RPG Maker XP - Map limit of 999 (yes, again)

Anamura

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Honestly, this post is not exactly to search for a solution, I've been searching for weeks, asking in groups, I've even searched in chinese forums, I've tried the disc changer etc but no good solution at all for my plan.

And before I get people commenting "wHy Do YoU nEeD mAnY mApS? pOoR sKiLlS!!!", I say my case.

I'm making a game since 2016 based in my own lore, so far it has more than 500 maps already on it. This game already got a major update not long ago because the first 2016 version was very noobish, although this update had more to do with database and new content.

So, have in mind that it has already more than 500 maps. This lets me with a potential of 450 maps remaining.

Let's do some maths.

In my lore, there are 7 worlds (planets). The world as it is now it is just like a generic city with lore stuff on it to explore, since back in time, I thought that making the whole planets into RPGMaker was too hard because I was noob (2016 thinkings).

In each world there are heroes, and there is a building in each city called "Palace of Heroes" with statues of them. One of my ideas from years ago was to make each hero statue to deliver a kind of "session play", like your playable character becomes the hero and you can play through his/her story, although intended to be very short (maybe 15 minutes story). The problem here is that there is a total of 20 heroes per world, making a total of 140 stories, and then let's imagine that I use this tactic of compressing all small maps needed for each story into 1, this makes that for making this idea at 1 map per hero, I'd need 140 maps. Then there are some more for the second era, so we can totally go for the 200 maps mark. However, there are many problems, specially 2, that bother me if I go for 1 map per story:
- Lag: I have already created a space game where I tested using super big maps, and even if the limit in XP is 500x500, making maps bigger than 200x200 will cause lag even if these maps are empty of events. In the case of these hero stories, these big maps with lots of "maps" on them would have tons of events, so it will surely lag
- Blizzard ABS mob spawning: I use this script, and there is a problem if I design the maps like that, and it is that these heroes will need to go to battle at some points, but if the battle areas and the normal areas are in the same map, then when hero is at battle area and defeat the mob, then as the mob spawn is random, it could spawn in a different "map". This is really bad

But hey, let me continue even more.

Recently, I had the idea that I really could make the 7 planets into RPG Maker like truly great open world game. I've already got the experience of making a really big world on other game I made in 2019, but that was only 1 planet. For making 7 planets, I would definitely need more than 500 maps for sure. But let's again do some maths.

Imagine that I strictly decide that each planet will have 50 maps, but these maps are the biggest possible without lagging, let's say 150x150, because they would have tons of events. Then maths say that 50x7= 350

You see the problem now if you do maths. Base game has over 500 maps, then heroes idea could potentially take 200 maps, and open worlds idea would potentially take 350 maps. This is already more than 999.

I don't know what to do. I wouldn't like to develop these great ideas with limits because then it would be like a workaround and they would take more problems than what they could solve. So I don't know. If I do the heroes idea and I even divide "normal maps" and "battle maps" (so I prevent the mob spawning problem), then it would be 200x2= 400. This could be possible but then the idea of open world planets would have to be completely discarded. Or I could just make the idea of open world planets in another game with another exe, like copypaste database and even savedata and then needing people to run another exe.
I don't know.

I know that there is not a good solution for this. I just wish it would be as easy as just increase map limit to 9999. No way I would make 9999 maps even in this ambitious project, but then I wouldn't need to worry about limits anymore. I don't think I would surpass the 2000 maps anyway.

I know the kind of replies I'm going to get to this post because it's the kind of replies that I've seen 99% of the times, so I just say a general reply to avoid people wasting time in writing such replies: I don't care about opinions, I don't care about commerciality, opinions are not facts, and tons of maps don't mean poor map making. I proved that it's just a matter of maths.

And lastly, if there is any... ehm, magical solution... I'd love to know. Although I don't really have hopes.
 

Shaz

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What exactly is this post aiming to accomplish? XP is over 15 years old - maybe closer to 20. It's not likely that any changes are going to be made (esp since every engine since also has the 999 limit).

If you need more than 999 maps, see if there's a script. Are you asking for a script? Because I don't actually see a request for a script here. If you are, then let us know and we will move it to the correct forum.
 

Anamura

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What exactly is this post aiming to accomplish? XP is over 15 years old - maybe closer to 20. It's not likely that any changes are going to be made (esp since every engine since also has the 999 limit).

If you need more than 999 maps, see if there's a script. Are you asking for a script? Because I don't actually see a request for a script here. If you are, then let us know and we will move it to the correct forum.
Oh I'm not sure, I think my only intentions with this post is to offer a different perspective to the recurrent topic of the 999 maps limit. I've seen threads like these afloat for many different years (2017-2019 mostly). And most of them didn't really offer a solution and not even tried to reply to the original question, most of the replies are like "why you need so many maps" "nobody uses so many maps" "if you use so many maps you are bad". So I wanted to offer a different perspective of a game project that doing just basic math calculations you can see that the map limit is a wall.

I think if this post should be somewhere, it should be in category of "suggestions". At the end of my post I was saying "I don't know what to do", so maybe some people can suggest some solutions that don't exactly solve the 999 map limit problem, but could serve as better idea, I don't know.

Currently I'm already assuming that the best idea could be just to make 2 or 3 different games based on the same, and see if there is a way to share the savedata excluding player map ID so the teleports are not affected, just the database.

So, suggestions category would be nice? Sorry for the confusion, even if I'm registered here from 2017, this was my first post. Thank you :)
 

Walldeaf

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What a story and what an idea, 7 worlds....
My tip would be, try to have your shops on one map, maybe that would save some room for other maps
that you need, or maybe even small house interiors together.
 

coyotecraft

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I wouldn't even bother with shop rooms. If I did, I would have all the interior rooms on the same map. Just spaced out. So a town would be like 2 maps each. Inside and Outside.

OR, if they're all just small rooms, have the room contents as events. Events have something like 20 event pages, right? So 1 map could represent 20 different locations. Maybe more if you let it randomly generate the contents. I don't remember, did XP have a replace tileset option? No? I'm certain you could replace the parallax background.
What I'm saying is that a "map" doesn't strictly have to represent 1 location.
 

Anamura

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In the base game that has total of over 500 maps, I don't really have many interiors at all, and even with that amount of interiors, I feel that I made so many interiors that all of them look the same lol like I wasted most of my imagination for designing interiors. Don't get me wrong, I tried the best I could to make interiors to feel different, but after making so many (like main town having many buildings but you can only enter in a few ones), I just felt that all of them are the same :D In comparison with exteriors, there aren't really many, but even if I do this idea of open world RPG with the 7 planets and I put zero interiors, I still can't do all the exteriors. Yeah, I made these maths based on applying these techniques or merging maps and such. Even if I merge the interiors of base game, maybe I could reduce the already created maps from 500 to 400, and the ideas proposed of open world and hero storytelling would still need to be severely limited to be able to accomplish this on 999 maps.

So yeah, just take this as a different perspective, that even with the workarounds, for certain projects, it can be a wall.

On the bright side, I feel that the idea of dividing into different games is somewhat liberating, because then I don't need to make these new ideas to make sense with the original game at all. I can think about them as expansions with a different exe. Maybe not the most ideal solution, but I'm starting to embrace this idea more than the workarounds, honestly. So if there is someone who also has an insanely big project, consider splitting into multiple games, even if all these games share the same database. Less headaches, I'd say. But as always, suggestions are welcome!
 

cradth

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Maybe, split the project into 7 games? 1 world = 1 game.
You can keep the database for weapons, armors, characters and items
to let the players continue their progress, :rwink:
 

Zeriab

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You have multiple options. Here's a list of some solutions I see in order of best to worst according to my subjective opinion:
  1. Wait for an RPG Maker XP editor patch that removes or raises the map limit (Not gonna happen)
  2. Use my Disc Changer script
  3. Create episodic games
  4. Create multiple games
  5. Create a script that takes maps from multiple projects and inject them into a single project
  6. Have your MapXXX.rxdata implement multiple maps for the player
  7. Reduce amount of planned content

Raise editor limit
The 999 map limit is purely an editor limit. The RGSS player itself as no notion of the limit and since the default code doesn't even load MapInfos.rxdata you can have a million maps. The game still will fine. (Assuming you have enough space on your harddrive >_>)
Best solution to your problem would be for the map limit in RMXP to be raised or simply removed. Unfortunately, this won't happen so we are left with choosing among subpar options.


Disc Changer script
You mentioned trying out my script, but you didn't quantify why so I will take the liberty of suggesting it again. Link: https://sites.google.com/site/zeriabsjunk/scripts-/disc-changer
7 worlds that are nice and separated from each-other. Sounds like you'll have some natural cut-off points that can be used for transferring between discs.

I would make 7 projects, one for each world with World 1 also being the main project. Then I'll copy maps from the other projects over into their subfolder:
  • Main + World 1
    • World2
    • World3
    • World4
    • World5
    • World6
    • World7
Remember that the script assumes the database is the same in all projects.
Hmm... perhaps make a special Bootstrap project where you copy the maps of the 7 world projects over to would be nice as World1 is no longer special.
  • Bootstrap
    • World1
    • World2
    • World3
    • World4
    • World5
    • World6
    • World7

Making sure that the databases stay in-sync between the different projects is tedious, and implementing functionality across different worlds is also tedious, but at according to your plan keeping within 999 maps of each world shouldn't be an issue. If it turns out to be an issue, then it's a matter of figuring out how to split that RM project up into more RM projects.


Episodic games
As you started warming up to, episodic games is an option.
For the sake of simplicity, I recommend making them linear. I.e. you can go from Game 1 to Game 2, but not the other way around.

You mention that the database will be the same for all games. This means that you may be able to transfer the player to a special Export map and request that they save the game there. Note down the map id of that map. Let's say this is Game 1.
Then in the next game (Game 2) you make sure that a map with the same map id and same dimensions. The player can copy the save file from Game 1 over to Game 2 and then load that save. It will load up that map. Then just make sure that you have changed the events so you can do stuff like saying welcome to the next game followed by a teleport to the true starting location of Game 2.
Note: Consider whether starting directly from Game 2 should be possible.

Being able to start from Game 2 is great but expect it to come with pretty big balancing problems.

P.s. if you change scripts in Game 2 it is possible that this option will no longer work for you.


Multiple games
You could make multiple self-contained games. From a story perspective they are in the same universe and may have a suggestion order of play. From a technical perspective they are completely different games.
No progress will be transferred between games so that does have a pretty significant impact on the design.


Multiple projects => Single project script
The Transfer Player event command contains all the information needed to load the next map.
The MapInfos.rxdata contains metadata about the maps used by the editor. It for example contains the name of the maps and their position in the map tree. Some scripts load this file to read the name of the current map.
You can add new map information MapInfos.rxdata and you can alter the data in the transfer event commands. This means that you can take a script which takes multiple projects and then generates offset the map ids for each project so they don't collide, create the MapXXXX.rxdata as they exist and populate a MapInfos.rxdata.

This does come with the caveat of common events being an issue. Hmm... I think it should work fine if you don't have map transfers in common events and have the same CommonEvents.rxdata in each project.



Implement multiple in-game maps with few editor maps
What the player sees as a map does not have to correspond to the technical detail of a map file.
You can use multiple mapfiles to implement what appears to be 1 map to the player. You can also use 1 mapfile to implement what appears to be multiple maps to the player.

There can be some interesting stylistic reasons for implementing multiple maps using 1 mapfile. For example, being able to see the insides of a nearby inn when you are visiting an item shop.

Be aware that combining multiple maps into a mapfile is bad from a performance perspective. Be more careful about using Wait for Move's Completion as you can easily end up causing a softlock. If you make a move route in say the weapon shop and there is a risk it will never finish, and you have a Wait for Move's Completion in the Inn then that won't cause any issues when they are on separate maps, but when bringing them together on the same map?



Reduce amount of planned content
As hurtful as this may be. Reducing the scope of the game is a possibility.
You can choose to not make more than 700 maps. The cost it comes with though...



@Shaz MZ has a 2000 map limit
@coyotecraft Replace tileset option irrelevant as for better or worse you had those infinite sized tilesets.

*hugs*
- Zeriab
 

bgillisp

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I do have to wonder if it is possible to put some of these maps onto one overall map though. My last game I've had players hit 99:59:59 on playtime (the cap on the playtimer) and I was at a little over 400 maps. And about 20 of those were just blank maps for organization, and another 50 were my secret rooms, and another 10 or so were cutscene only versions of the same map. So I could have gotten it lower if I had to.
 

AeroPergold

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Do what the devs behind Earthbound did and make one BIG map containing smaller chunks of other maps. Then do some fancy tricks for enemy encounters and music and blam! Less individual maps needed!
fullmap_small.png
 

orochi2k

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:kaojoy:Before the world reset events happened in Dec. 2020, NEOLITHIC does have over a few thousands of maps in NEOLITHIC-SAPC++. They are managed in different RPG MAKER XP projects while merged into the game as DLCs. I will certainly do that again soon.
 

Anamura

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Wonderful replies, I feel very happy for having made this thread! AeroPergold, that's a pretty interesting picture!

To specifically reply to Zeriab, let me say some words :)

- About DiscChanger script, I've tested it in a test project and while the concept is good, I think it would overcomplicate my project. I was thinking in make Disc0 for base game, Disc1 for the heroes stories, and Disc2 for the open world (I don't think one disc per would would be needed lol the project is ambitious but I don't think I would need 999 maps per world :D). But this idea has some issues. For example, the stories of the heroes would be accessed through statues from the Palace of Heroes, and then I would have to do script calls for every single statue... and for the worlds, I would also need to add the fixes to teleport skills, so if you are in open world of Disc2 and you use teleport skill to your house in Disc0, it doesn't bug... and I didn't think in more disadvantages but I'm sure there could be more potential bugs coming from using this. I see the disc changer is a great script, but in my particular project, it feels like it would overcomplicate the things a lot.

- About making it in different games, for now my idea has developed on having base game as it's now, maybe updating some content, but this game would be just like "lore game". Then I can make another game for the heroes tales, and another game for the open worlds (like having 100 maps per world seems reasonable, then I would use 700 maps total, just aprox calculation). Then I could add more specific mechanics to those different games. So yeah, they would be like different games of the same universe but at same time connected between them. I'd still love that they share the database, and for example, if people find the collectibles in game 1, they could load the objects they found in there into game 2, and that would unlock some secrets. Do I explain good enough? I know about the teleporting issue, but I'll think in a solution, I guess. Is there a way to share the savedata between games but it only affects to database, and not to player location in maps? I just wonder.

I really hope that this conversation can also be helpful for people having this same problem, so they can find what is the best solution.

Also, you say that MZ has a limit of 2000 maps? that's... interesting. 2000 maps limit would solve this issue for many people...
 

Zeriab

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Ohhh, you have it structured like that.
In that case there is something that can be done. It is possible to have duplicate maps. I.e. maps that exist in multiple discs.
Say that map 42 is Palace of Heroes. You could then duplicate the map in Disc1 and have it contain just 1 event that runs as a parallel process. It will contain a script call to transfer to map 42 in Disc0. Do the same for Disc2 and all the transfer events should work.

You can create a script that read the save files of the other games. You can then pick and choose between the information residing in the save file and also do translations should any be needed.
Alternative you can do it with having special export maps and special import maps. The procedure is as I described in the episodic games.

I think that you cannot avoid having to do a bunch of tedious work regardless of which option you choose.

Best of luck with your game~
 

Anamura

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@Zeriab that's a very nice idea to solve the Disc changer problem! I think the more time passes, the more I'm embracing the idea of different games, but very nice for suggesting that solution since it can be useful for other people.

About the savedata, I know that it could be easily solved with just creating the same map in both games, but the problem of this, it's that then the player would be "forced" to save data in that map, and I wouldn't like to remove saving the game at any place (something I dislike in old games most of the time is that you can't save at any time, think about Prince of Persia for example :D). I think the most important in savedata to share between games would be database related with items, stats wouldn't be needed at all, since this base game only has max lvl 10 and combat is very very limited.

Regarding tedious work, let's see :D I think if it's too tedious to do this of the savedata, I might just copypaste database and that's all. Something I learnt a couple years ago was that there are things that are not worth doing timewise. For one of my games, I tried doing a kind of ship animation for travelling. I reached to the conclusion that the engine is just bugged because it made no sense that it didn't work. After days trying to get it done, I just realized that such a small thing is not worth spending the huge time I spent, so I just ended using basic teleports. May this story also serve to others :)
 

coyotecraft

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@Zeriab the point of replacing the tileset (or parallax map) is to recycle the map by reskinning it.
A treasure room in a lava cave could become an ice cave, or warehouse storeroom.
 

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