RTP-made games not commercially viable?

[Samsonite]

I like the default content that comes with RPG Maker VX Ace. I've read in a few threads that say you should make or pay money for someone to make custom music, visuals, etc. to make your game more successful. I don't subscribe to that notion. Games are made great, not by how they look, but how they play.

The best games sell because of their playability, challenge, story, and enjoyment factor.

My opinion is heavily influenced by my love of the classic RPG's on NES and SNES. I love the oldschool graphics with the characters and the maps and the battle system.

Are people really that biased over an RTP-looking game?

Have I misunderstood what people are talking about when they say "RTP"?

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

It depends on your target market... If your market are people who use RM, you probably won't sell RTP only games unless they are so good... The same if the market is infested with those kiddos that only look at graphics, they'll simply ignore or bash the game...

now if you're catering with loyal RM/RPG gamers or the casual gamers, it would be different, you can probably sell an RTP only game, but of course I think only a few of them, if all of your games for sale are RTP only, I think they might get bored too (they might even think something like "His last few RTP games made quite the money, can't he spend a bit on custom resources?")

and ultimately, I don't think it's wise to expect to sell an RTP only game for a high price

RTP = default resources that comes with RM

 

[Archeia]

It depends where you are selling. In other communities, they couldn't care less much about if you use RTP graphics. It might confuse them at first, but from what I've seen in Amaranth and stuff, not really.

 

[Indinera]

It also depends on the definition you give to "RTP-made". 100% RTP? Just the tilesets? Just the sounds? A blend of RTP and custom resources? What about the database and script section?

 

[Shaz]

As with all of these questions, it's not so much WHAT graphics and resources you use, but HOW you use them.


You can make a piece of art with RTP graphics, and a load of rubbish with completely unique, custom graphics. Learn how to use them, and use them well, and you'll be doing yourself a huge favour.


Throwing money at custom resources is NOT necessarily going to make your game sell more copies.


If you have money to spend, start with a custom title screen, sprites and portraits for your main characters, and some audio tracks that you'll hear a lot through the game.

 

[Andar]

The main problem is that there are a lot of free games of variable quality (some good, some of rather low quality) made with the RTP-elements, because RTP is free and a lot of the people using it aren't artists.

The problem is not that the RTP is bad, the problem is that you have to prove the quality of your game against that background if you want players to pay for your game.

That is easier if you sell where the player's don't know about those other games, or if you "spice up" the RTP with your own grafics.

You can also go by using a good story or a new form of implementation and still sell your game with only RTP - but in that case, you'll need more advertising/reviews to praise your game to get sales from a community that has seen a lot of bad RTP-based games. And this means that the sales will start slower in this community, and only go up if the quality is really good.

 

[kerbonklin]

Good Game + Custom Resources = Best

Good Game + RTP = Okay

Bad Game + Custom Resources = Meh try again

Bad Game + RTP = Bro did you even try?

Honestly anyone who knows the RTP understands how limited it can be. And forcing to limit yourself a lot doesn't make you amazing. (unless it's on a competitive level but that's a totally different topic)

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

though the only question was that will it sell or not, being good or best is something else... I've actually seen bad games sell...

Honestly anyone who knows the RTP understands how limited it can be. And forcing to limit yourself a lot doesn't make you amazing. (unless it's on a competitive level but that's a totally different topic)

Which is why you only use that for selling to communities who don't know the RTP (i.e. to non-RM users)

 

[SomaelCK]

As with all of these questions, it's not so much WHAT graphics and resources you use, but HOW you use them.

You can make a piece of art with RTP graphics, and a load of rubbish with completely unique, custom graphics. Learn how to use them, and use them well, and you'll be doing yourself a huge favour.

Throwing money at custom resources is NOT necessarily going to make your game sell more copies.

If you have money to spend, start with a custom title screen, sprites and portraits for your main characters, and some audio tracks that you'll hear a lot through the game.

Amen to that.

As long as you make a good overall game design, your game will sell, RTP or not. I may be wrong but it's the game design that attract the people.

 

[Samsonite]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone.  You've pointed out a lot of things to consider and a lot of things to educate myself on.

I'm not an artist, don't know how to code or use script, can't make my own music, and will be totally relying on everything that comes with RM. I don't even know if I'd make a game to sell, just interested in the idea of it all.

I'm excited to just make a game like the RPG's I grew up with on the NES and SNES.

In the months ahead I look forward to making and testing my own RPG.

 

[amerk]

I may sound like a broken record, but I'll repeat the same thing many have said multiple times because I believe it's sound advice.

"It's not what you use, but how you use them."

Just getting something custom is not going to make your game any better than the default if you can't map worth a damn.

I've seen and played some excellent RTP-made games with very high visual appeal. I can still pick up and play any game that has the RTP, and if it's used exceptionally well, I'll still be impressed by the work and effort put into the game. Likewise, I've seen and played several custom-designed games that were extremely horrible.

Now obviously custom made material (or at least material that's not as overused) that's used well is probably going to outshine a game with defaults that's used just as well. But the key point here is to know what you are using, and know how to use them. If you learn to master the default, you'll have better success at using more unique and custom made resources.

The exception is music. There's a stock load of music available all throughout the internet, many of which are free for commercial use, many you can buy real cheap in the store, and most of which sounds better than the default RTP. So for music, it's just a matter of having a keen ear and knowing how to use the best material for the best scenes while blending the effect of music pitch and tone and track changes with your other surrounding scenes. So outside of really liking some of the RTP tracks, there's no reason to use the RTP music, especially if it's a track you're not particularly fond of.

 

[Indrah]

The sad, sad truth: custom, flashy graphics will help you stand out. It goes with visuals and presentation. You can scream at the skies all you want that your story or gameplay is the bomb, but if the users don't even feel compelled to try out the game your perfect story or gameplay don't stand a chance.

As for generic resources: using them as IS tends to be restrictive and a bit plain (some pieces are jsut a bit too "meh" as they come) but it's enough material to provide a very healthy base for edits and similar adjustements, more than enough to make a decent game. Building FROM the rtp is totally fine, using it explicitly and without change may have some trouble unless you're a very good functional mapper and make it work just right (but still, have some splices of original/edited rtp will still make your stuff stand out from similar games at first glance).

So, feel free to start off the provided rtp resources, but don't be afraid to edit stuff. Just don't use "only rtp" because of laziness. There's thosand of pre-made edits already.

(Seriously, you have no idea how a simple recolor can change the tired out rtp visuals, you have no excuse.)

As for specific pieces: tiles tend to be easier to accept, rpt characters used as main characters feel extremely tired out (you can somewhat get over this if the characters are written awesome, but even then people will see "generic hero #3" and not be too interested at first glance).

Tl:dr: using the rtp as a baseline is fine, but remember to have enough highlights (character graphics, special tiles for context-specific parts of your maps, boss monsters, the title screen,etc) so that it doesn't feel like such a plain affair.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

yeah, for char sprites, a simple good use of the generator can do wonders as compared to using the default sprites... and technically, it was still RTP based...

 

[Dalph]

As long as the game is good, who the hell cares about graphics?

Even simple RTP can look good when in proper hands....trust me.

 

[orochii]

I want to ask, what "commercially viable" means for you? Any game can sell. Even if it's a piece of crap, with proper propaganda everything sells. Like the last Alien game

When making a game, you make an estimate of how much money you will invest (even if it's only the 70 bucks of the RMVXA, AND bills -light, etc-, food... these cost too). After that, you can talk about how viable is your game. If you can recover what you spent, it is at least sustentable, and the incomes, for investing them on a next game and make it "way more awesome!" (and after some time you will be rich!!!).

But anyway, RTP certainly doesn't makes a game be automatically worse (less if you take it and improve it, or use it in a unique manner), BUT has an impact on how people sees your game. As someone pointed out, if you use graphics that aren't... well... unique, your game will be compared to other games every specific person has seen. Also there is the fact that you will be obstaculized. If there is no Monster666 overworld graphic... use one of those vanilla lights. Can you sleep at night after trimming your ideas so much? :'C. J/K.

And there is the prejudice too, which sadly will never cease, because consumers are diverse (but anyway, you can expect to not care at all because diversity favours you too). If they know about RPG Maker (or even if not, but know/recognize the RTP), they will know you didn't invested on that aspect, so you need to make them know the game has work and effort on the rest of aspects. After all, you will need to SHOW them where and how your game excels. So, it is actually a visual matter, until they can taste the game personally.

There is a lot of facts, and a lot of things to consider, but if you want to use RTP, then do so. If you can afford custom graphics, do so. If you want a text-based adventure, do so (again I'm digressing! dammit!).

Salut,

OZ

PD.: A personal rant, but I hate when people refer to old games, whose had this graphical limitation. They had no limit at all. Except on hardware. Graphics were and ARE fine. It's just this "academic current" where "new games" are so "technologic", and "olds" look "so bad". This causes me an urge to eat tacos with duct tape"."

 

[SLEEP]

I don't like the way people frame this topic as "people won't buy RTP games because they're only interested in flashy graphics". If we take away the point that people only interested in current-gen top of the line graphics aren't interested in 2D RPGs in the first place, and the fact that a different visual style that's not RTP isn't necessarily more or less flashy, then we're left without a reason but a pointless attack on consumers.

Aesthetics are key to the game experience. There's a reason we on these forums aren't developing Twine games... or at least not the same Twine games as we are RPG maker games. Aesthetics colour our impressions quickly and coherently. If you've ever been on a game dev topic and scrolled right to the screenshots, you've shown concern about aesthetics. And while the RTP can be made to look nice, it's still somebody else's graphic style. It looks like other games out there, and so how do you prove to a consumer it's "different" and unlike those other things they've seen with these graphics? The RTP also has associations with beginner rpg maker games, like only someone new to the software would use these tools right out of the can, not those who expect to sell.

However, there are some RTP games that look quite nice. There's also some games which use heavily customized RTP assets that look and sell quite well, see To the Moon. Using an original style doesn't mean throwing the RTP out and starting from scratch, it just means putting some effort in and making the RTP your own, something you use because you're passionate about making it work for you! There's several RTP's to do this with, can't make the default work? What about the DS resource packs? The XP RTP? Celianna's upcoming pack too, by the looks of it. Don't let the RTP define your look, remix, butcher, and edit it until it's the graphics you want to use, until you've defined it's look. Learn to edit graphics, or commission somebody to help you. If you're making a game with graphics, any graphics at all, then make it visually it's own! ...and then, i'll probably pick it up.

dunno. I've seen a few uncustomized rtp games sell about the amount i'd expect them too, not mega-profits, but just.... the amount i'd expect..

PS: Don't use the RTP music, or at least remix it thoroughly, like the graphics.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

There's several RTP's to do this with, can't make the default work? What about the DS resource packs? The XP RTP? Celianna's upcoming pack too, by the looks of it.

Though those are custom resource packs already and not the "RTP"...


anyway I think it's quite clear that most of us are saying about not using the RTP directly, as is, but doing edits of it etc

 

[SLEEP]

I guess I did word things badly. RTP replacements or something would have been a better word.

It depends on the grade of the edits, I suppose if you just recoloured a few things here are there you wouldn't be changing the RTP significantly, or in a way that makes it yours. If you populated towns with characters made in the generator, rather than RTP characters, it wouldn't feel that different. As I said, you've gotta make it work for you, not the other way around. If your overall aesthetic is restricted by the RTP, and not liberated by it, that's not appealing, and it depends on your attitude what you get out of it! 

 

[seita]

The sad, sad truth: custom, flashy graphics will help you stand out. It goes with visuals and presentation. You can scream at the skies all you want that your story or gameplay is the bomb, but if the users don't even feel compelled to try out the game your perfect story or gameplay don't stand a chance.

...

Tl:dr: using the rtp as a baseline is fine, but remember to have enough highlights (character graphics, special tiles for context-specific parts of your maps, boss monsters, the title screen,etc) so that it doesn't feel like such a plain affair.

This. It's the same principle for all games really. The visuals are there to hook the player into playing the game. Once they start playing it, the rest kicks in.

 

[Samsonite]

I want to ask, what "commercially viable" means for you?

If it will sell well. And if it will sell or sell well compared to unique-looking games or games with user-created resources.

You've all given me a lot of great info to consider and have more than answered my question.

I didn't even consider selling a game I might make when I first downloaded RPG Maker VX Ace a few days ago. Then I thought that if I made a game that I thought was good I might post it for sale or for free to see if other people liked it too.

It will take months before I have something, but it's fun to think about a finished product.