Scared of copyright

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Vaschak, May 25, 2019.

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  1. MushroomCake28

    MushroomCake28 KAMO Studio Veteran

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    So to recap: it's illegal, but you'll probably be fine as long as it doesn't become popular. So it's a question of morality: do you care that it's illegal or not? (knowing that nothing will happen probably).

    @Sharm Actually not really. If you made a mega-man, Capcom could theoretically sue you for copyright infringement and ask the court to either:
    1. Shut down and destroy your game.
    2. Claim your game as theirs.
    3. Take your revenues from your game.
    4. To charge you punitive fees (rarely happens, usually have to prove bad faith).
    That's an extreme case since Capcom would have to take you to court, and in reality it costs so much money and time that companies only sue for big stuff, not little fan games.

    What you describe for fan art copyrights is more a kind to interpretation of an art piece. Example: if I record a piano song which company A holds the copyright to, I still have to get company's A permission. If I get the permission, my recording's copyright will belong to me, but the song's copyright still belong to company A.

    Well, at least that's how the copyright laws work in most western countries.
     
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  2. Red Metal

    Red Metal Metal Head Veteran

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    Screw it.
    Release the project and wipe all your identity from it just to gauge from afar.
    Have a backup plan if you ever need to claim it back.
    Can't take a ghost to court.
     
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  3. Marquise*

    Marquise* Veteran Veteran

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    I really was unsure what to think about fan work in here as I know when I see them Pokemon, Dragon Ball and My Little Pony are copyrighted. I always wonders how comes some are not afraid to show their work on that in here? Same with music work reprising old 8-bit tunes.

    (Just had myself a big scare for stock imagery and myself using free resources as base layer when making my own on top just to be certain everything is well centered and occupying the right amount of space)
     
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  4. Kes

    Kes Global Moderators Global Mod

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    @Red85Metal There are 2 issues with your suggestion.

    The first is that you are in effect suggesting that people steal the work of another. Consider the following analogy (and like all analogies it is not exact). You personally write a paper for your degree course. You put a lot of work into it, do your research, go through several drafts to get it just right. You submit it and it is counted towards your degree. Someone comes along, takes a copy of your paper and submits that for their own degree at another university. You could say that it doesn't affect you, you have your degree already. But most people would be pretty angry about it.

    But back to the actual case in hand - rips. To rip the work of another is to be a parasite on the back of someone else's work. If they hadn't made the effort, you would have nothing.

    So you are suggesting that people happily become thieves and parasites. In my personal experience, most people would not wish to be identified that way.

    Now maybe my opinion is coloured by the fact that I know custom music and graphics have been ripped from at least a couple of my games and turned up elsewhere. I lack the resources to do much about it. That does not mean that I am happy for it to happen.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
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  5. Red Metal

    Red Metal Metal Head Veteran

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    Hello Kes.
    Let me start by saying I feel for you and the many others in this situation, and you've got me wrong.

    I am not suggesting people become parasites and thieves. I can see how you could take it that way, by considering how I chose to word my suggestion it's a bit far fetched to say i was implying that too.
    Good job as a moderator though, I mean, If you took what I said that way then how many others would do the same. No I'm not being funny. Theft is not an acceptable way to go and the theft of someone's hard work and effort is frankly evil. Being a creator of sorts I definitely have strong feeling about this too.

    I suggest releasing the project as people are doing this anyway. In the case in which someone has created something using parts of other peoples design. Preferably what you should do, obviously, is not release it. But If, for whatever reason, you should need to release it. You should wipe all your identity from it. Covering yourself and retracting ownership and therefore credit to the project.

    You may need to have it available online just for friends to access or maybe you are like I said, gauging something. Personally I will not release my projects for any reason as I am too a culprit or "thief" in many ways. But I suppose not an evil one?
    My project is for myself and my kids ONLY. It is based around all of our interests and incorporates many influences from my addiction to predators and xenomorphs to my little pony and silly kids stuff. In our efforts to make our "perfect" game. This is where I suppose I say there is I very fine line between what is theft and what is entertainment.

    People will be doing this anyway, whether in a non threatening fashion or not. Myself included. But I suggest if you need to make it public, be smart.
     
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  6. VisitorsFromDreams

    VisitorsFromDreams Veteran Veteran

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    BRB Calling the police!
     
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  7. SolonWise

    SolonWise The Lonely Maker Veteran

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    Can I use this topic to make another question about copyright? Im making a game with only one map, for the challenge. I think you all know about it. So, I need to use a tavern image, and I just found a perfect one on google. Problem is, I cannot find the original author of this image, and there is a lot of different sites using it, in different sizes and different colors. So, my game is non comercial and I DO intend to put it for free download. Am I going to jail if I use this image? The forum's moredator will take my thread off with the link of the game?
     
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  8. MushroomCake28

    MushroomCake28 KAMO Studio Veteran

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    @SolonWise Lol you aren't going to jail, relax. 99.99% nothing will happen, worst case you'l just have to take your game down. Even if nothing happens, it doesn't mean it is legal, so it basically comes down to your morality: do you care or not that it isn't legal?

    If you can't find the original author and can't find the terms of usage of that image, assume it is copyrighted. However, there are some free to use images, or royalty free images on the internet that can be used by anyone for anything (except to sell directly usually). If everyone is using it online, and they seem from pretty serious businesses, perhaps that image is royalty free, but you should always confirm before assuming.
     
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  9. SolonWise

    SolonWise The Lonely Maker Veteran

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    @MushroomCake28 Well, as a libertarian, I take my morality quite seriously, but I really do not belive in intellectual property, what don't means that I will not respect the rules of this forums or the law itself. The only thing I think a man cannot do in these cases is saying that he is the original author of the image, music or game. Now, using it in a RPG Maker game is not big deal, and I don't feel that my morality is stained by doing that. :)
     
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  10. Red Metal

    Red Metal Metal Head Veteran

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    It all depends on intent I suppose, not that knowledged on the matter.
    If you were to properly credit people where you can and maybe even state the materials you could not find authors of. I suppose that shows good intent.
    Make sure you don't make others think you created said materials.
     
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  11. MushroomCake28

    MushroomCake28 KAMO Studio Veteran

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    @SolonWise @Red85Metal Make no mistake, I'm simply stating the legal position as a current law student. No matte the intent, either if it's commercial or not, a breach of copyright is a breach of copyright. That said, intellectual property is a passive right, meaning that the burden is on the holder of the copyright to come forward and claim his right. The chances of the actual author finding your game and then sending you a cease and desist letter is near 0. However, that doesn't mean that theoretically what you're doing (assuming that image isn't royalty free or free to use) is legal, it just means that in practice there will be no legal consequence since it's not up to the police or the government to check copyright infringement, but it's up to the owner of the copyright (thus why it's called a passive right).

    To be clear on the "good intent" or "good faith" aspect, it doesn't affect in the least the judge when evaluating if it's a breach of copyright or not. However, good intent plays a big part in determining the sentencing, meaning punishment/reparation. Someone who had good intention might only have to take down his work, modify it, or give part of his revenues to the owner of the copyright, but someone who acted based on bad faith might have to pay some punitive damage on top of it, or sometimes there's even criminal charges (criminal lawsuits must prove the breach of copyright AND bad intention, unlike civil lawsuits that only need to prove breach of copyright and not the intention of the defendant).
     
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  12. Red Metal

    Red Metal Metal Head Veteran

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    Thanks MushroomCake your depth of expertise on this is reassuring. I'm still dead set on hiding my project though! lol.
    They will never get me MWAHAHAHA!!!
     
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  13. MushroomCake28

    MushroomCake28 KAMO Studio Veteran

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    @Red85Metal Hahaha, like I said it's illegal, but nothing will happen. As a future lawyer I can't (legally) recommend doing it, but realistically no one will care and nothing will happen lol, especially if you keep it free and among friends. Unless you're getting Nintendo resources... they're the most ruthless company when it comes to copyright and they're set on destroying everyone that uses them. Even I find them a bit excessive...
     
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  14. Kupotepo

    Kupotepo Fantasy realist Veteran

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    Copyright law is a deferent type of law which discourage others from borrowing useful arts or invention's ideas without permission to benefit from their works of authorship (Yes, everything is about money because everyone needs money). If there is not copyright law, people would just steal ideas claims as to their own and no one wouldn't spend their time and their money again to be creative. (So it is like of social and economic impact) The Copyright Office is an office of record, so anyone could just claim to be original authorship.:LZSsmile: When facts and opinions become the same thing, we are all lost from that. (Philosophy of Reality)
    An ethical law has a logical and explanation of why it does exist. :kaothx:

    Functions of the Copyright Office (US)
    The mission of the Copyright Office is to promote creativity by administering and sustaining an effective national copyright system. While the purpose of the copyright system has always been to promote creativity in society.

    You can read the logic of copyright law here: (Better than my words for sure):guffaw:
    https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1a.html
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
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  15. Red Metal

    Red Metal Metal Head Veteran

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    If my brain had a capacity, I'd choose what I fill it with.

    I'm good thanks. :thumbsup-left:

    What little I know is enough for me.
     
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  16. Kupotepo

    Kupotepo Fantasy realist Veteran

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    :kaohi:@Red85Metal, ok, I am just posting, so others can read the logic of the law. Agree or disagree with the law, it is none of my business. I also took a class on the legal aspect of the law, so I have a little knowledge of the law. @MushroomCake28 is better understanding than me for sure. :kaojoy:
     
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  17. SolonWise

    SolonWise The Lonely Maker Veteran

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    I don't know if I agree with that. Like I said, no man can claim the ownership of an idea that is not his, but in a libertarian etic, there is nothing wrong in use other people ideas because the original author do not lose the ownership of that idea. It's like piracy. If I download a movie illegaly, the hollywood studio did'n lost anything, the movie is still theirs. And nobody can say that hollywood lost money due to the people that watched it from illegal sources, cause this would imply that these people would, without a doubt, watch it in the movie theaters in case they cannot watch it in a different way.

    About creativity, I think people would make effort to be even more creative in case we take copyright laws of the picture, because today, if someone create an original and rentable movie, game, book or anything like that, he can just relax and live with the money from this work forever. Other people will not have the right to work on this idea and try to even improve it. Take Sonic the Hedgehog, for instance. Imagine if I create a really good Sonic game, with all the characters owned by Sega. Sega itself didn't lost the "idea". Sonic is still their creation, and I cannot say that Sonic is mine. I just made a game. That way, everybody would have to be more creative, and all the time, because now, your name as an artist is more important than ever. Instead of your product, your name would be the important part of your job, and if an artist do not improve himself all the time, other people will take his place. About gaining money, I think different ways of making money with ideas will be born. Maybe the crowdfunding would be a common sense, and everybody would help their favourite artists, otherwise they will not be able to create more art.

    I know it is a very complicated subject, but I will always respect the rules about the resources found in this forum, and I will not use forbidden material in my RPG Maker projects,. I just wanted to show a different opinion about copyright.
     
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  18. Red Metal

    Red Metal Metal Head Veteran

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    @SolonWise, Unfortunately we don't exist in that world, and even if in another reality we operated differently so, even after thousands of years of working though the trials and kinks and evolving society around such structures. I think... we would more than likely still have as many problems.

    In our present day there are just too many sides of this argument, I am sure there are people who lost out because people ripped their ideas. Also I'm sure there are people who get ripped off by ridiculous rules and policies. I am sure the systems are in place for reasons, and I am sure as hell they suck and are not thoroughly thought through.

    Simply put, we are not evolved enough. And this is the best we have got...

    I can see how people would take your "out of the box" thinking. And I'm sure I know the different ways they could dissect what you said, and have good reasons behind their opinion. I for one am more of a tribalistic primal theorist and believe that the "Monetary System" and extreme independent mentality are to blame. Everyone is wired so uniquely and individually in nature's mutated experimental evolution. Plus Humanity has rapidly accelerated unnatural evolution diversifying the minds more so. And Technology advances at an alarming accelerated rate. Stop there... and think about how a hive works... and how individualism and monetary value mean nothing. I'm not saying we should all evolve into xenomorphs. But I thinks there is something to alternative thinking, even if it can seem radical and anarchistic.
    Again, we would just have to work out the kinks...

    Fast forward...
    Humanity is about to evolve into its final stage. I say final because we aint invited.
    Metamorphosis has already begun as singularity takes effect.
    We all know where this is going. And fighting over petty dramas (of other peoples creation) and worrying about primitive rules is evidently futile, yet we all still do it eh?
     
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  19. Sharm

    Sharm Pixel Tile Artist Veteran

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    I'm not going to argue about the value of the law, but I would like to point out that market saturation and branding is a real thing with a huge impact on sales, even on a small scale where even an artist who draws something new every day and tries to make a living doing it may not be able when copyright is ignored. This is something that I have personal experience with too, with both sides of the law and the results of those actions. Anyway, I wanted to point it out because it's an aspect that often gets ignored in these sorts of discussions.
     
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  20. Kupotepo

    Kupotepo Fantasy realist Veteran

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    I agree with your statement, but some people used those stuff and claims as themselves as a creator. That is when the problem arises. Note: people cannot copyright simply ideas, food recipes, and common words. I like Creative Common too.:kaojoy:

    @MushroomCake28, please help me explain which items can be copyrightable.

    People do lie as some company has stolen Yanfly plugin and sell them recently discovered. They justified the Yanfly plugin did not work as they intended and they changed plugin a little bit, so they claim as a creator. Slippy slope right.
    You can ask Sega for a licensing right and you do a contract with them. Sega is a Japanese multinational video game developer and publisher headquartered in Tokyo. lol, I am sure that Sega CEO, Chairman, and President are not the creative type. They hired artists, programmers, marketers, and accountants to work for them. (Yeah, it is not happening in a dramatic form. It happens slowly.)

    @Sharm is one person and she is an artist. She makes a living off that. You see a different business model.
    a Self employ business and a Corporation are different sadly.

    Local business is about making money if it is not making money, it will go bankrupt. Simple, no game of thorn right @watermark.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2019
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