RPGMaker Mv's Big problem ..

Discussion in 'RPG Maker MV' started by RHachicho, Nov 28, 2017.

  1. RHachicho

    RHachicho Veteran Veteran

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    You may remember that I posted a while back about random crashes while saving. I've been hoping and praying that this problem would be addressed unfortunately in vain .. I keep getting told on this forum that this doesn't have a cause in the editor which quite frankly I am inclined to believe is total hogwash.

    I am told that crashing while saving is random and unavoidable but it's not .. the longer the editor runs the more likely a crash is to occur. And not only that About one in every ten to twenty crashes I get a corrupted json file .. Not only that but always .. without any shadow of a doubt the culprit is animations.json.

    I find it VERY difficult to believe the save crash is random when it is influenced by what you do in the editor AND the crash's damage is so predictable. It crashes right as it starts to write the animations.json file. How do I know this .. Because the "corrupted" Animations .json is empty The editor didn't crash mid write .. It tried to start the write process and crashed. Not only does this potentially lose hours of work .. Since the animation editor even in rpgmaker MV is AWFUL .. Not to mention progress just lost because it can't save .. But it could easily be worked around. I get that you can't really get around saving failing sometimes. What you need to do is allow the editor to deal with it when it does without immediately dumping all your hard work into the digital ether. A simple .. We're sorry RPGMaker save failed .. Please try again message would be FINE. Just put us back in the editor .. We'll press the button again no biggie .. But to make a failed save crash the editor is .. quite frankly horrible. And I really don't know why this isn't number one on the list of things to be addressed.

    Please reply to this topic if you have had similar experiences with RPGMaker MV Because from what I've seen just talking to fellow dev's I'm really not the only one who's angry about this. These forums have become an echo chamber where no one is allowed to discuss the elephant in the room. Rpgmaker's bugginess and grade school lever error handling and stability. We jut get told time and time again it's not precious rpgmaker's fault. But that's just .. Not .. True.

    And I can tell you with no doubt that while I may be stuck with MV on my main game. This will probably be the first .. and last game I make with rpgmaker unless something is done soon. My experience with this software has been terrible. It makes everything I do an uphill struggle. For no good reason at all.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
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  2. JGreene

    JGreene Veteran Veteran

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    What are your computer specs? Are your drivers up to date? And are you using steam or standalone?

    Sorry to ask generic questions, but usually when something crashes, these are the first places to look.
     
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  3. Andar

    Andar Veteran Veteran

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    No and yes, and I've tried to explain the cause time and time again, including why it can't be changed and why people need to start searching for the cause at the other end, namely their computers.

    All RPG Makers open their project files like a database, NOT like a regular program. That is absolutely neccessary due to the amount of data involved and can't be changed without causing a lot of other problems.

    But because they're opened for databasing access, your assumptions on the save process are completely wrong. It simply is technically impossible to give your messages "save error, try again".
    At the same time and for the same reasons the project files are at a higher risk of problems by certain types of access from other programs - one reason why trying to work a project inside a cloud folder is like playing russian roulette with your data.

    However, it is simply impossible to switch the editor to regular file access - if you were to try that, saving would require 15-20 minutes on medium size projects, and you would need double the RAM to keep the same working speed in the editor.

    So no matter what you think of it, you have to live with the disadvantages of databasing access to the files, the editor will not switch to regular file access. And that means you either have to keep your Computer more stable and prevent the file access that breaks the database files from there, or make backups more offen.

    There is no other choice.
     
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  4. LTN Games

    LTN Games Veteran Veteran

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    I have 4500+ hours of MV being open and I have not had 1 crash. My laptop is old, 2011 I Think, 500gb hdd 512mb dedicated graphic s with 6gbs ram and an i5 2.5ghz CPU. I always feel bad for those who use MV and say it's slow or crashes all the time but I laugh because my ancient laptop sounds like a turbo engine and runs MV editor and all MV games flawlessly but can t run Skyrim .
    I'm not saying this is your fault or that it does not happen but I think it's safe to say maybe something in your computer or modern computers in general are affecting the program. Maybe it's an SSD or modern graphics cards or an anti virus you use. All I know is that 4500+ hours without a single crash is something to think about when blaming MV for being the problem.
     
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  5. sura_tc

    sura_tc Loner Veteran

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    Crash during saving in editor?

    I've never encountered a crash with MV. I spent 2 years making a game and not a single crash.
     
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  6. Liquidize

    Liquidize Caffeine Overload Developer

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    Hello,

    I feel it appropriate to let you know MV actually does have exception handling when the engine fails to save. This exception handling should cause it to not crash, which means your issue isn't with saving inherently but something else. I would like to know your PC specs on the system that this issue is happening on so I can potentially find an anomaly. To acquire this information for me if you would be so kind, follow these steps below:

    1. If you are running Windows 7 or higher, go to your TaskBar.
    2. Click on, "Start Button".
    3. Click on, "Run".
    4. In the pop-up window enter DxDiag and hit ok.
    5. The DirectX Diagnostic Tool pop-up window should appear.
    6. Click on, "Save all information".
    7. "Save As" window should be present.
    8. Click on, "Save" (The file should be saved to your desktop as DxDiag.txt)
    9. Exit the DirectX Diagnostic Tool.
    10. Use Pastebin and copy the contents the of saved file to that website to "Create a new paste."
    11. Post the link to that paste in the bug report, or if you aren't comfortable with the world knowing your PC specs, Private Message @Liquidize .

    Also, have you tried running the engine as Administrator? While it seems unlikely, it may be the cause.

    - Liquidize
     
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  7. Shaz

    Shaz Veteran Veteran

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    I've never had the editor crash on me while saving. I've had the whole thing turn white when I don't use it for a certain time, but I've discovered resizing the window (not minimizing and maximizing, but actually setting it to window mode and making the window smaller or larger) fixes that. It does take an extremely long time to save even the most basic project, which is annoying. But it's never crashed.
     
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  8. mlogan

    mlogan Global Moderators Global Mod

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    I don't think that's true at all. Just because you are not getting the answer you are wanting does not mean discussion on it is not allowed.

    I'm not going to sit here and pretend I know why it's happening to you, I don't have that kind of knowledge, though Andar gave a good response.

    And while I can imagine it's incredibly frustrating, I am curious, as I've not seen this problem posted on here (I'm not saying it hasn't been at all, I've just not noticed it), how many other developers have you talked to that have had this problem? How many other computers have you tried to run MV on and was it successful? What HAVE you tried on your end to see if there just might be something there that could fix the issue? I'm honestly curious, because knowing how frequently this problem occurs, what the specs on computers where this is happening are, and what things don't work can all go towards someone being able to help with this issue.
     
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  9. Sleepy Kitten Games

    Sleepy Kitten Games Veteran Veteran

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    @RHachicho
    I've been using MV since it came out, and the closest I've come to having your experience is when my computer has decided to shut itself off while MV is running (so in this case it was my computer that crashed, bringing MV down with it). When that happens, yes, sometimes my data does get corrupted. Yes, it's extremely frustrating to work on something for hours and hours and suddenly get the message that it can't read the files because they've been wiped clean. But that's why I've started doing weekly backups, especially after weeks where I've made a lot of progress towards something. Sometimes I'll make multiple backups in one week.
    Though I've never had MV crash while it was saving. Sure, sometimes it'll take a bit longer to save, but that's the fault of my computer, not MV. So it's entirely possible that the crashing is something to do with your computer, something that you might not even be aware of. It might be antivirus/antimalware, it might be Steam cloud (I've heard that putting an in-progress RM game onto Steam cloud can be really bad for the game), it might be file writing privileges, or it might be something else entirely.
     
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  10. RHachicho

    RHachicho Veteran Veteran

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    I've tried running MV on four different computers .. The save crashing occurs at different rates .. But it always happens. It changes depending on what drive the game is on too. But no hard drive is immune. I've tried it in both Windows 7 and Windows 10 .. Always crashes. It's the steam version since that's what i own. And I've talked to five other developers .. All people who stopped using Rpgmaker MV because of problems either exactly the same or similar to the ones I describe. All of them tried to get help. All of them left these forums and RPG Maker in general with bitter experiences of an uncaring community that didn't seem to care as long as a majority of users didn't experience problems. All of them either switched to Unity or Ren'Py .. And frankly don't assume I don't make backups .. I don't make weekly backups .. I make DAILY backups. It's become a necessity .. And I back up animations.json in particular now every time I work on it. Because I know the next time that corruption hits .. It's always going to be that dayum file. I've used other game development software before. None of it has the problems rpgmaker has. This means I rarely lose more than an hour of progress .. But every time I sit down .. I'm basically rolling a dice as to whether or not any of my work will matter .. And that's soul crushing.

    Here's the pastebin link .. If you can find something wrong then fine I'll admit I'm wrong. But I've asked for help on this forum about five times. And the only answer I ever got on this forum was .. Welp it must be your computer .. It's got nuthin to do with us. I'm open to the idea of a fix my end. But I'm not tech savvy enough to do that on my own. In the end it just felt like I was being ignored because I was bringing up inconvenient problems. Especially since many other developers shared my exact same experience with these forums and with rpgmaker. So either it's terrible support or terrible coding .. One of the two.

     
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  11. LTN Games

    LTN Games Veteran Veteran

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    It's not about being right or wrong when it comes to MV crashes or support in general. It's not about pointing fingers and talking down to the only community that can help you either. It's not your fault MV crashes and there is no blame on you if it happens to be missing drivers or bad hardware.
    What should be focused on, is the facts, the hardware and MV.
    I mentioned I had 4500 hours of MV opened using the steam version on Windows with my crappy specs. This was not to make it seem your wrong it was to show you that there are others out there who have had 0 problems just as you mention there are those who stopped MV because of the crashes. So there is a clear fact that yes for some people it will crash and for others it does not.

    There is a large difference between my hardware and your hardware specifically the hdd, ram and graphics card. My guess is new hardware specifically graphics and hard drives could be the cause of many crashes.
    I don't know the specifics but no one in this community is paid to help and many people here take time out of there day to help others here, when it comes to crashes and hardware it's one of the hardest bugs to track, everyone's system is different so be patient and have a normal conversation without thinking there is anyone to blame for the problems you have. Let's find a solution togather and not cause division with the community that helps freely.
     
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  12. mlogan

    mlogan Global Moderators Global Mod

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    It's not that no one cares - it's just when it's an issue that happens to such a relatively small percentage of users, it's hard to know how to help, not to mention, there are so few people here who actually COULD do something about it.

    It's nowhere near LTN's time, but for example, I have almost 500 hours on the Steam version, over 2 different computers, and I've never encountered this issue. So, it would suggest to me, that it is something in MV that interacts with certain computer specs. Now, whether that's something that can be resolved on your end or would need to be resolved on the development end, I have no idea.

    I'm just trying to point out that just because the vast majority of members here are unable to give you an answer, it doesn't mean this is a hateful, uncaring community.
     
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  13. sura_tc

    sura_tc Loner Veteran

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    I run (Steam) MV on 2 computers.

    My steam says I have 2809 hours on MV and I have never run into crashing or saving which makes me say that it is your issue rather than MV's.

    And I am not sure why you keep saying this is an uncaring community. If majority of people are not experiencing issues, there are less chances to actually help you. And it does seem like an isolated issue which would be really hard to crack down.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
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  14. RHachicho

    RHachicho Veteran Veteran

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    No one on the forums is paid to help then why's it a support forum? All I'm hearing is a lot of talk about how I'm supposed to be grateful or polite or respectable or something and not a lot of fixing my problem. If rpgmaker just doesn't provide any technical support then that's just even worse. I'm fed up of being told to stop being rude when I have problems with the software through no fault of my own .. And I receive no support. If I'm not going to complain on the rpg maker MV SUPPORT forum then where the hell am I supposed to complain? I'll be all the shades of appreciative you want after someone helps me fix my problem. I've had to make four separate forum posts just to get a response from a developer at all.

    Okay so there might be problems causing rpgmaker to crash .. But if those problems only occur under specific circumstances of hardware .. Doesn't that mean the crashes AREN'T inevitable .. As I have been told before? And doesn't that mean that there is a way to fix it? Either from the editor's side or mine either way I don't want lectures I want HELP. This is why the people I've talked to gave up on trying to get MV to work. I'm not on the RPGMaker's support forums to be lectured at in what I should or shouldn't be angry about or expect. I was polite the first time I asked for help .. This is the FIFTH. I am done being polite. If the people running this place really just expects all the users to solve each other's problems for free and has no paid tech support on these forums then that's garbage .. And deserves a completely different angry post all on it's own. I used to be a rather active user on the forums. But it's stuff like this that made me stop. There are a lot of helpful people here when it comes to how to USE rpgmaker. But when it comes to a need for actual technical support the voices have been oddly silent so far. So far the closest I've gotten to tech support is a developer asking me to post my DxDiag. You want me to shut up and eat humble pie? The route to that is very very clear.

    Help .. Me .. Solve .. My .. Problem.

    Then I will eat all the humble pie you like.

    Also running the engine as admin is one of the first things I tried. Believe it or not I didn't just come straight to the forums to post an angry rant. Admin mode or not makes absolutely NO difference to the crash or their rate of occurance. The only thing that somewhat lowered the rate of crashing was moving the project from my SSD to a normal drive.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
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  15. RHachicho

    RHachicho Veteran Veteran

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    As expected .. No one wants to help. I don't know what I even bother asking anymore.
     
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  16. Andar

    Andar Veteran Veteran

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    No, you misunderstood
    We want to help, but we can not help without knowing more about your computer and how you use it.
    As long as you deny that fact and refuse to give us more info as to what on your computer might cause these crashes, we can do nothing.

    If you want help, then post Screenshots of your software control (the one from Windows itself) and describe how you usually work with your Computer (do you shutdown regularly or cut off the power, do you have a power connector with a main switch that cuts power to both Computer and monitor and use that switch, how many and which programs do you usually have open when working with RMMV) and so on.
     
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  17. Windows i7

    Windows i7 Veteran Veteran

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    Any possibility you could get me a minidump file from the crashes? I might be able to at least offer some insight into the issue if so.
     
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  18. RHachicho

    RHachicho Veteran Veteran

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    Well here's a funny story. About 2 weeks after I kicked up this stink. There was a tiny patch for MV and .. lo and behold .. I don't crash anymore XD It looks like the devs took my dxdiag and at least put it to good use. I don't know why they wouldn't just TELL me that. But it's been a loooong time since the last crash. I am extremely grateful the problem was fixed. Whether on purpose or by coincidence. I can't tell you how grateful I am to the person that finally addressed that issue. Whatever it was. I remain wary but fingers crossed I can develop in relative peace now.
     
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  19. Shaz

    Shaz Veteran Veteran

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    I am not aware of any updates within the last 2 months, and they don't sneak out updates - they announce them as those with standalone programs have to get them manually.

    There HAVE been a lot of Windows updates within the last 2 months.

    Are you sure that didn't have something to do with it?
     
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  20. Leon Kennedy

    Leon Kennedy Restaff Novice Restaff

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    Have about half the power of your computer at 2.3ghz and never had a problem....with any release as far as crashes. But good your problem is solved now, I think you may need to head to the introduction part and apologize possibly but maybe not up to you. @Shaz Same here unless he manually updated to latest version of mv not sure what he means by this "mini patch".
     
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