RTP maps outside RPG maker allowed?

Status
Not open for further replies.

JohnDoeNews

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
91
Reaction score
47
First Language
Dutch
Primarily Uses
RMMV
1 simple question:

When I make a map with RTP, then upload that map into another app to use with a non-rpgmaker community, is it violating EULA?

Someone told me this was totally okay, but if I read EULA it seems like that is against the agreement.

So, just to make sure and get rid of all doubt, and more to avoid a yes/no discussion, I thought I ask it here.
 

Wavelength

Pre-Merge Boot
Global Mod
Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Messages
4,612
Reaction score
3,864
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
Thanks for asking. Yes, unfortunately you'd be in violation of the EULA if you took a map you created in RPG Maker (or using assets from RPG Maker) and then used that map in a game that is created in a different game engine.
 

JohnDoeNews

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
91
Reaction score
47
First Language
Dutch
Primarily Uses
RMMV
Thank you very much. This is what I thought, but when I told someone, they got cocky with me. They do not believe me, or choose to just ignore my warning.

Thank for clearing this up, though. (I knew I wasn't crazy) :D

Late happy 2020!

Edit: Here is the original issue. A guy uses RPG maker maps to make roll20 campaigns. I told them they can't do that, so I was stupid and should play with my crayons... That didn't stroke me the right way, so I told him to F off. Surely I got reported right away.
Since he rather fights me than take my word for it, here is his topic on steam:
 
Last edited:

Shaz

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Messages
38,467
Reaction score
12,018
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
Some people will believe what they want to believe, and ignore anything that tells them they can't do what they want. Good on you for getting an official answer rather than just someone's opinion.
 

JohnDoeNews

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
91
Reaction score
47
First Language
Dutch
Primarily Uses
RMMV
Some people will believe what they want to believe, and ignore anything that tells them they can't do what they want. Good on you for getting an official answer rather than just someone's opinion.
Thanks, I guess. :p I don't even need to know for myself. I am not planning on using roll20 or something.

The problem is, I am part of FB groups and discord servers, where new and inexperienced users trust in my expertise. Therefor I do need to know if I am wrong. It would be bad if I told someone they could do something, which later on gets them in trouble.

Also... I liked to rub that brats nose in the fact that he was all cocky and arrogant, while he was just plain wrong and I was right. :D
 
Last edited:

Wavelength

Pre-Merge Boot
Global Mod
Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Messages
4,612
Reaction score
3,864
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
Edit: Here is the original issue. A guy uses RPG maker maps to make roll20 campaigns. I told them they can't do that, so I was stupid and should play with my crayons... That didn't stroke me the right way, so I told him to F off. Surely I got reported right away.
Since he rather fights me than take my word for it, here is his topic on steam:
Just to add a bit of interesting context, purely Personal Use (meaning that you are not distributing it in any way, and also not making money from it in any way) does tend to tip the scale a bit further toward the idea of "Fair Use". Fair Use is a tough legal concept to explain, but an easy example is how you are allowed to sing a song while you browse the aisles at a market, without worrying about copyright infringement or paying royalties to the author of the song.

If someone were to print out a map they made on RPG Maker and use it as a prop for a D&D campaign they are running with friends, I assure you that Degica will not come after them for doing so. Same with a student using an RPG Maker map in a project for a 10th grade History class.

However, I am not sure whether this same concept applies to Roll20. If they are storing the map or campaign there in a way that anyone visiting Roll20 (not just their own friends/group of players) could find and access, I'd say that's probably a violation of the EULA that is not protected by Fair Use. If the map is only being temporarily displayed to the players over the Roll20 interface (not stored), and only his friends/group of players can ever see it, I'd say your frenemy is probably okay.
 

Andar

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Messages
29,230
Reaction score
6,769
First Language
German
Primarily Uses
RMMV
@Wavelength unfortunately you're wrong, using RTP for gamemaps or roll20 can never be fair use.
The reason is that fair use is only allowed for a number of specific purposes, for example education or parody (there are a few others but those would even be less fitting with game material).
"having fun gaming" is not a purpose covered by fair use.

EDIT: And roll20 would be distributing it in addition to that because roll20 is playing over the internet. Doesn't matter if it is only with a few people, legally it would count as distributing.

@JohnDoeNews there are some tilesets available in the shop of this site that are available for "any maker". If someone was to purchase those (especially during a sale), then those can legally be used like you described.
However the RTP itself is restricted to "RPG-maker-only" - and that restriction is absolute. Nothing of the RTP is allowed to be used outside the RPG-Maker-engines.
 

JohnDoeNews

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
91
Reaction score
47
First Language
Dutch
Primarily Uses
RMMV
@Wavelength unfortunately you're wrong, using RTP for gamemaps or roll20 can never be fair use.
The reason is that fair use is only allowed for a number of specific purposes, for example education or parody (there are a few others but those would even be less fitting with game material).
"having fun gaming" is not a purpose covered by fair use.

EDIT: And roll20 would be distributing it in addition to that because roll20 is playing over the internet. Doesn't matter if it is only with a few people, legally it would count as distributing.
I think Wavelength is using 2 terms equally,while they are not the same. There is "own use" and "fair use".
Own use, is for example: When you pain Mickey Mouse on your daughter babyroom wall, disney can not sue you.
Fair use, is for example: When you make a news item about Mickey Mouse, and you show its portrait for a short period.

When it comes to own use, copyrights are useless. Everyone may steel your design and copy it, as long as they do not share it. This includes giving it to friends.

@JohnDoeNews there are some tilesets available in the shop of this site that are available for "any maker". If someone was to purchase those (especially during a sale), then those can legally be used like you described.
However the RTP itself is restricted to "RPG-maker-only" - and that restriction is absolute. Nothing of the RTP is allowed to be used outside the RPG-Maker-engines.
Indeed. Not all assets available are bound to RPG maker. However, like Wavelength said in his 1st reply, maps made in MV are not supposed to be used outside RPG maker. That is at least how I always did read the EULA.

Anyhow. My warning towards the steam poster, was focused on RTP.

Thanks for thinking along though.
 

DorkLord

10th Level Google Mage
Veteran
Joined
Aug 1, 2013
Messages
47
Reaction score
26
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
N/A
Thank you very much. This is what I thought, but when I told someone, they got cocky with me. They do not believe me, or choose to just ignore my warning.

Thank for clearing this up, though. (I knew I wasn't crazy) :D

Late happy 2020!

Edit: Here is the original issue. A guy uses RPG maker maps to make roll20 campaigns. I told them they can't do that, so I was stupid and should play with my crayons... That didn't stroke me the right way, so I told him to F off. Surely I got reported right away.
Since he rather fights me than take my word for it, here is his topic on steam:
A user on the RPG Maker Steam forums, that you say "got cocky with you" said that he was using RPG Maker for a D&D campaign map on Roll20 which is a platform for hosting D&D games, not another game making engine or a game to sell. You stated that you reported him for "stealing assets" and you called him a "thief", "little prick" who was "running to mommy" and told him "f*** off noob."


The user is not distributing raw assets but a rendered map that he created using RPG Maker. Furthermore, the user never stated that he was using the default RTP, you just assumed that. I would encourage the moderation team to get some further guidance on this from Degica.

@JohnDoeNews/BigFatX, I would also encourage you to consider if your posts on the RPG Maker Steam forums are in the spirit of the RPG community, helping, encouraging and constructive. Those posts definitely were not.
 

Windows i7

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
351
Reaction score
1,079
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
This includes giving it to friends.
Actually, as soon as you do that you're distributing. The identity or relation of the person receiving it does not matter. Think of it like this. When you buy a game, you're paying for a license to play that game. The files for that game are licensed to you for personal use. You are not allowed to share those files unless the license explicitly says you can (in the case of commercial games, it generally won't). So if you were to make a copy of the files, and give them to your friend you would be violating copyright because you were not granted the right or permission to distribute copies of those files.
 

JohnDoeNews

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
91
Reaction score
47
First Language
Dutch
Primarily Uses
RMMV
@JohnDoeNews/BigFatX, I would also encourage you to consider if your posts on the RPG Maker Steam forums are in the spirit of the RPG community, helping, encouraging and constructive. Those posts definitely were not.
I was trying to be helpful, and then I got an attitude thrown in my face. Then I just got pissed.

Why did I lose my cool, though? Well, here it is:
  • I tried to inform the guy, and the guy gave me an attitude: I didn't know anything and had to keep quiet.
  • I didn't like that, so I wanted to show I knew something, and asked here if I was right.
  • First reply was, of a mod, telling me I was indeed right.
  • They (by now there were more people meddling) didn't believe me.
  • So I told him to F-off.

    I was done there. Unsubscribed and didn't plan on answering again.

  • Next day, I get a warning from steam. I was reported after I left the convo.
  • At the same time, after I left, they kept coming at me.
  • They kept calling me out, and when I reply on it, they tell me I can't let it go...
This is where I lost my cool and gave them all I got. Was that smart? Probably not. But it happened.

But one question... If you got spit if the face for it... Would you not spit back?

Thanks for putting me down and unhelpful, discouraging and destructive... Literally all I do in every free hour, is help noob users. Day in, day out, in the weekends, on facebook, steam and discord. But I guess you just saw the one post where I lost my cool. So thanks for that. (Y)

I am going to take a long, looooooong break as a 1-on-1 help beacon. Doubt I will ever go back to actually teaching for free. I guess I will redirect everyone back to the fora and the lunatic server. (Where they do not feel in place, that is why they come to me.) I am going to work my own project from now on. I plan on releasing end of 2021, so... Guess I'll be back in 2 years or so.
 

MushroomCake28

KAMO Studio
Moderator
Joined
Nov 18, 2015
Messages
2,229
Reaction score
3,590
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
Andar is right about fair use. As a law student, I have a thread going into more details about legal issues that come with game making (accessible through my signature link, or the pinned thread in the general discussion subforum). Anyways, here's the part on fair use:

Q: What about fair use? Is that a way to use a copyrighted asset without permission?

A: Fair use is indeed a counter-balancing force to copyrights that allow someone to use a copyrighted material without the permission of the copyright holder if certain conditions are met. I highly doubt there ever be a justified case of fair use in a commercial game though, even most non-commercial games. Also note that Fair Use is a US thing, incorporated to copyright laws in the US. There is something similar in Canada called Fair Dealing. But for all other jurisdictions, I cannot say if there is something similar to fair use and fair dealing.

Anyways, here's the disposition:
17 U.S.C. § 107
Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include—
  1. the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
  2. the nature of the copyrighted work;
  3. the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
  4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
Note that those factors aren't part of a test where each of them must be passed. Factors are simply things to take into consideration while determining if fair use is applicable or not, and it's all about balancing the factors.

TLDR: Fair Use most likely won't apply in the context of game making.
 

JohnDoeNews

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
91
Reaction score
47
First Language
Dutch
Primarily Uses
RMMV
Andar is right about fair use.
I know, we all agreed on it. :p No-one was arguing on that part. Haha.
Anyhow... Is it maybe possible you close (or remove) this topic?
Since you're a mod and all :p

This is being done and dealt with, and I am getting pretty sick about it.
I don't need any reminders, don't need more people coming telling me
what they all think I did wrong. It is like 20 to 1, and no-one seems to
understand that is pissing people off to the extreme.
 

Andar

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Messages
29,230
Reaction score
6,769
First Language
German
Primarily Uses
RMMV
@JohnDoeNews
the official procedure is that the OP reports his own topic to be closed when solved, so just hit the report button on the first post and ask for it to be closed
 

MushroomCake28

KAMO Studio
Moderator
Joined
Nov 18, 2015
Messages
2,229
Reaction score
3,590
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
Well then, I'll close the thread at OP's request in this case. Just know that next time it's easier to click the report button and requesting the thread to be closed :D

This thread is being closed, due to being solved. If for some reason you would like this thread re-opened, please report this post and leave a message why. Thank you.

 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Latest Threads

Latest Profile Posts

As for the Coronavirus? Well: "People that spend their life avoiding death are already dead (they're also rich, and I like to spend my life with their money.)"
- R. Sanchez, "Edge of Tomorty: Rick, Die, Repeat"
making pierogi and corrupting my game files wbu
Trying to regain my will to work on maps T_T
I miss working in rpgmaker but I can only do one thing at a time. Maybe after drawing lessons I can come back.
Ever have a day like... you play minesweeper and your very first click is always a mine?

Forum statistics

Threads
94,340
Messages
920,075
Members
124,100
Latest member
Vulgourso
Top