RMMZ RPG with a Mario 64-like progression

[TheFerydra]

Greetings.
I've been adjusting an idea I got in order to make it more entertaining to play and hook players, and it consists in the idea that the progression of the game is similar to Super Mario 64, in the sense you start in a "floor" with some semi-open "worlds" or dungeons, where you can find some of the main collectible. Once you have enough, you can go to the "Boss Level" dungeon, which will unlock the next "floor" with its own set of slightly harder levels.
This is meant for a short game (I don't expect more than 3 "floors"), but I wanted to get feedback on whether this was a good idea, or how I could improve it to make it more fun to play.

 

[RCXGaming]

So this is a very interesting topic because I've analyzed in depth as to what makes Mario 64 fun whereas Sunshine fell flat.

What made Super Mario 64 fun is that every single star you obtain is valuable in terms of completing the game - if you can't handle doing a certain star, you can just skip it (unless you're going for 100%).

By comparison, Shine Sprites in Mario Sunshine were actually useless because endgame is actually unlocked by doing Shine 7 in every level - a supporting collectable, the Blue Coins, were similarly worthless because of this, because it doesn't matter how much you actually have/levels you do.

An RPG that uses the Mario 64 formula would be very fun due to the extra mechanics (equipment/levels/combat being more than just jump on enemy), provided it's balanced properly and that every "collectible" is helpful in some way towards activating the different thresholds of the game.

My only concern would be the balance thing, honestly, since even a semi-open game would need to be designed so the player is capable of tackling every level without necessarily doing some others. However I would still put in shortcuts that make the levels easier if you do some in a certain order, as a way to reward the player for putting in the effort of exploring.

TLDR; yes, it's a good idea as long as you don't arbitrarily limit the player.

 

[AquaEcho]

Greetings.
I've been adjusting an idea I got in order to make it more entertaining to play and hook players, and it consists in the idea that the progression of the game is similar to Super Mario 64, in the sense you start in a "floor" with some semi-open "worlds" or dungeons, where you can find some of the main collectible. Once you have enough, you can go to the "Boss Level" dungeon, which will unlock the next "floor" with its own set of slightly harder levels.
This is meant for a short game (I don't expect more than 3 "floors"), but I wanted to get feedback on whether this was a good idea, or how I could improve it to make it more fun to play.

The main issue with non-linear progression in RPGs is level scaling. The original Pokemon RBY games is non-linear after you reach Cerulean City in that you can do the gyms in any order. But because there's no level scaling the higher level gyms will be a challenge if you do them early and then the rest of the game will be a pushover because you're overleveled.

Even if you don't have "levels" per se you still have to balance difficulty so that the player isn't overwhelmed or bored from the lack of challenge by sequence breaking/doing things out of order. You'd have to somehow monitor the player's progress and adjust enemy power levels based on how much they've done.

 

[SGHarlekin]

It's really not much of an idea to be honest. Pretty much any rpg does this. Go to dungeon, (in your case semi open area.) Fight boss, collect the crystal of light, ancient artifact, medal of saint of the wigamajick, go to next semi open area. All you're essentially doing is adding a hub area with portals to various dungeons instead of the usual world map.

Aside from that you'd have to still develop a good rpg system. Combat/Experience/Gear/whatever else an rpg needs.

So tbh I don't really see how this would differ from any other rpg.

 

[kirbwarrior]

Go to dungeon, (in your case semi open area.) Fight boss, collect the crystal of light, ancient artifact, medal of saint of the wigamajick, go to next semi open area.

The major difference is how open it is; You have access to 5 levels initially (roughly a third of all possible stars), but you only need 8 vs the roughly 40 you can get. In an rpg, this would maybe be equivalent to having access to 10 dungeons and needing to beat any two of them to continue on with the other 8 being optional.

I actually suggested this as an idea awhile ago as a good way to do an open-world rpg. If you do have levels in the game, probably the best solution is to give every area a 'level rating' in case the player wants to know if they get in over their head or not. However;

Once you have enough, you can go to the "Boss Level" dungeon, which will unlock the next "floor" with its own set of slightly harder levels.

You might have already thought of your own solution in making it so each floor is a different difficulty. This would let you build around regular pacing for players that go to the next floor right away or soon after collecting enough of your 'collectible' which going around and collecting all of them might make things easier because it's akin to grinding (but with a non-grinding purpose).

 

[AquaEcho]

The major difference is how open it is; You have access to 5 levels initially (roughly a third of all possible stars), but you only need 8 vs the roughly 40 you can get. In an rpg, this would maybe be equivalent to having access to 10 dungeons and needing to beat any two of them to continue on with the other 8 being optional.

I actually suggested this as an idea awhile ago as a good way to do an open-world rpg. If you do have levels in the game, probably the best solution is to give every area a 'level rating' in case the player wants to know if they get in over their head or not. However;


You might have already thought of your own solution in making it so each floor is a different difficulty. This would let you build around regular pacing for players that go to the next floor right away or soon after collecting enough of your 'collectible' which going around and collecting all of them might make things easier because it's akin to grinding (but with a non-grinding purpose).

That just sounds like Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles' map/level progression. Collect enough tree dew and you open up three more stages which you can do in any order.

 

[kirbwarrior]

That just sounds like Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles' map/level progression. Collect enough tree dew and you open up three more stages which you can do in any order.

Well, thanks for the recommendation then Are the ratios that open in that game? I think that's one thing I like so much about SM64 is that once you've done 3 stars, you suddenly get access to far more than you need. If anything, I'd get rid of that 'tutorial' requirement in an rpg and move it to before the 'castle' if I were to keep one.

 

[AquaEcho]

Well, thanks for the recommendation then Are the ratios that open in that game? I think that's one thing I like so much about SM64 is that once you've done 3 stars, you suddenly get access to far more than you need. If anything, I'd get rid of that 'tutorial' requirement in an rpg and move it to before the 'castle' if I were to keep one.

I don't know if I'd recommend it today as it's a co-op game at its core and while you can solo it it's a lot more tedious. The original had couch co-op but with an elaborate setup where everyone needs a GBA and the remaster took out local co-op for online only where you'll probably have to find a dedicated Discord server to find people to run dungeons with. It bottlenecks you at certain points where you have to do a certain dungeon to progress, and sometimes you have to rerun old dungeons (which have harder versions to level scale with you, but ultimately the same dungeon and repetitive) to get enough tree dew to progress.

 

[The Mighty Palm]

I had a concept on the backburner similar to this. A megadungeon with multiple different biomes and a hub town. In the hub town you would accept quests from npcs and go into the megadungeon to complete them. Completing a quest earned you a medal from the town. Having enough medals ranked you up in the guild and unlocked boss quests and later sections of the dungeon. Something like that.

 

[FirestormNeos]

I don't know if I'd recommend it today as it's a co-op game at its core and while you can solo it it's a lot more tedious. The original had couch co-op but with an elaborate setup where everyone needs a GBA and the remaster took out local co-op for online only where you'll probably have to find a dedicated Discord server to find people to run dungeons with. It bottlenecks you at certain points where you have to do a certain dungeon to progress, and sometimes you have to rerun old dungeons (which have harder versions to level scale with you, but ultimately the same dungeon and repetitive) to get enough tree dew to progress.

So, in other words, someone needs to make a game that has the progression style OP was describin, but isn't burdened by tedious gameboy-peripherals/online-only bullsh*t.

 

[nbgamemaker]

sounds really fun tbh.