RPG Maker MZ, Preview #6: MV Trinity Resource Pack Previews!

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TWings

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I didn't say you specifically were dishonorable, I said the actions of not providing a bundle that has RMMZ and Trinity is dishonorable [in regards to customer consideration]. It's basically trying to pigeon-hole potential customers into buying a bundle that includes 4-6 things, which many customers simply wouldn't want. It's why I specifically asked, "will it be offered in a pack for MZ + Trinity Pack, just those 2, for those who don't want giant bundles with 5 packs".
The just buy MZ and Trinity as a standalone, it's as simple as that. Nobody's forcing you to buy a pack.
 

Faherya

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Fun fact: A friend told me that the curious can open MZ projects in the MV without any adjustment. Just to have a look.







We obviously can't see the new features. But it is possible to see that the gross structure remains the same.
 

BloodletterQ

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Battle3 is the new Battle6. I don’t know why, but it makes me feel pumped and joyful at the same time. Also reminds me of Atelier.
 

nio kasgami

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Battle3 is the new Battle6. I don’t know why, but it makes me feel pumped and joyful at the same time. Also reminds me of Atelier.
Yup! I got the same vibe and it's my favorite haha
 

Ossra

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Battle5 is my jam.
 

SJWebster

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@Crusha stop being an absolute Karen. Your choices are:
  • Buy RPG Maker MZ at 20% off (assuming you own MV and qualify for the full discount) and then buy the RPG Maker MV Trinity Pack separately.
  • Buy the RPG Maker MZ Bundle S at 20% off (again, assuming you own MV) which includes MZ, the MV Trinity Pack, MZ Cover Art Pack, 3D Particle Effect Pack, Dark Fantasy Resource Pack, and the Essentials Set Z.
Degica are under absolutely no obligation to provide you with a bundle that just has MZ and the MV Trinity Pack in it.

In terms of price, RPG Maker is an insanely cheap engine. RPG Maker MZ, with the discount, has cost me a one time purchase fee of just £50.39. Game Maker Studio 2 ranges from £75.99 to £304.45! Unity ranges from free (if revenue / funding was less than £76,411.50 in the last 12 months) to £152.82 per month per seat! Unreal Engine is free but commands a 5% royalty when / if your product earns £764,175, that would be a royalty fee of at least £38,208.75!

There's been a lot of talk about resources and unused files. To be honest, the first thing I do when I create a new RPG Maker project is delete practically everything because I'll be replacing it all with my own assets anyway - especially the graphics. People who don't like chibis have options. There are a ton of resource packs out there, there are third party generators for tall sprites, it's never too late to learn art, or you could hire an artist. Again, it's unreasonable to expect an engine's default assets to cater to your specific needs and it's naive to release a game using those stock assets, especially if you're charging money for it.
 

KoriCongo

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every time someone rightfully complains about the prices being a rip, someone has to go and say "Well, what about all these better engines! They are SOOOOOOOOOO much expensive AND take royalties from you than the engine that took out layer control from you for nearly 2 decades!" One day I want someone to not use this weird whataboutism so we can actually criticize Kadokawa/Degica's pricing schemes...

That's... pretty damn funny. Like, I almost can't get mad at that, that's actually pretty brazen for the devs to pull. Just sell us MV 1.5.
I'm a cynic when it comes to RPGM but not even I thought they would be THAT gung-ho about doing the bare minimum and charging the same price for it.
They really couldn't have denied us the ability to open MZ projects in MV? Really?!
 

Galenmereth

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That's... pretty damn funny. Like, I almost can't get mad at that, that's actually pretty brazen for the devs to pull. Just sell us MV 1.5.
I'm a cynic when it comes to RPGM but not even I thought they would be THAT gung-ho about doing the bare minimum and charging the same price for it.
They really couldn't have denied us the ability to open MZ projects in MV? Really?!
Except the point is it makes moving your MV project to MZ far easier if the underlying data structure for existing functionality remains the same. All the new features and engine improvements using the same fundamental data structure and building on it is actually a sign of good software development process.
 

Touchfuzzy

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Except the point is it makes moving your MV project to MZ far easier if the underlying data structure for existing functionality remains the same. All the new features and engine improvements using the same fundamental data structure and building on it is actually a sign of good software development process.
I mean, changing things that don't need changing just to change them honestly makes no sense. There was nothing wrong with the underlying data structure for most things.
 

Galenmereth

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Mm, exactly. As a developer using the engine and writing plugins, I'm also happy because there was nothing wrong with (most) of that data structure, and not having to relearn an entirely new format for no good reason makes me happy.
 

nio kasgami

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Same its a common expression in the coding community :

If it work why changing it?
if It can be improved then improved.
If the improvement break everything else...then dont change it unless its very much necessary.

people Doesnt realise the change who was done who couldnt be kept as an "update" for mv since its just a full rewrite.

Especiallyyyyyy the save/ storage system who is rewritten as an asynchronous promise based system
It also come with a zipping system.


But thats all nerdy talk all i will say :

Yes unity free it come with a learning curve and u have to do everything fron scratch and pay Even more to get an system similar to rpg maker.

Rpg maker literallt silver spoon you in the mouth for only a 1 time purchases of 80$

Which i think is a fair price
 

Sword_of_Dusk

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Except the point is it makes moving your MV project to MZ far easier if the underlying data structure for existing functionality remains the same. All the new features and engine improvements using the same fundamental data structure and building on it is actually a sign of good software development process.
This. Really, I don't see why one would actively complain.
 

nio kasgami

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As for one of the teatures i like about Mz is that it have a *safe proof* guard so people doesnt add mv plugins to mz and complain it doesnt work
 

Coelocanth

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As for one of the teatures i like about Mz is that it have a *safe proof* guard so people doesnt add mv plugins to mz and complain it doesnt work
I give it a week for people to start adding the "target magic comment" to MV plugins and asking for support.
 

nio kasgami

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I give it a week for people to start adding the "target magic comment" to MV plugins and asking for support.
and no one will bother helping them since the plugin wasn't made for MZ.
we are not responsible for 'idiots' who decide to messup with tags...

but anyway I bet half of the userbase who doesn't do programming will not even understand how to add the 'tag'
 

Kupotepo

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@nio kasgami, what people are starting making up stuff now. Do you think their room have a poster of RPG Maker MZ? Wow, people are really fanatic on this.
Oooohm, can I just making things up? Now I am stared at this thread.

MZ has a great tutorial for the plugin. You can see on the Japanese MZ website. I am really impressed.
:rtea:
 
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Crusha

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@Crusha stop being an absolute Karen. Your choices are:
-Trimmed-
I believe it to be quite questionable, for your approach to be trying to create joinder that I may be a Karen (a derogatory pet-name which you have likened I to). In my journey to have my question answered of if a bundle exists for RMMZ + Trinity Resource Pack (just those 2), you have now resorted to [arguably] an ad hominem, derogatory pet-name, instead of attacking my points and arguments. That's quite presumptuous that I might be a woman that is associated with an inability to apologize. I specifically recall making it clear [more than once], I will apologize if what I have presented is wrong. At this time, I have not seen such a screenshot coming forward, showing me a bundle with MZ + Trinity [as 2], as the respectable staff member told I [that] my question was answered, and a bundle exists, when one does not. I was also told most of what I presented seems wrong, when quite clearly what I presented can literally be verified as true.

@Crusha Degica are under absolutely no obligation to provide you with a bundle that just has MZ and the MV Trinity Pack in it.
And at the end of the day, just because you're creating words, doesn't make them true. Imagine yourself as the lawyer trying to sell the argument/lie that with the release of MZ, they're under no obligation to release it without bugs. People know whether or not such a practice would be legally moralistic, but also ethically moralistic. Steam has countless publishers who exercise the practice of offering a base game, and also including 1 DLC [bundled] at a reduced price. Furthermore, if there are multiple DLC's, they often also have a bundle which includes those multiple DLC's, at an even greater discount (as a greater incentive to buy the bundle with all, instead of a bundle with the Base-product + 1 DLC). These practices are exercised because it's considered not only mutually beneficial (it gets more sales), it's respectable and honorable in regards to the consideration of the potential customers.

There are lawyers who would maintain your position (that is to say, being under no obligation to act moralistic for customer satisfaction), in regards to the [intentional] obsolescence and intentional points of failures on things like washers, dryers, light-bulbs, etc.. They will say 'behold -- the warranty on these things was for 2 years, and 2 years and 1 month it took for them to break down; we made honorable by our sale'. Yet, they have intentionally made obsolescence come to fruition with points of failure, so it would get them further sales. This is very dishonorable practice, yet it's done. This discussion has been a frequent occurence amongst professionals in those fields. Just because you believe a company is under no obligation to act in consideration of the customer, it doesn't mean your argument is correct. It seems to reinforce an infantile point of view, that dishonorable decisions pigeon-holing customers into $145 bundles is moralistic. It's anything but.

Multiple ice-cream stands exist throughout this world. Some will sell a small vanilla cone for $2; a medium vanilla cone for $3, and a large vanilla cone for $4. They charge $1/per topping. They have a special (a bundle). It's the most commonly requested bundle. They offer a large vanilla cone with sprinkles, for $4. So instead of it being $5, it's $4. They've reduced the cost by -20%. It increases their sales, and makes customers happy (that is to say, they take consideration with regards to the customer). This is what an honorable approach is. A dishonorable approach is when customers ask for a large vanilla cone with sprinkles, and then telling them if they want a special which includes sprinkles, they have to buy their supreme large vanilla cone special, which includes Chocolate candy, Raisins, Pecans, Caramel, Gummy bears, Oreos, and Sprinkles. Yes, a customer can buy a large vanilla cone and add sprinkles for $1, but some businesses actually proceed moralistically, offering the most commonly available special [requested] that they could make (a large vanilla cone with sprinkles -- IE RMMZ + Trinity). Trying to pigeon-hole an up-sale for things the customer does not want, is dishonorable. Businesses do it, and competent people know it's dishonorable.

I'm a man, fully capable of apologizing if I'm wrong. Perhaps if you wish to try to attack someone's arguments, show where those arguments are wrong, and prove what I posted originally, is wrong, instead of making a post trying to ruse an emotionally charged response from others.
 

Sword_of_Dusk

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I dunno, your whole spiel just sounds childish to me. I mean, I can understand you would like a small bundle featuring just the resources you want, but these long posts bemoaning the problem don't really seem productive.
 

Crusha

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I dunno, your whole spiel just sounds childish to me. I mean, I can understand you would like a small bundle featuring just the resources you want, but these long posts bemoaning the problem don't really seem productive.
I was told I was specifically wrong (when what I have presented is verifiably true), I was likened unto a Karen, and I have repeatedly acknowledged if I am wrong, I will apologize. And you wish to suggest to me, by me proving very valid points and defending my honor, I am likened unto being childish? I will be more than happy to apologize if I'm in the wrong, but I don't apologize for being a man.
 

Sword_of_Dusk

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I was told I was specifically wrong (when what I have presented is verifiably true), I was likened unto a Karen, and I have repeatedly acknowledged if I am wrong, I will apologize. And you wish to suggest to me, by me proving very valid points and defending my honor, I am likened unto being childish? I will be more than happy to apologize if I'm in the wrong, but I don't apologize for being a man.
You're not being anything except kinda prickly. The way you initially approached the problem was not very great in the first place. I'm not taking any sides here, mind you.

But that's the last I'll say. I leave it to Touchfuzzy to respond to you again or not.
 
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