Sequels How should one do stats and gameplay?

[Seacliff]

This is something that has come to my mind and has been bugging me ever since.

Let's face it, sequels in videogames are hardly ever consistent, especially with RPGs. If an RPG sequel is using the same characters, then why is everyone set back to level 1 with wimpy skills? What happened to all the epic items I found in the first game?

For those of you who have done sequels before or plan to, what do you do to make the game feel like a sequel from a gameplay standpoint? Do you still reset your characters back to level 1 but give them the stat as if they were on cap level in the previous game? Ditch characters from the first game altogether? I have plans for a sequel myself, but I want to make sure I do it right.

 

[Mellye]

I like the "turn previous protagonists into NPCs and maybe temporary, overpowered, party members" approach.

 

[Espon]

I always found it dumb to see powerful characters suddenly turn into wimps between games.

If I ever made a sequel and involves the same cast, I would make everyone start at level 100, remove all the weaker versions of skills and balance the top-level spells as the new starting spells.  Really powerful skills will just be rebalanced and better stuff will be made available later in the game.

Numbers are just numbers and doesn't really matter if your characters start at 200 HP and end up with 5000 HP at 99, or start at 5000 HP and end up with 25000 HP at level 199 as long as the game is balanced around it.

 

[SPP]

From the top of my head if you're making a sufficient timeskip in between you can make a gravestone for the characters from the first game and the ones in the sequel can find the gravestone and pillage it for cool legendary stuff.

I prefer a prequel as a sequel though. Maybe make the final boss as the main character this time and maybe a story about how he turned evil. That way some players can sympathize with the bad guy and hate the other thing that made him evil. Hope this makes sense.

 

[bustedradio]

If you're continuing shortly after you left off in the first game (a few years), I'd say keep all those old stats and just make the numbers of everything else bigger. Numbers are just numbers, but it might as not be as satisfying for the player to see everyone so over powered.

If your character is starting in a new orginzation, like a new mercenary guild, or being promoted to a new rank, you can easily make it so that they start at the bottom again there, and keep all the old stats. At least the player will have something to work towards other than making a strong character stronger.

If there is a time skip in your story (a couple of decades) and your character has just been spending time with their family or in a situation where they don't really fight people or monsters, you can put them at the bottom again.

 

[ashikai]

I like it when characters either lose their powers at the end of a game (and then have to reclaim them in the sequel) or when they somehow get their abilities sealed (being in a coma and having to re-train the body, sealed magic abilities that have to be unlocked, or something like that)  in the second. But that's only if you're doing a short timeskip with the same characters.

Then again, Golden Sun (1&2. 3 never happened.) handled this really well by switching focus from the original 4 MCs to another set of 4 MCs for half the game. Then you get your original 4 MCs when your new set is about the same level. I seem to remember another set of games that was planned out as a 2-parter from the start that basically planned both games out as a single game, and split it in two; that is, game 1 took you from level 1-45, and game 2 took you from 45-80+. Enemies balanced accordingly.

.hack// series has a neat take on sequels + recurring characters + balancing as well. Probably feels more interesting than it is since it's a game about playing a game... and you can reset characters and character levels in the meta game... XD

 

[Wavelength]

There are a bunch of different ways to allow new characters to start at level 1 and whatever, but as for a direct sequel, I really like being able to transfer over my characters (skills, relationships and all) from the previous game.  If it would be gamebreaking to keep all items as well, it's okay to get rid of those.  And for new players, start with a party that would be powerful enough to have beaten the last game, or give the player a chance to "build" their characters up from the ground if there was a lot of character customization in the last game.

Then you can start with enemies in the first field/dungeon that are nearly as strong as the high-level ones from the last game, and using that as a baseline, construct a power curve similar to any other RPG.

 

[KeeganKLM]

A cool way to have sequels while keeping inventory/skills/levels that Mardek RPG did (which is a free, online flash game, btw) is that the developer made it so when you completed Chapter 1, you could open that save in Chapter 2. Too bad there isn't a plug-in or something for that... As far as I'm aware, at least.


(If you want to see what I mean by that, the link to the games are above, and Chapter 1 is only an hour)

 

[Schlangan]

Interesting, because that's exactly what I plan to do. Finishing one game will give a save usable in game two. In between games, the characters will keep many things from the old save, especially their relative strength and all their skills. However, the values of the stats will be reduced through a simple explanation; power units change between games. 


For example, a character with 3500 HP and 240 strength at lvl 80 at the end of game 1 will start game 2 at 350 HP and 24 strength at lvl 8 (division by ten of the stats). 


Doing so, the characters keep getting stronger but the values do not become aberrant by reaching millions or more.

 

[XIIIthHarbinger]

I think that if I were to make a sequel enough time would have to have passed, that my previous heroes, would be potential mentors/quest givers/etcetera; or enough time would have had to have passed for them to be dead.


Either one or two of them can serve as mentor/guide to the next generation of characters; or references to the adventures of the first game could be scattered about as Easter Eggs for the player to find.


The reset to level 1, "I am back to being a noob" bit, is simply too jarring to my suspension of disbelief.

 

[LuLingqi1]

reVITAlyze is meant to be the first in a series of games. 


For the first, reVITAlyze, the story is constrained mainly to the first act of the overall tale that takes place in a giant dungeon. The second act of the tale takes place in the open world outside of the dungeon, with the dungeon reappearing in a bonus game mode. The final act takes place in a Hell-type dimension.


In the script for the entire story, when the heroes leave the dungeon, it is revealed they failed their task and the bad guy really won. Then like, they all get pretty weakened.


This was super cliche in my opinion, and I figured what I would do is just remap their skills and stuff.


I've also fiddled with just creating the sequel as an expansion to the main game? I'm not sure. Follow up to an rpg is weird. Hyperdimension Neptunia does it every time, and they use the archetypical Power Down. My problem would just be new skills and classes.


Though, I have planned a prequel game, and it seems a lot easier with a new cast. But a new cast is boring ;-;


I found through this all, that a new cast is best.  So, one should I guess, power down the cast -EWWW-, or use a new cast --Pretty cool unless your original cast is way cooler--

 

[Vox Novus]

Gameplay wise I think sequels should be similar, they should keep the same overall concepts in battle but add a slight new twist between games to keep it interesting.


Take the Xenosaga trilogy, all three games use turn based battles where stocking and using boosts to gain turn advantages is key. The latter two games add new elements such as a break system involving breaking down an enemy "barrier" to open them up to damage but keep the core concepts in all three games.


Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross are both fantastic jrpgs but they aren't necessarily the best in relating to each other especially in terms of gameplay. Both use turn based battles but trigger has a major usage of utilizing combination attacks while Cross barely utilizes this feature at all.


Progression wise I think you have more freedom between games, it would be far less of detriment to go from a game where you learn skills via a skill tree in one game and then another way in a sequel. Although it should probably a natural progression, going from learning skills via skill tree to learning skills via level is a little bit of a "downgrade."


Stat wise you have some options here; depending on the plot of the game there could be very specific reasons why characters might lose powers between games. I don't think this is the biggest concern though unless you intend to do save file transfers between games as most players are going to assume they are starting over with each new game. I would keep stats consistent between games, I.E. characters keep the same type of orientation between games; a power oriented character should be so in all games he occurs in. It pretty much goes without saying to that all the stat names should be the same between games as well unless of course there is a viable reason to change the name such as a player base being confused by a name or going pokemon and splitting one stat into two stats.

 

[LaFlibuste]

Other people have said how numbers are just numbers and you could start at lv1 or lv101, it's all relative. Yes, of course. There are however two caveats:


1) Skills; Sure, if your game is ultra-boring and skills are only ever stronger version of themselves that do more damage, this'll work. But as you gain levels, you usually get a whole array of utility skills that'll likely unbalance your sequel's early game or whatever. With some skills, you can't just up the numbers. Also, names. Unless, once again, your skill list is super boring and filled with "Fire 1", "Fire 2", etc., there's only so much you can do to make it sound stronger. "Flame", "Fireball", "Blaze", "Volcano", "Inferno", "Firestorm of death", "Ultimate fire of the apocalypse"... There's a point where it becomes too much, you know?


2) Setting; Sure, numbers are relative, I agree. Still, you have to plan your game in such a way that it makes sense. I mean, your characters just killed the hugely overpowered world-eating demon of supreme doom, nice! So now they are going to keep adventuring by clearing that cellar of lv 103 giant rats which will somehow be a challenge? Okay, the numbers will work, but how is that even close to making sense?

Personally I'd go with using the same universe for the sequel but ditching the old characters. Maybe they took important positions in various cities and can't go adventuring anymore, maybe they're too old now or died, maybe they're just vain bastards, whatever, as long as they pass on the torch and another party takes their place.

 

[Kes]

I agree with everything LaFlibuste said.  I think there are lots of ways of incorporating your old characters so that your new game is clearly a sequel and not just another game in the same universe.  For example, taking up the idea of them having important positions, and are now old, they could be the ones in charge of the response to the new danger.  They have to commission the new characters.  You could have a lot of fun with the dialogues showing how hard it is for them to let go being the action heroes and allowing others do it.

 

[IamGilgamesh]

I would survey the fanbase about their favorite parts and aspects. I would stay true to those, alter the least popular ones, and flesh out new aspects based around the more popular aspects of the originals. Just off top.