Run, They're Trying To Kill Us! (Escaping from Battle)

[Omnimental]

In an effort to reduce the feeling of "everything is a fight to the death", I've been setting my random encounters to have monsters be significantly more likely to run away as their HP gets lower. The problem I quickly ran into while testing it is that monsters running is intensely frustrating for the player, as they don't get any loot or experience from escaped creatures. Which led me to wondering how other people treat the concept of creatures running from battle. Do you allow it? Why or why not? What other methods could you employ to ensure that not every fight the PCs go through is a race to 0 hit points?


Personally, I've been debating adding a "Pacified" state so that afflicted enemies decrease their loot drops but increase the experience gained from the fight. I also want to make it so the party stills gains some experience from enemies that run away. (No, I don't really have any idea on how to make that work in MV. Any suggestions would be appreciated)

 

[taarna23]

I don't really have anything against monsters running away - it makes sense, actually. But most games don't reward the player in any way for this happening, no matter how long the battle was, or how much damage inflicted. It's going through the trouble for one of those danged random battles and getting absolutely nothing for it.


Perhaps try arranging partial XP for the players, and maybe fleeing enemies may drop items - maybe even different ones than normal.

 

[Omnimental]

Partial experience is definitely something worth looking at. I'd probably also add some form of item or skill for the player to use to prevent escaping as well, so they have the option. Making it a feature that the player can engage in instead of a mechanic they have zero control over seems best.

 

[Alexander Amnell]

  I like the idea of enemies dropping items when they run, it makes sense from a technical perspective that when someone ' is running for their lives' that they aren't going to be thinking of securing their equipment at the time, and from a mechanics perspective you could increase the drop chance of items (I'd probably 100% normal items to give players something for their time, and give rare drops a boost as well) from fleeing enemies to offset the fact that the party doesn't get killing experience from them.


   Also like the idea of making sure the player has a skill to bind them or break legs or whatever is needed to prevent them from running. That way when players are in new areas and already barely surviving, they have a way to stop enemies from using guerilla tactics to bleed them near death then run and at the same time players are given the option to spare enemies by holding back their best skills, incentivizing them with items but allowing them to show mercy whenever they want as well. People love stuff like that in games, maybe could even add content to the mechanic by letting subbosses spared reappear elsewhere, both as tougher enemies or maybe once as a reformed madman who'll direct you to a secret passage bypassing the labyrinth of doom later on in the game instead of chasing you in there for an hour of irritation like is colleagues still want to do.

 

[Wavelength]

See, I'd go the other way and give the player Experience but not items if an enemy escapes.  After all, you still fought the enemy and reasonably could become stronger or smarter by having done so - but it's unlikely you're going to get any of their stuff unless they literally drop it in their haste.  It's a bit silly to award no EXP if you don't outright kill an enemy, unless EXP are literally little objects that pop out of a monster when you kill it and are absorbed into your body.  It wouldn't be too hard to implement this with some easy scripting/coding; you could check the enemy troop's total experience at the beginning of the fight and use that value to substitute in for the amount the game would give you at the end of the battle.


As far as it being frustrating for players when enemies escape - you're making a good point, and what I'd suggest to correct for this is to give players a chance to prevent the escape.  The most natural, second-nature way I can think of to do this would be to have (enemy, or maybe all) escapes in your game not be instant.  Instead, the enemy uses a move that indicates they have started to escape (possibly indicated via a State "able to escape").  They remain in the battle, and next turn they use the actual escape skill with 100% chance.  If the player wants to ensure that this enemy doesn't escape, she can have her characters wail on that enemy to kill it before it gets away, or use a skill that prevents actions such as Paralyze (which should also remove the "able to escape" state).  If the player is fine with the enemy escaping, she can use the turn to focus on the enemies that are still a threat, etc.  I think it's pretty clean, and fun.


(If you want to, from there, you can make it even richer by also ending the escape if an enemy takes X amount of hits or damage during this time, and creating skills that can "scare" the enemy into wanting to escape even if their HP is not that low - but even the basic "1 turn before escape" system will remove most of the frustration from escapes and add some fun strategy.)

 

[Omnimental]

@Wavelength I love the idea of a "preparing to run" state. Giving the player that window to decide whether to try to finish them off quickly, trap them, or let them go is a good one.


@Alexander Amnell I think whether or not they drop items would depend on the creature in question. Animals shouldn't drop loot, since you'd assume most of the items you acquire off of them is scavenged from their bodies, but I can see tool-using enemies dropping their stuff in the process of escaping.

 

[Dr. Delibird]

Also you could instead do it so that if the average level of the party is X amount or higher than the average level of the troop (or a hidden variable if your enemies don't have levels) then they will try and escape or run after the first turn in battle (to signify that the party is probably so strong they can one shot all of the enemies anyways or at least kill most of them).

 

[Canini]

Perhaps there could be some sort of trapping skill that can be used to prevent enemies from escaping? At early points in the game enemies would not escape as often (which would make sense, the hero would be a fair bit weaker) but as the game goes on the enemy would escape more and more often, making the skill necessary.

 

[Oddball]

how bout instead of exp for winning, you gain exp per hit. and the monsters have a chance to drop loot when they run. i mean, it makes sense they might drop something accidently or to make themselves lighter and faster

 

[Mary]

I like the idea for the ability to prevent monsters from running, if you do that, make sure some specific high level monster could do that to the player too!

 

[Vermin_89]

I'm not sure on the mechanics of your game in particular, but something like a capturing system could be implemented.


Example, three bandits and a war hound attack the player. One bandit is killed, one flees, one surrenders, and the war hound is incapacitated.


The dead bandit gives full XP as well as loot.


The one that fled gives half XP and a chance at loot (Not sure how easy that could be implemented from a eventing/scripting standpoint.


The one that surrendered becomes a prisoner who can be sold to a slave trader/bounty hunter for a nice chunk of cash. (Giving an incentive to not just murder every foe)


And the war hound becomes captured, and perhaps could be trained until it is loyal to the player, or sold to an interested NPC (Like the captured bandit)


This could go nicely with certain classes getting certain skills. One class can trap enemies preventing escape, or certain skills could lower morale causing weaker foes to surrender.


Just some random ideas, but I think it could make smaller fights more interesting, with more interesting options.

 

[Oddball]

@Vermin_89: personally, i wouldnt play a game that glorifies human trafficking. Thats a serious issue that plauges our world today, and frankley i want no part in it

 

[HexMozart88]

@Oddball Um... I don't think they meant to make it dark like that... (laughs nervously)

 

[Vermin_89]

@Oddball Yeah, my comment was in no way attempting to glorify human trafficking, and you know that. No more than playing Skyrim glorifies breaking and entering and contract killing. I was just throwing out some random ideas I had, not trying to serve some dark pro-slavery agenda. Though I would point out, there are lots of games that give players the moral choice of something like slavery, or have slavery incorporated into the game, that show that it can be done, for lack of better word, "tastefully". Fallout, Morrowind, Mount and Blade, and even non RPG games like Europa Universalis all have slavery incorporated into them. Again, it can be done without glorification, to help paint the theme of a dark, imperfect world, or even to display the unfortunate reality of human nature. I am not at all defending slavery in real life, and not even in video games. i just don't think most moral absolutes works in video games.


And personally, just like movies or books, I don't mind certain dark tones. We don't live in a perfect world, and I don't want my virtual ones to be utopia's either, that sounds kind of boring. How many great RPG games exist out there where we can make horrible moral choices for the players benefit? How many RPG's start with a players hometown being massacred? Entire Kingdom's wiped out? An evil supernatural foe who's sole purpose seems to be the genocide of the civilized world?


I won't comment anymore on this topic, as I do not want to further derail it (I apologize for ranting off topic to begin with, but I don't like it being suggested that I want to glorify human trafficking), but I always find it odd when people, and I assume yourself, are fine with games featuring gangsters, assassins, burglars, committing acts of  cold-blooded murder, thievery, car jacking, and even prostitution in some cases. But suddenly I throw out that maybe a random NPC who trades in captured criminals, and that is suddenly too far, and you then you take a moral high ground.

 

[HexMozart88]

@Vermin_89 Even though you don't wish to post anymore in this topic, some of the things you have said are worth replying to, just for the sake of this topic. 


First of all, I don't think it's necessarily glorifying human trafficking. Just because it is used in a video game does not mean it is being glorified. it could be like, the main character is blindly following the evils of his country. 


Next, I doubt @Oddball was suggesting having no dark themes in the game whatsoever, they were just against making these dark things look good. Though most RPGs, actually, most games, for that matter, glorify war. They make it look fine, and that's still an issue today. 


Finally, half the time, I don't think people even pay attention to what their games are even about. As long as it's fun, it can have the darkest themes known to man. That goes with anything. Look at all the anime with mindless killing (Mirai Nikki, Another, etc.) and those are apparently fine. If it really bothers you to have an NPC who buys criminals, why not make it a theme in the game? Your protagonist could say something like, "They're criminals. But, why then, does it feel so wrong to sell them like this?" 


And, you don't know when the OP's game takes place. If it's a really long time ago, a system like that would be completely appropriate considering the things people used to do. 


Anyway, back on topic, the idea of taking a prisoner makes sense as far as story, but technically, it'd be up to you to implement it. I like the idea of XP per hit too. Or if you want, you can take the amount of time in battle in minutes multiplied by the amount of turns and have that be your total amount of XP.  

 

[Oddball]

if they take the amount of time and turns, couldnt people just stall forever for lots of exp?


i know its a bit off topic, but it shows my point. in fire emblem awakening, in the chapter you get olivia i had whole turns where all i did was have her dance. i did this till her level was maxed out and i could reclass her as an advanced class with a second seal

 

[HexMozart88]

if they take the amount of time and turns, couldn't people just stall forever for lots of exp?

Hadn't thought of that. But I guess you could damage on the enemy instead. 

 

[Oddball]

Hadn't thought of that. But I guess you could damage on the enemy instead. 

actually, now that i think about it. turns could work if there was a cap on it. or maybe it would only count if certain skills were used. just for those situations when you have to stall for a turn or two