RMMZ Sempiternal

[kimo]

@Lady_JJ
Glad to see you made it here. The battle system for this game takes some getting used to, but after several hours of play, I think I finally have it figured out. Also, the story line is occasionally a bit difficult to follow. I think that mystery is a bit intentional.

@Reinarc
Is the most recent version available for download now? I'm interested in trying the new "Barrier" variants.

I realized the Alter function would work best if both the current skill effects as well as original skill effect appeared during a "mouse over" like the icon explanations. I don't know if I made that clear in an earlier comment.

And you are now warned that @Lady_JJ is even more observant than I am. And I didn't comment on early issues because I did not know how long I might want to play this game.

 

[Reinarc]

@Lady_JJ
Glad to see you made it here. The battle system for this game takes some getting used to, but after several hours of play, I think I finally have it figured out. Also, the story line is occasionally a bit difficult to follow. I think that mystery is a bit intentional.

@Reinarc
Is the most recent version available for download now? I'm interested in trying the new "Barrier" variants.

I realized the Alter function would work best if both the current skill effects as well as original skill effect appeared during a "mouse over" like the icon explanations. I don't know if I made that clear in an earlier comment.

And you are now warned that @Lady_JJ is even more observant than I am. And I didn't comment on early issues because I did not know how long I might want to play this game.

Negative. It will be available tonight. I need to play test a bit after work. Possibly tomorrow depending on how busy my day is.

Unfortunately no such plugin exists for MZ that I’m aware of. But I will work on adding a description of the original skill when you want to revert.

Yes the mystery is intentional. The goal for the demo was to get interested in the characters. I’ll send you a message when I have it uploaded.

 

[Lady_JJ]

Okay, I've spent a couple of hours in the Hrelda Cave. These battles are tough, not impossible, but tough. As near as I can figure it, you've got to hit an enemy with one element first, then pelt with the opposite element for 3 rounds. I'm glad I finally got that ice sword so Aarlin can one-two with either Quentin or Kara. And that sleeper crossbow really comes in handy when I have to dash outside and heal/replenish MP with not-so-strong baddies. I did trigger the scene with that big spider, but, yeah, my poor characters weren't up for that, so I've been beating up everybody else and experimenting with all the choices.... SO many choices.... It's all good, though. I haven't seen the rude mage again. I'm hoping I can save her just to humble her a bit.

Just a small misspelling to report-

Spoiler: Aarlin has another vision just before cave exit

As it enters the creatures stomach
should be creature's

Going to try facing that spider again.

 

[Reinarc]

You've gotten pretty far, nice! As for the mechanics, almost. If you attack an enemy with an elemental spell, like Aarlin's Overhead Strike (a single target variety), then they will have "Wind Reveal." They take extra wind damage for 3 turns. You can hit them with the opposite element to inflict a status and restore MP (that stuff is listed in skill description). Thanks for playing so much of the demo

I'm wondering if I renamed reveal to something else if it would be more intuitive.

"Wind Reveal" vs "Wind Expose" or "Weakness: Wind." You all will have to let me know what you think.

 

[kimo]

@Lady_JJ
That spider took me 20 minutes to defeat. I found that Aarlin's Ice Sword combined with Kara's Ice Reveal worked well. Once an element is "revealed", the enemy becomes weak to that element for several turns. But, after a few turns the enemy has a resist to the element and you should use a different element for long battles. Later in the game, there is a Lightning/water combo with other characters that is similar.

@Reinarc
You've seen my comments about confusion with the words Reveal and Aggravate, so I'll not comment further.

BUT, what's the trick in defeating the Pride Mage? Other than doing it quickly before he flattens the party, do I need to find something to make it easier ... maybe a rainbow flag?
Or is level 12-13 too low? Should I push all the flames in the beginning or wait until the game tells me his hunger is increasing?

 

[Reinarc]

@Lady_JJ
That spider took me 20 minutes to defeat. I found that Aarlin's Ice Sword combined with Kara's Ice Reveal worked well. Once an element is "revealed", the enemy becomes weak to that element for several turns. But, after a few turns the enemy has a resist to the element and you should use a different element for long battles. Later in the game, there is a Lightning/water combo with other characters that is similar.

@Reinarc
You've seen my comments about confusion with the words Reveal and Aggravate, so I'll not comment further.

BUT, what's the trick in defeating the Pride Mage? Other than doing it quickly before he flattens the party, do I need to find something to make it easier ... maybe a rainbow flag?
Or is level 12-13 too low? Should I push all the flames in the beginning or wait until the game tells me his hunger is increasing?

You have to time it out. Once the aoe damage becomes unbearable you push a torch to reset it. The tooltip for Push talks about that. I think the ramping damage of Hunger and the tooltip together are enough to piece together the mechanic. I don’t want to spell every single thing out, that takes away from the enjoyment of playing.
Quintens aoe barrier is helpful again, and Aarlins prayer can help you stay on top of the damage if you give him the magic sword and a robe (Kara can tank the single hits with a targe).

 

[kimo]

@Reinarc
Thanks for the advice. I'll see how that works.

I just discovered the "Return" function of a Revert Crystal. That should be documented.

Below is a Revert skill issue where Overhead Strike cannot be restored to it's original form when reverting from Sweeping Strike.

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[Lady_JJ]

You've gotten pretty far, nice! As for the mechanics, almost. If you attack an enemy with an elemental spell, like Aarlin's Overhead Strike (a single target variety), then they will have "Wind Reveal." They take extra wind damage for 3 turns. You can hit them with the opposite element to inflict a status and restore MP (that stuff is listed in skill description). Thanks for playing so much of the demo

I'm wondering if I renamed reveal to something else if it would be more intuitive.

"Wind Reveal" vs "Wind Expose" or "Weakness: Wind." You all will have to let me know what you think.

I think you documented it just fine. I just didn't explain it well. My strategy is earth damage from Kara, then ice damage from Aarlin, for both the state and the MP replenish, ice from Kara, ice from Aarlin, etc. for the 3 turns. Quentin either physical or heal, whichever is needed. Or, fire from Quentin, followed with repeated wind from Aarlin and Quentin and Kara with physical. That works well for me most times. What I hadn't explored, and I definitely needed with that spider, was Aarlin's focus that stuns for 3 turns and Quentin's barrier on all just before the spider's two big earth attacks. So keeping up the attack but also keeping HP and MP at high enough levels is a challenge. It's been a fun, not easy by any means, but fun challenge thus far. @kimo , 20 minutes was about right, but at least everyone survived.

I wouldn't change the Reveal and Aggravate terms right now. Two reasons. One, there's no need because people are either going to 'get it' right away or they won't. Changing the terms won't help. Two, if you change these terms midstream like this, you're bound to forget one or more places in the story where these old terms will show up and that will cause more confusion. It just takes a bit of practice to get the hang of it. That's not a bad thing.

BTW, I didn't find the rude mage again. I found some new areas to explore, but she's just gone. One exit is blocked by a rock (southeast corner of one of the areas to the right of the main area). Maybe I was too late?

Edit

Spoiler: Bug in Outcast Camp-Witch's Game

The counter appears to be off. The game ends after just 3 people are interrogated. If you go to visit the 4th unvisited outcast, the dialogue plays out just as though the witch were present, but of course she isn't as you already have the stone. Happens whichever 3 you choose, so that's why I think the counter is set at 3 rather than 4.

 

[kimo]

@Lady_JJ
The rude mage is gone, but "she" has the key you need. I never saw her again.

@Reinarc
Finished the demo and some things like voices behind a door I assume will be part of the game's future. The quest log seems lacking at this point in advising what to do next after defeating the Pride Mage.

Thanks to @Cythera I used an slightly adapted approach than the first time through this battle, and that Painted Helmet item helped keep Aarlin as the primary target.

Here are a lot of screen shots from Jordstown to the tower:

Spoiler

Is the attribute supposed to be stacked?

Spoiler

Lots of passability issues in this area between white lines

Spoiler

Passability up through arrow and on top of ceiling tiles.

Spoiler

Passability up mirror and on top of roof tiles again.

Spoiler

Passability issue with table and the stairs cannot be used.

Spoiler

Aark Pass. Passability not set correctly for this tree icon in every instance on this map. Can walk on top.

Spoiler

Aark Pass. Cliff passability allowed.

Spoiler

Aark Pass Tower. Door tile seems to be positioned too far left. Passability is allowed through the right side door jamb section.

Spoiler

For some reason, these stairs look like a wall at first glance. I had to come back a second time to test for passage.

Spoiler

Who is Abby?

 

[Reinarc]

Will work on those minor fixes tomorrow. Headband is intentional. There’s no quest log after that boss because the demo is over. When you leave the tower it will tell you.

As for the rude mage, remember what was next to the key

Abby is part of a side quest in Jordstown.

Edit: All fixed up and uploading, many thanks.

 

[kimo]

Will work on those minor fixes tomorrow. Headband is intentional. There’s no quest log after that boss because the demo is over. When you leave the tower it will tell you.

As for the rude mage, remember what was next to the key

Abby is part of a side quest in Jordstown.

Edit: All fixed up and uploading, many thanks.

I mentioned the quest log only because I didn't understand the purpose of entering the tower except to find the boss (but I didn't know there would be a boos at the end). I did get some good stuff from those chest directional puzzles which I liked because they required basic logic.

I didn't want to mention what was beside the key so it didn't spoil it for someone else. I guess "I sort of saw the witch" would be more appropriate.

I typically talk to everyone in towns, so I am surprised I missed a quest (wasn't in the log). I assume I was to find Abby in the tower only if the quest was initiated.

I'll download the newest version when you say okay. There is no additional storyline yet, though?

 

[Reinarc]

Nope it's just fixing things you caught. I am also tinkering with a boss challenge system while reducing hp on bosses further. I want to make it more accessible to players who want challenge/want it easy, without having standard settings.

I expect to have the next part up by the end of April/middle of May. Work has been crazy.

Thanks a ton for nabbing those bugs for me.

 

[Lady_JJ]

@kimo well, she sort of decomposed pretty quickly, didn't she?
@Reinarc Did you see my note re: the outcast camp quest? I added it as an edit, so I'm hoping you didn't miss it.

Small typo, no biggie-
During after dinner outside cutscene with Kara and Nani, Nani says
"You're said you're from Dulca, is..."
?should be either "You said" or "You've said"

Working on the crazy outcast battle right now.

 

[Reinarc]

I did see it, thanks

 

[Lady_JJ]

I brought Abby back to her uncle. I'm not sure I'm finished with the tower, though, because I didn't get a 'demo over' notification, I don't have a headband or a painted helmet and I don't remember fighting a pride mage. I guess I'll go poking around there some more later.

In the meantime, these are my latest findings

Spoiler: Typos and thoughts

Johanna speaking to Aarlin in the pub following the outcast uprising
"...I was so intrigued, I decided to follow your for a while a bit of magic."
? should be "... a while with a bit of ..."

later in speech, Johanna says (about King Fauke),
"...time to let Alavon wringle and die."
Is wringle a word or did you mean wrinkle?

Wise man in Jordstown at swingset
"...the less you tend you focus on having fun."
? should be "..you tend to focus..."

Wise man by large tree stump
"...and will protect your from exposure to the elements."
? should be "...protect you from..."

Inside house
"An book about traveling"
? should be "A book..."

I feel badly that they can't get back to Nani's home to say 'goodbye' especially since Aarlin promised James he'd show him a few sword techniques and that didn't happen, not terribly honorable on Aarlin's part...

 

[Reinarc]

I brought Abby back to her uncle. I'm not sure I'm finished with the tower, though, because I didn't get a 'demo over' notification, I don't have a headband or a painted helmet and I don't remember fighting a pride mage. I guess I'll go poking around there some more later.

In the meantime, these are my latest findings

Spoiler: Typos and thoughts

Johanna speaking to Aarlin in the pub following the outcast uprising
"...I was so intrigued, I decided to follow your for a while a bit of magic."
? should be "... a while with a bit of ..."

later in speech, Johanna says (about King Fauke),
"...time to let Alavon wringle and die."
Is wringle a word or did you mean wrinkle?

Wise man in Jordstown at swingset
"...the less you tend you focus on having fun."
? should be "..you tend to focus..."

Wise man by large tree stump
"...and will protect your from exposure to the elements."
? should be "...protect you from..."

Inside house
"An book about traveling"
? should be "A book..."

I feel badly that they can't get back to Nani's home to say 'goodbye' especially since Aarlin promised James he'd show him a few sword techniques and that didn't happen, not terribly honorable on Aarlin's part...

Very cool! I took the game off temporarily as I’m polishing up a boss challenge feature. I’ll definitely get to those.

How was that mini boss as far as difficulty? I intended it to be more difficult than the actual boss. You’ll want to take the blue portal next to the red one to go to the bottom level.


EDIT: If you permit it, I'll add you (as well as everyone else who contributed) to a special thanks in my credits. I'm mind blown I missed those typos after testing those scenes so many times haha.

 

[Lady_JJ]

Mini boss? Are you saying the Mistress was a MINI BOSS!!!!! Ack! I'd say she was the most difficult so far. My battle skills are definitely not on par with Cythera, but neither am I total hack'n'slash-can't-seem-to-find-a-strategy type. It took me 4 tries before I figured out what would work for me and I'm definitely more focused now on hovering to find those statuses. Quentin's analytical focus was a life saver. Still, a good 20-25 minutes to finish her off, and most of that time was for planning the next few actions, not for the actions themselves. I'm grateful you're using a plug-in that shows the queue. It helps to know whether I can get an extra spell in, or do I need to shed my own reveals right away. Gotta keep at her, though, no unnecessary guarding/bracing or she'll just regenerate. She seems to be rather susceptible to sleep, but that doesn't necessarily stop her from acting. I wonder if it might even help her?

And, as for missing those typos, we all see what we expect to see. That's why it's so much easier to proofread for someone else than for yourself. I'd be honored to be in the credits. <3

 

[Reinarc]

So she's a "mid-way boss" or an "optional boss." I'm adding a quick note to the beginning of the fight in that regard before I reupload. She is part of Abby's questline in Jordstown, not required for the main story (and you can flee). These bosses will be much harder than the story boss, but will offer substantial reward. For example

Spoiler: Spoiler

The Mistress offers Quinten the Leech ability, and is the only place in the game he can get that skill. Will be very useful later on.

I'm hoping for a nice balance of challenge opportunities. In my new version coming out, all bosses have their HP dropped again (10-20%) but have a challenge that you can complete to earn a new currency. I'm liking it so far.


I will definitely do so. I'm learning quite a lot about where to give players more guidance and where to hold back). I definitely agree about proofreading. It was a hard pill to swallow seeing all the typo comments at first, but sometimes you just need fresh eyes to catch them. Thanks <3


EDIT: She's supposed to be immune to sleep, but I have two sleep statuses in my database and used the wrong one. D'oh! Although, with her reduced HP it should balance out. Her special moves are triggered as events.

 

[Lady_JJ]

Sometimes it's good to do things out of order. I went back into the temple and back downstairs. I was there before but somehow didn't fully explore it. Anyway, I got to the cutscene where the cutscene was waiting for me...

Spoiler: The group gets ahead of itself

As you can see, the other 3 are already there. Now, this would be a minor glitch, but it becomes a game-breaking bug because...

The game freezes here. The music stops, you can't access the menu and you can only X out, which is better than having to go to task manager to end it.

I went back to my save standing just before The Mistress, immediately retreated and came to this same spot and the cutscene played out as planned. I don't have the time this afternoon to replay Mistress' battle to see what would happen if I went downstairs with Abby in my party, and I probably won't be able to start this final battle today, but I thought you might want to take a look at it to see what switch/variable/whatever is causing this cutscene to freeze/loop/whatever. If you need the save file, let me know.

 

[Reinarc]

Ahhh perfect. I didn't think to test returning Abby first then going back to the dungeon. It was a very quick fix, and will be remedied in the new version. Having extra eyes and thought processes is very helpful. I will edit this post when I re-upload.


Edit: We are uploaded.

Changes

• A multitude of bug/typo/tileset fixes thanks to awesome feedback.
• Reveal changed to Expose. I played around with this in my head for a while, but I'm hoping it be slightly more intuitive.
• Starting at boss 2, HP of boss fights reduced 10-20%. This should speed up fights.
• Added a boss challenge at the beginning of each boss (again, starting at boss 2). Completing these challenges earns you Challenger Coins which can be redeemed for unique one of a kind items/equipment. (Not available for purchase in demo, but you will keep your coins if you hold on to your save file).
• The Mistress's Metal Burn effect is reduced. Life Ender now only reduces HP by 500 versus dropping to 1 HP.
• Bug fixed where if you return Abby before starting the boss of the ???? tower.
• A look at the outside of the Hallowed School (the scene should play even if loading a later save file. Go to the map where party member # 4 first joins your party). If loading a later save file, you may be blocked from going to Nani's area in upper Hrelda until you complete the sequence.
• Added several smaller scenes to Hrelda, such as saying goodbye to Nani and James and a new small scene with party member #4.
• Added some new NPC interactions (bartender Hrelda, etc).
• Credits added to all the play testers so far. Thank you for your help.
• Other things I forgot about.

@Lady_JJ, whenever you get back into it you should be good to go. I added a through to Aarlin just in case as a failsafe. Also, you won't get an explanation of the boss challenge because it happened earlier in the game. Basically, you complete the challenge to earn coins. You get a Challenger's Hourglass in your inventory that you can use to restart the battle (but won't regain consumables, that's a bit too complicated for me) or check on the current challenge. You by no means need to do the challenge, it's an option I added so I could justify nerfing the bosses a bit.


EDIT 4/7/21: New version with MZ 1.2.0 active. The game runs much faster, but there is now the occasional text box that cuts cut off. Oh well, I'll have to go through and adjust everything again. It shouldn't be too bad. I also made dialogue and cutscenes run much faster than before.