Setting up your project with room to grow!

[GrandmaDeb]

Setting up your project with room to grow.


Let’s discuss this, because there are so many school-of-hard-knocks mistakes I have made, and I wish I could skip as many as possible in the future!


1. Set up your resources from the very beginning with each actor’s graphics in separate files.


Justification: For example, if you are using Actor 5-3 {Rick) as your main character, the database is already set up with his face graphic and sprite. This is bad. This is very bad. The reason it is very bad is because RPG Makers Change their Minds! At some point you will say, “Gee, I really could use an emoset of faces for Rick, because when he is talking in the scene of great sadness, he looks like a dope standing there smiling.” Now what will you do? Now you will have a full emo set for Rick, but you will not be able to easily change all of the former dialog face graphics. So when you edit dialog that needs an emoset added, you have to go lookup the file for the emoset. But that is just the beginning. Now your game is really taking off, and Literally the Entire Human Race has made RPGs and THEY ALL USED RICK! Infact, they hate Rick. New games with Rick die on the vine! (poor Rick) How can you change every single face in every Show Text Event? You cannot! You must now begin to say “I should have listened to Granny, I should have listened to Granny!” Because if you had listened to Granny, you would have taken a separate file with Rick’s face graphics, conveniently named after the Character in the story, or named “Main Guy” or whathave you, and just replaced the file with the new face graphics, using the old name. Voila! All faces changed in three minutes or less. Same thing for actors’ sprites. Separate files, folks.


There are other areas I think I would have handled very differently if I had known.


How about you? What early decisions left you beating your head against the pavement because they took so much work to correct?

 

[mlogan]

Well, I've started with my newer projects cutting out the RTP all together from the start. This is not a RTP bashing thing, but more of a file size bashing thing. It takes a bit of work to set up (going through and clearing settings with sound effects, etc. or importing those needed effects/graphics). But in the end it is worth it, to me anyway.

It also helps me be much more intentional in my tilesets. For example, I may think I need 15 different sheets for one map, but when I start looking through to compile them, I realize "No, I only need a few things from here and a few things from there". I have yet to run into a map that I just cannot get everything that I actually use in into one tileset.

And yes, in my mind those two points go together. And hopefully make some sort of sense.

 

[frrrosty]

I'm too new to share war stories but I'm definitely going to sit in and listen to yours so I can avoid as many mistakes as possible.  Thanks for this thread!

 

[Paladin-Cleric of Awesome]

Common events are your friends.

One thing I've discovered while making my stealth game is that there are so many events it is hard to keep track of. but the worst thing is if you have something like a RESET button that needs to be in each and every battle processing, only you realise suddenly "Hey, I need to add an extra control switch in there" and suddenly are faced with the horrible, daunting task, of editing each event...

Common events are my friends. I love you common events!

So yeah, my two cents.

 

[mlogan]

Oh, your events makes me think - Everyone needs to read the "NPCs are not events" tutorial (or whatever it is called). I now actually have on most if not all of my maps an event called "Scene Control" and I try to put as much of cutscenes as I can in there. It makes it much easier when you need to edit something to know where you need to go to edit it. Of course, you can't always get everything into one event but it helps to as much as you can in there.

 

[Bonkers]

Setting up your project with room to grow.

Let’s discuss this, because there are so many school-of-hard-knocks mistakes I have made, and I wish I could skip as many as possible in the future!

1. Set up your resources from the very beginning with each actor’s graphics in separate files.

Justification: For example, if you are using Actor 5-3 {Rick) as your main character, the database is already set up with his face graphic and sprite. This is bad. This is very bad. The reason it is very bad is because RPG Makers Change their Minds! At some point you will say, “Gee, I really could use an emoset of faces for Rick, because when he is talking in the scene of great sadness, he looks like a dope standing there smiling.” Now what will you do? Now you will have a full emo set for Rick, but you will not be able to easily change all of the former dialog face graphics. So when you edit dialog that needs an emoset added, you have to go lookup the file for the emoset. But that is just the beginning. Now your game is really taking off, and Literally the Entire Human Race has made RPGs and THEY ALL USED RICK! Infact, they hate Rick. New games with Rick die on the vine! (poor Rick) How can you change every single face in every Show Text Event? You cannot! You must now begin to say “I should have listened to Granny, I should have listened to Granny!” Because if you had listened to Granny, you would have taken a separate file with Rick’s face graphics, conveniently named after the Character in the story, or named “Main Guy” or whathave you, and just replaced the file with the new face graphics, using the old name. Voila! All faces changed in three minutes or less. Same thing for actors’ sprites. Separate files, folks.

There are other areas I think I would have handled very differently if I had known.

How about you? What early decisions left you beating your head against the pavement because they took so much work to correct?

Oh my...you can do that with separate files in the graphics/characters and faces directory?  That would have make organizing so much easier. =(  I'm doing that for the next project for sure since it's a bust system.

Thankfully when I changed my mind I replaced the the actor data and simply imported in a file with the same name for each.  This helps when you have placeholders, and I use placeholders for everything.

Everybody started as a generated sprite and face, and they had custom ones imported afterwards which automatically changed to their correct sprite and facial expression.  

My biggest problem was mapping without reason, and it left me to redo so much later on.  Instead of making maps functional I added anything and everything to make them look nice which took 40+ megs of tile sets I didn't need.  Again here I use placeholders and add to a tile set only if I need something.  Graphically an entire project can be dummied in to allow for quick eventing and then swapped out for the real graphics later are you make or find them.  

So to combat this I work in Photoshop with a blank map of only walls and floor tiles "pre-map" and on the screen shot of the empty room begin to build things up.  Doing so has spectacular results:

This:

Becomes this:

With just a few simple moments of planning and thought.  Don't rush into mapping.  The rewards are greater the longer you 'work the clay'.

 

[Venka]

back up your project! I've lost a project I'd been working on for months due to a glitch where the files became corrupted (it happens rarely with RPG Maker VX/VXAce). And just cause I'm extra hard headed.. finally got stuff back to where it was and took the laptop on a plane flight with me where I swear the TSA folks took it out and played soccer with it. When we got to our hotel room and unpacked, the screen was cracked, the hard drive died within a few days and there were dirt and scuff marks all over the laptop case... So lost my project again.

The other thing.. is plan out your game as best as you can before even touching the program. I know that's nearly impossible to do.. but it works better that way as you'll have some goals and idea of what you're doing and not get too hung up on one thing. This also makes me happier when setting up my database because like items can be clumped together (all healing potions are items 1 - 10). The higher the item in the database, the more to the front of the player's inventory it is. Also, there's always an item or two that needs adding while the project develops. And since I'm an OCD freak.. I have to leave blank slots below ever database category. So when I realize I need a bigger heal potion somewhere down the line, I can slip it into one of those blank spots instead of ending up being item id 187 or some such

 

[GrandmaDeb]

@PalladinThug:


I didn't mean separate folders for resources, I just meant separate PNG files for each character.


So, for example, if I were using any RTP character, I would just copy the source graphic and rename it "Character One" or what-have-you.


I'd like to hear a bit more about how you work the mapping approach. Do you make a blank map with necessary events and just catch up on mapping as you go along?


@MLogan:


I get it about the RTP files. As long as you feel comfortable editing things into a new file, I think you really should only allow your project access to the files you will be using. But I only speak from a concept on this: I haven't worked out a system yet for how to do it or used it in a game. It definitely would be a lot of work to replace the sound of doors opening and closing and everything.


Do you use your "Scene Control" event to handle processes for the map as soon as you enter it each time, or are they separate?


@Venka:


Amen to frequent, well named backups!


And my "big" VX project died under the weight of a poorly defined story-line. I worked so hard, but it was all for nothing because it rambled on and on... So yes! to planning ahead.


@Palladin, Cleric of Awesome:


/me snuggles with a few Common Events.


Hmm that doesn't sound right.


But yes, and planning ahead helps with that, too, I'd suppose.

 

[Bonkers]

@PalladinThug:

I didn't mean separate folders for resources, I just meant separate PNG files for each character.

So, for example, if I were using any RTP character, I would just copy the source graphic and rename it "Character One" or what-have-you.

I'd like to hear a bit more about how you work the mapping approach. Do you make a blank map with necessary events and just catch up on mapping as you go along?

Oh whew.  I was worried I missed something major.  Yes I agree on that one, and it lets you pass on the RTP files like Mlogan said.  

For every map I start with just a box.  If it functions for everything intended event wise, then I start with loading in PS/Gimp and start working.  I do this because there is nothing more frustrating than having a beautiful map you cannot use or cut out of the game altogether.  You save time being simple.

I take a variant on Indrah's design.  She starts with pathing.  This let's you plan the foot traffic for maps and how they relate to one another while you build an area.  

I take that a step further, and show evidence of foot traffic, and more traveled areas including the environment and occupant's effect on a map.  This is why with the mage guild I used in my example is a tent, their possession are to the back of the tent furthest from the entrance, and their living space for bedding is behind a curtain.  Everything they want to be displayed is in eye view of the counter top.  Now I can get fancy.  I take restaff elements, and small effects like magic circles and add them to where the events that use them lay.  I make sure to keep the layer separate that way I can adjust and move if it doesn't look right.  This allows me much more freedom than the editor, and lets me keep up a 32x32 grid to keep the player able to travel their intended path.  You can even set a highlighted path on a separate layer to see if the design will work.  

This holds true for world map elements as well.  Function before creativity.  Pretend you are cooking.  Less is more.

If a map like a church requires custom made tile sets like stain glass windows and light overlays, pews, or a more open space I only focus on player traffic and work to where the player must go.  I have more examples, and am happy to give you some maps I've worked on and reworked in the last 6 months.

Events are done on a dummy map for essential elements like NPCs, cut scene, or an object. 

 

[AcosmicDevi]

Since FSM went down, I learned to download resources whenever I come across them. This includes songs, scripts, etc and anything else I think I might want, even if I'm not going to use right at that moment.

 

[captainproton]

I've actually spent a good portion of today working on world maps. When I first started my project, it was just a sort of "learning" project, and while it still is, I'm putting serious effort into it. And planning out my game means the first overworld map is woefully in adequate. Not only is it the wrong size, but it's altogether the wrong shape for the progression of the game. Now, I have to make a new overworld and redo the player transfers for villages, etc.

Learn from my mistake! Get yourself some graph paper and draw it out first!

 

[mlogan]

@MLogan:

I get it about the RTP files. As long as you feel comfortable editing things into a new file, I think you really should only allow your project access to the files you will be using. But I only speak from a concept on this: I haven't worked out a system yet for how to do it or used it in a game. It definitely would be a lot of work to replace the sound of doors opening and closing and everything.

Do you use your "Scene Control" event to handle processes for the map as soon as you enter it each time, or are they separate?

It can be a lot of work. And for a bigger project it might not be worth it. Or an easier variant might be to just delete all of the tilesets and import only what you need. For me, it's primarily about keeping file size down and I just don't use a lot of the RTP stuff. I mean, it's great to have so many sound effects, but in reality what percentage do you actually use in a game, you know? So personally, it's easier to start with a blank slate instead of going back and trying to figure what I have used and haven't and hoping I remember guess/right.

The easiest way to reimport things I've found so far is to open a second project that has the RTP and then export the needed resource straight into the current project's folder.

Scene Control - I'm not sure what you mean by "processes" here. It's an event that contains as much as I can put in there - all of the dialog needed for a cutscene and such. How it runs depends on the need - some are autorun, some are player touch, etc. Sometimes I might need another event with a switch trigger or something (changing a graphic as an example).

It's definitely a system I'm still working out. But again, one of the primary advantages is that if you need to edit something you can pretty much guarantee where it is.

I hope that helps explain it.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

Yeah, whenever you're doing a set of things that constitute one scene, it's always a good idea to just use 1 controlling event for that... Some people, especially beginners do it the other way around, which is every single "NPC" has his supposed actions inside each of the events that represents an "NPC" which makes it a bit harder to organize things up... Especially when you want to edit something afterwards, since you cannot easily see the whole scenario, an edit that you make with one of these "NPC" can destroy the whole scene, while if you just make those "NPC" as simply NPCs with no event commands at all and just let a control event handle everything, it becomes easier to edit things up

 

[Galenmereth]

#1 Do you use an event action more than one place? Make it a common event, so you only have to change it once when you do. And you will

#2 Use parallell processes to perform actions before the map loads, like setting tints, conditional music, and so forth. Always remember to use Erase Event when you do use them like this, of course. And keep rule #1 in mind here, too.

#3 Staring at a huuuuge sequence of event actions in one common event? Split it up into separate logical common events instead, and call those from one "controller" common event. It's much more manageable.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

I'll add to #3 - And make sure you name each one with a descriptive name so that you won't forget which one does what

coz else, it will just be like making a cutscene via having each "NPC" have it's own event commands... which is a bit chaotic and actually harder to manage than one huge event so make the most of the common event tab being in a list form, give them descriptive names... XD

It would also be nice to make use of the fact that you can make some maps act like a "folder" which can "contain" other maps (via right-clicking that folder map then choosing new map so that the new one automatically goes inside it, or simply dragging an already made map into that folder map). Like make the main map of a city then use it as a "folder" and have all other maps for that city "inside" that "folder", that way when you need to edit some parts, it will be easier to find the map that you're looking for

 

[mlogan]

I'll add to #3 - And make sure you name each one with a descriptive name so that you won't forget which one does what

Yes, yes, yes!!

Hmmm, also utilize comments inside your events. On more complicated events it is helpful to put a comment stating what each chunk or page is doing, so that when you look at it a month later, you can figure it out much easier.

 

[Shaz]

Make your own quick events.


If you have certain events that you'll want in multiple places, create a single map and make one of each of these. Then when you need to put it on a REAL map, you can just go to your "quick event" map, copy it, and paste it. Don't need to try and remember which map you had put one on then go and find it. Don't need to try and remember how you set the event up so you can do the same again. What makes it EVEN EASIER is that you can copy that map into another project, then have them both open at once - so you don't even need to leave your current map in order to find your event to copy.


If you have parallel process events that do "map setup" type things then erase themselves, ALWAYS put them in the top left corner of the map. Then you know exactly where to go if you need to find it.


If you don't want to ship the RTP with your game, REMOVE it at the very beginning of development. MUCH easier to add RTP resources as you need them, than figure out later on which ones you use and don't use and remove them. After you remove RTP, your game will crash immediately, because you do need to add things like windowskins, iconset, some sound files. The System tab is a good place to look for these "must have" items.


I will +1 for organizing maps. Use a blank map for each large area, then add your outdoor/cave maps underneath that one, then add your indoor maps underneath the town/city map. Much easier to find maps when you've got lots to go through.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

If you don't want to ship the RTP with your game, REMOVE it at the very beginning of development. MUCH easier to add RTP resources as you need them, than figure out later on which ones you use and don't use and remove them. After you remove RTP, your game will crash immediately, because you do need to add things like windowskins, iconset, some sound files. The System tab is a good place to look for these "must have" items.

for the sake of those who don't know how to remove the RTP: Find your game.ini file for that project and remove the RTP= line then save the ini file

+1 to that "quick event" idea

 

[GrandmaDeb]

Holy cr@ckers, can you really copy events from one game to another?


I don't know whether to laugh or cry!

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

Yes, just open two instances of Ace and open two different projects... Though if it's about the "quick event" map, it's better to just copy the map instead I think