Scripters vs Artists

[sabao]

Another reason is probably that there have been too many pirated resources - as everyone can see on the forum, every other month we get a new topic asking how to prevent people from pirating the work done on a RM-Game.

Here's the thing though: Ten years ago, no one would have even cared about anyone else picking around their projects because you couldn't encrypt your games in the first place. Now we have so much talk about protecting ideas and resources because, I don't know, suddenly everyone's a professional out to make a profit because they think their idea is the next Final Fantasy.

I'm spitballing. Whatever the reason is, I've found most of the community now's more concerned about their own games than much else. Or maybe the community's just grown a lot more discerning. Games around here don't get much attention unless they're absolutely outstanding. Most everything else seems to be passed over.

 

[Tsukihime]

Haven't seen this angle yet: it's much easier to "copy" a script idea and release it as a new script without getting called out for plagiarism. It is much more difficult to "copy" a work of art and not have it deleted for stealing.


I don't know how many different ways there are to execute a single piece of "art idea" but with scripts, a simple change in the way you require input or a new feature is a new script in itself, even if everything else is the same. This is because the end-user (usually) only cares about what the script provides, and not how it's written.

 

[Berylstone]

Haven't seen this angle yet: it's much easier to "copy" a script idea and release it as a new script without getting called out for plagiarism. It is much more difficult to "copy" a work of art and not have it deleted for stealing.

Very true.  It is also a lot easier to adapt an existing script into your own projects rather then trying to adapt someone else's art.  Uniformity is almost impossible to achieve with graphics unless the artist is prepared to encompass the whole of your game personally.  Otherwise you are going to wind up with bits and pieces of different art-styles through-out your game.

 

[XinChao]

I'll contradict you Shaz.   I find scripting extremely tedious and dull.

These sorts of differences in game making communities aren't uncommon, it's often just based on what sort of things attract more artist or more programmers than others and what tends to get community attention because of the type of game being created.  This is probably the most balanced one I've seen between artists, programmers and writers, usually it's much more slanted.  The VN community, for example, is much more weighted towards artists.  Adventure Games are more likely to get jacks of all trades.  Places that lean heavily towards pixel art tend to have artist who are also decent amateur programmers with almost no writers.  I have yet to find the game making community that has a lot of background artists.  I'm not in a point in my game where I'm looking for musicians so I haven't paid much attention, but they seem to be a small but active presence in any game making community.

The resources aren't just found in the resources subsection, there's also members+ and restaff and the product releases.  Were those counted as well?  (I'm ill today, I refuse to check myself, normally I would.)

Being an artist or scripter more into personal preference. I tend to lean more to visual than game play, however a game with great visual but redundant gameplay won't make a cut and vice versa. Therefore, a great game must have both. And that would be difficult to achieve. I don't see many RMmaker  have both.

So, most people forced into a choice, become a good artist or become a good scripter. I personal think It is harder to become good artist, because that require some visual talent. It is also harder for one artist copy another artist style, because the art attach to the artist and any copy/inspire would be visible. while scripter is different story, you can have two scripts identical with slightly different features, for example, Shadows and Lightning, you have script from Wortana, Victor,...etc.

My love for artist.

 

[Silent Darkness]

Well, that stinks.

I wish I had any art skills to go with a basic understanding of the scripting language Dx

 

[amerk]

Here's the thing though: Ten years ago, no one would have even cared about anyone else picking around their projects because you couldn't encrypt your games in the first place. Now we have so much talk about protecting ideas and resources because, I don't know, suddenly everyone's a professional out to make a profit because they think their idea is the next Final Fantasy.

With the coming of Ace came a new age of commercial wannabe's. I have no qualms about commercial development, as long as the developer is a pro at their trade, and their is an audience to whom he/she is selling for.

However, the market is now saturated with amateur developers who, like you said, believe they have the next best thing to Final Fantasy. Having seen several of these commercial-driven endeavors, I'd venture to say the majority of these game developers have never designed a game in their life and have no idea what they are trying to do. In fact, a lot of the freeware games I've seen and played are of better quality than some of the drivel being pushed out for profit.

What this does in turn is hurts the true commercial developers, because they now have to fight through a surge of under-developed, poorly made games to prove theirs is much better. And for most people, once you've seen a dozen of shoddy "for profit" RM games, you're likely to begin thinking that's how they all are.

Commercial development has been around as long as RMXP, but it wasn't until Ace came along that the shift from hobbyist to commerical became so strong. Before then, resources were plentiful, feedback and reviews were in constant numbers, and building an RM game wasn't such a chore.

 

[Berylstone]

With the coming of Ace came a new age of commercial wannabe's. I have no qualms about commercial development, as long as the developer is a pro at their trade, and their is an audience to whom he/she is selling for.

However, the market is now saturated with amateur developers who, like you said, believe they have the next best thing to Final Fantasy. Having seen several of these commercial-driven endeavors, I'd venture to say the majority of these game developers have never designed a game in their life and have no idea what they are trying to do. In fact, a lot of the freeware games I've seen and played are of better quality than some of the drivel being pushed out for profit.

What this does in turn is hurts the true commercial developers, because they now have to fight through a surge of under-developed, poorly made games to prove theirs is much better. And for most people, once you've seen a dozen of shoddy "for profit" RM games, you're likely to begin thinking that's how they all are.

Commercial development has been around as long as RMXP, but it wasn't until Ace came along that the shift from hobbyist to commerical became so strong. Before then, resources were plentiful, feedback and reviews were in constant numbers, and building an RM game wasn't such a chore.

I'm of a differing opinion.

I generally believe the more accessible a market is the better.  This is especially true when it comes to forms of art/entertainment like video games since there are no significant safety concerns that need to be regulated.  

An influx of amateur games (even if you find most of them to be poorly made) shouldn't hinder quality projects.  If no one likes these games then no one will buy them.  And if no one buys them they won't be very competitive and their impact on the market should be negligible.  So I don't see the harm.  As an example: there are a lot of terrible books out there.  But that doesn't stop great books from being written and profiting as a result.  

Also I have played dozens of games designed by rich and experienced commercial enterprises that I thought was awful as well.  I could assume - based on that experience - they must all be like that.  Nothing can prevent people from making inaccurate generalizations based on their own experiences.  So that isn't a fair criticism to say just of amateur developers in my humble opinion.

I would like to pay a special attention to this statement you made:  In fact, a lot of the freeware games I've seen and played are of better quality than some of the drivel being pushed out for profit.  Because I have seen this come up quite a bit on these forums.

Creating commercial games as an amateur is a lot of work.  They typically do not have the resources or the staff that people working in the actual industry would have.  So you need to take that into account.  Spending hours and hours every day for months and years creating a game needs to be compensated.  Else many of us (myself included) won't find the effort worth the sacrifices.  

 

[sabao]

We're shooting a little off-topic here. I'm of the opinion that regardless of whether it's year 2000 or 2014, there have always been a large number of users making poorly made games with disproportional expectations latched on to them. I don't see that as a problem. I only initially brought the matter of commercializing up in relation to this topic because I believe the recent rise in interest in developing commercially may be hurting activity not only in the graphics section, but in the variety of scripts available for Ace as compared to VX or XP.

There's a rise in preference in keeping resources private now as opposed to sharing in previous years, back when going commercial with RM was illegal. That may be a reason in the decline in activity in the graphics section which was primarily put there for sharing resources. It's not gotten so bad that it's a problem, there are still plenty of resources around to get people by. It's probably just not as much as it used to be.

 

[Galenmereth]

There's a rise in preference in keeping resources private now as opposed to sharing in previous years, back when going commercial with RM was illegal. That may be a reason in the decline in activity in the graphics section which was primarily put there for sharing resources. It's not gotten so bad that it's a problem, there are still plenty of resources around to get people by. It's probably just not as much as it used to be.

I think that's a good point. Sharing culture in general has changed over the past ten years, too. While open source software has seen a dramatic rise in popularity and activity, other areas have seen a decline. Perhaps there's even a connection between the fact that it's easier than ever to get started making software and games, and because of this, resources like visuals and art in general (including music) is what makes people stand out, and so people feel more reluctant to share it. Combined with people wanting to make a living out of making games themselves, sharing takes a back seat to business.

Personally I know I don't want game making to be something I do "9 to 5". I couldn't do it if it was my only way of income to put food on the table - barring the extremely rare occurrence of a phenomenon happening and one reaches Minecraft levels of money, thus making it so you can make games without worrying about income, at least for a while.

So my plan is to give back once I'm done, by releasing art assets (that are completely mine) for free. RTP modifications I'm actually sharing as I make them (look in my signature), because those are modified RTP assets which I feel kind of obligated to share immediately. I really do like giving back to communities that give me so much help free of charge, in any way I can

 

[deaddrift]

what a great thread!!!

i just finished reading the whole thing and im really glad i did

im primarily an artist, so this refreshing to me that there is a community here that value both the technical scripting geniuses and amazing artists that want to create games!!!

we should all be happy we can work together to have fun and maybe make something great

I actually wish i knew half the stuff an average scripter here knows, in fact im trying to learn now (thats why i signed up for the forums)- but as others before me in this thread have already summarized perfectly is that it takes BOTH compelling gameplay mechanics/engine and striking, original artwork and music to make a truly great game

i hope to meet some of both types here, fellow artists/musicians and some of the genius scripters- id be happy to help with someones project art/music wise once i get my feet on the ground here and actually start my own project!

until then, good luck to all of you on your ideas and games!

 

[orochii]

as others before me in this thread have already summarized perfectly is that it takes BOTH compelling gameplay mechanics/engine and striking, original artwork and music to make a truly great game

Amen!

I hope you take a try and make scripts! At least for basic editing stuff it's not hard, you just need to understand the language, and the logic behind it (which is not different from the eventing, except for the OO part -eventing is a scripting language by itself, at least from a certain perspective-). After that, it's all just practice, and learning from other's coding.

...Actually it is pretty similar to learning spriting/drawing/whatevering. Editing->taking the step to "making from ground-up"->practice->repeat last one till death.

Anyway, here goes my encouragement beam!!! "<=================O,

Orochii Zouveleki