV engine.
I'm shattered in 1.000.000.000 pieces, really.
That's a pretty harsh way of putting it, without knowing what's going on, or went on, behind the scenes, or even being certain to what degree the pessimistic ones here (like me) will be proven correct or thoroughly disproven.

If you're not certain the RMZ is what you want, cancel the preorder, I never preordered to begin with. (I don't do preorders. Period.)

Disliking the team is a pretty big thing, though, that's easy to say in the heat of the moment, but I don't think is something you actually mean when you think about it.

In every project, even one that isn't some big triple A business, there's often a lot of internal discussion & compromise making, and I'm fairly sure there are at least a couple of people in the team (not just the NA team, the JAP, too) who, behind the scenes tried to convince the decision makers to put more into the engine.

You don't see that from the outside, but it's often there.
That's why I actually don't look for someone to dislike or to "hold responsible" for the "possible disappointment", I don't need scapegoats or someone to tar and feather. I'm just a bit drained & disappointed, but I would neither blame any of the NA team, nor even all of the JAP team.

As a fellow disappointed person, my suggestion is cancel your preorder if you aren't sure you want it (which is what everyone in 2020 should know. Don't preorder unless you're 200% certain), and see what happens post release.

Touchfuzzy isn't wrong when he says we didn't yet see all of the code (we only saw a small part), and perhaps my doubts will be proven wrong and it turns out I was a silly fool for every doubting RMZ.
I'd love for that to happen, but we'll see.
 

DoubleX

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Also all of this coding discussion is fascinating. I'm actually more interested in MZ now than I was before, mostly because I want to poke and prod the code with a "stick" to see what it does. :LZSexcite:
So does it mean the MZ advertising campaign working for some potential MZ users like you(by trying to incentivize potential MZ plugin developers to have vigorous discussion)?
 

Reven

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I think I'll drop my 2 cents into this a bit. The following opinion is coming from someone who is not a serious creator of games with the RPG Maker series, but rather one who collects them, and tinkers with them as a hobby, and wants to support the series since they officially released in the West.

At first, I was not interested in RMMZ, and was rather irked by the way the marketing has been done with this slow drip of information.

I decided to preorder not because of the code, I chose to pre-order when I saw many features included that were once plugins. I mean sure, I can do resolution and some form of time turn battle system with plugins on MV, but I, being from the Elder Scrolls modding mindset, like to think that "The less plugins I need to use, the better."

I can understand the disappointment over the code thing though, and I hope that the result is at the very least satisfactory to most to some degree when MZ releases. I think let's wait until more information is out before going right to the "THEY LIED!!!" sentiment. If you aren't sure, don't pre-order, or cancel if you did, that's your right as a consumer.
 

ImaginaryVillain

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So does it mean the MZ advertising campaign working for some potential MZ users like you(by trying to incentivize potential MZ plugin developers to have vigorous discussion)?
Oh not really, I'm on the record as saying if they had just said, "Here's a new RM!" And released it, I would have bought it on the spot just to mess with it. Nah this had the opposite effect, it basically assassinated any hype I had. And I mostly just found the threads interesting (which I actually thanked them for this ad campaign causing), and have learned a lot from what programmers are saying here.

So basically this strange advertising plan, gave me ample time to investigate people's plugin plans, possible plugin release dates, and what plugins I would need to make to have what I have now. So it changed my buying plans from immediately to 6-12 months out when I believe there will be enough plugins to make it interesting. Definitely on the record saying it's the exact wrong style of advertising for me.

It's not even a set in stone time frame either... If those plugins fail to materialize, then I will wait until they appear. If PIXI5 gets fully adapted to MV, that also destroys my major reason for updating so I might never buy MZ at that point. Also if Mog releases a Star Ocean Battle System, I'll buy MZ on the spot. :LZSwink:

TLDR: Ad campaign led to interesting discussion, but missed the mark on selling MZ to me.
 

Kupotepo

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@ImaginaryVillain, let the coders and the pre-order becomes a vanguard of bug hunting. I am not good at fixing the problem with the MZ engine for sure. If I found the little bugs, I will berserk for sure lol. Just like much complex game and software, the bugs are the normal phases of the software life cycle lol.

I am sure if they cannot figure out. I will not fix the solution either.
 
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Hudell

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I've compared the code and determined that most of my plugins will work on mz automatically (mapshot being the main exception). So, since I won't have to spend time porting them but I already asked to take my vacation leave on August, I'll use the time to create a tool to supplement both MV and MZ with new features, such as custom tile size, custom event collision size, event hooks, grid free events and possibly fake pixel movement. Those things are already possible with my plugins but I'm going to make a custom editor to make them easier to use.
 

PixelHeart

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...I'll use the time to create a tool to supplement both MV and MZ with new features, such as custom tile size, custom event collision size, event hooks, grid free events and possibly fake pixel movement.
*Pixel Senses Tingle* ...huh O_O ... oh, hello Hudell, mind a new follower? Thanks in advance for putting in that effort for those of us not so savvy at programming. :D

Anyway, I'm still waiting it out on this. A little surprised not much has changed about the code though :/ .
 

DK

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I've compared the code and determined that most of my plugins will work on mz automatically (mapshot being the main exception). So, since I won't have to spend time porting them but I already asked to take my vacation leave on August, I'll use the time to create a tool to supplement both MV and MZ with new features, such as custom tile size, custom event collision size, event hooks, grid free events and possibly fake pixel movement. Those things are already possible with my plugins but I'm going to make a custom editor to make them easier to use.
Is there an opportunity to see the code of rpg maker mz? Where can i find it?
 

MikePjr

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I don't think the question i asked earlier ever got answered.
Can battlers sizes be scaled?
Can they be larger than the default size?
Like if i want larger battlers?
I'm just wondering if the size is set to a specific size.
 

Cyberhawk

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You can already resize them by editing the image.
 

_Shadow_

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Here's a summary of changes I've detected so far (reminder that this is based only on the rpg_core file, there are more files they haven't shared yet)

  • Map rendering has changed a lot, can't tell if it was for better or for worse without testing.
  • Sprites are not using Z position (I thought for sure they would, as pixi supports it now) - It still uses sprite sorting which is extremely heavy and the main cause of lag on MV
  • The main Game Loop is now managed by a PIXI.Application
  • Things such as Cache Handlers and Request Queues were removed (looks like anything added to MV after 1.0 was released is not there?)
  • Window class code has improved a little to make it easier for different plugins to be compatible among themselves
  • Blending and screen tinting were reprogrammed using more modern stuff

There's some interesting new methods too:
  • Sprites and other objects that use Pixi containers now have a .destroy method.
Here comes my opinion on this.
According to this piece of information, the red part is what has disappointed me, along with the not so 100% re written core engine to ES6 standards.


Seriously - I'd question if many people preordered MZ because it was all rewritten as ES6. Surely you'd want some better reasons than that to part with $60-$80?

True. Re-written in ES6 makes it easier to read, understand, tweak and expand. Selling point for me, but really not for many people and also not a good selling point (alone) to pre-order. I give you that all right!



Pre-order is an act of trust.
Pre-ordering is like telling a company that they are doing the RIGHT thing.
You show trust and the company in order to reward trust and loyalty, you get bonuses.
That is how it works most of the time.

I never pre-order. There was only ONE breathtaking exception.

So it really comes to this question: Can I trust the developers?
It seems that there will be performance issues as @Hudell mentioned they don't use pixi in the best way they could. Almost same issues as in MV. Speaking of MV, why isn't there a free update for MV to fix all its performance issues? I don't wanna be mean here, but I am annoyed. Why didn't they fixed what is broken on MV first? It also seems they didn't learned from their mistakes if they do things the same way. And they expect me to pre-order an engine I am not sure if they are gonna fix what will be broken with it?

Everything on threads 1 to 4 were spectacular. I really liked them, all and assets seemed pretty nice. Why not? But all these are useless if the engine can not deliver a game that will be hardware friendly.

I AM really sad I mean it from the depth of my heart. Honestly I love RPG Maker series, that is why I am SO merciless when it comes to a new product. I can tell it is a good try, pointing at the right direction. But it needs more to be considered a decent new product. At least the red part on performance should be taken seriously. If the engine has no performance issues on old hardware, then yes, why not? If it does though, it is still an issue. It is vital to have an engine that has respectful results. I think RPG Maker is not considered a toy, am I wrong?


If you like assets and hope that the performance potential issues will be fixed, then why not?
Reasons for a YES:

Supports full art and it includes some
Great new assets
Effexeer integrated into the engine
EVENT SYSTEM enhanced
Plugin Command enhancement is a game changer!
Map editor enhanced
Update project automated
 

Hudell

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MZ can still have a much better performance than MV, all I meant by that was that the one thing I know hits very hard on performance hasn't changed, but they can have improved things on any other corner of the engine.
 

MikePjr

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Ugh.. i don't know how many different ways i can try and explain what i was asking about the player battlers..
But hopefully if i can't do my own size battlers, then someone makes a plugin for it.
 

Kes

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I'm just wondering if the size is set to a specific size
If this is the core of your question, then no they are not set to a specific size, and have not been in at least the last 3 engines. The size is determined solely by the size of the image(s) you are using and so does not require a plugin to change them.
 

MikePjr

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To be clear i was speaking about the hero battlers.
I don't think Ace had a side view battle system.
I think it's MV and now MZ that has them.
 

The Stranger

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MV let you use large animated battlers for player parties too. I think there's size limitations in the character generator, though.
 
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@MikePjr
Frame size for CharcterSets and SV battlers in MV is 'relative' to the sheet's total size, the bigger the sheet the bigger the frame size. Just look at any of my SV battlers (see sig), none of them use the default size and all work just fine as actors without plugins.

So as has been said, if you want them bigger, make them bigger in your image editor. Just makes sure the frames are all the same size.

All in all I honestly doubt they'd have changed that in MZ.

Do note that as already said the in-built character editor does use hard limited sizes instead but that again has nothing to do with plugins. Just don't use the character editor, which you prolly won't if you are making your own assets in the first place.
 

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