Should I make the jump from VXAce to MV?

Discussion in 'Product Discussion and Support' started by Romanticist, Feb 27, 2019.

  1. Romanticist

    Romanticist Veteran Veteran

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    I'm seriously struggling on this one...
    I read all the time that people hate playing low resolution games on 1080p monitors. And 1080p is the most common monitor size in current year 2019.
    I've adjusted my game to be in the 16:9 ratio (using the higher resolution DLL), and it still looks like a pixel art game in fullscreen mode, which personally, I think is cool (albeit true old school games were 4:3, but people will then complain about the cursed "black bars" so I decided to make it 16:9). I guess 32x32 tiles is pixel art, but I'm referring to the fonts and menus and character art; they also look pixel-y.
    But anyways, because people hate low resolutions so much, that is already one huge reason to switch to MV.

    ...However: when you make MV go to 1280x720, the character sprites look so dang small (especially when using Shaz's 32x32 tile size plugin, as I'm sure you can imagine). This was also the case with even 640x480 in Ace imho, but there is a beautiful script by Zeus that zooms the camera in perfectly, without any lag, while keeping the resolution in-tact for menus and pictures; you need only put it in one autorun event on the beginning map, and voila, the whole game is zoomed in (on maps; pictures and menus and dialogue keep default resolution).

    I cannot find any such plugin like that for MV; closest is Galv's zoom plugin, but you must put it in a parallel process common event that runs throughout the whole game for it to follow the player. And when the camera starts to move as you walk, it doesn't look great (especially when combined with the Altimit Pixel Movement, which I was really looking forward to using...).
    I have been recommended a plugin by SRD to fix this issue, which changes the in-game resolution to be different from the window resolution. But that's just it: it doesn't zoom in. It changes the entire resolution, making it pointless. I guess it could trick some people into believing it's a 720p game since the window is 1280x720, but then you go into fullscreen, and you realize it looks as pixelated as a VXAce game.
    I don't mind the maps looking pixelated; I mean, 48x48 is basically still pixel art (and I'd actually still like to use Shaz's 32x32 tile script). But I don't want the character busts/GUI/menus/fonts to be pixelated... I want them to take advantage of the higher resolution (especially the character busts).
    This problem of small sprites (when compared to games like Zelda LttP or FF6) on a higher resolution actually really matters to me, because I cannot stand tiny characters, all the while having your screen so big you can see the majority of the map. So not being able to smoothly keep the map zoomed in is a major problem I have with MV.

    My other issue is, I have a lot of scripts and common events and items and maps that I have already made in VXAce. It would take forever to port all of this to MV while keeping the same feel that I had on my custom GUI (using scripts that I didn't write, and then also using my own custom VXAce-sized window skins and icons)... I've tried looking for plugins that replicate the scripts I have, but I'm at a loss with many of them. For example, SRD's ring menu plugin is a worse version of Syvkal's ring menu script for VXAce (I'm not trashing SRD btw, many of his plugins are fantastic, it's just that the two I've listed in this post don't do what I would like, is all). I could easily ditch the ring menu (even though I made my own graphics for them which I like, but oh well), or I could deal with a worse ring menu (SRD's is animated less), but there are many more examples like that, the biggest of which being the lack of a proper zoom plugin as I outlined above.

    And I dunno, I just have a lot of nitpicks with how MV handles things (longer loading for my subpar PC sucks, lack of fade transitions between menus really bothers me - even Galv's menu fade plugin only fades in and out of the main menu, and not the sub menus like Items, Skills, etc., while VX Ace has had nice fade transitions for all menus by default, which looks far less jarring).
    I have been really comfortable with VX Ace for years, but only recently have I had the free time to truly work on a game. I've mostly been screwing around all these years until the past half year; in other words, with all of my "screwing around" throughout the past half decade with Ace, using it feels like second nature to me. But although I've recently made decent progress on my game, I can jump to MV (which does have a similar feel to VXAce, though the plugin manager is more clunky than the script editor imo). Even if it would take some monotonous porting, along with a lack of nice scripts that have no good equivalent plugins in MV. I suppose I could learn Javascript and replicate the scripts that I like into my MV game... I hear that learning Javascript is easier to learn than RGSS3? I dunno...

    What do you guys think I should do? I know this is an RPG Maker forum and all, so you guys will play a game that's good in any RPG Maker engine - but will the general public?
    I guess I'll leave off with this question: could To the Moon still be well received, having been made in XP with lower resolution, were it released in 2019/2020 instead of 2011? If I made the beginning of a game of similar quality in VXAce (not saying my game is anywhere near that quality at the moment tho), would it be worth moving to MV, a much more powerful engine with the ability to make beautiful high-res art?
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
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  2. Kes

    Kes Global Moderators Global Mod

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    I've moved this thread to Product Discussion and Support. Please be sure to post your threads in the correct forum next time. Thank you.

     
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  3. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    Here's the thing: Those who complain about low res games are a very vocal minority I've found. Even in MV you'll never please them because by the time your game is done they will say that your 1920 x 1080 game is too low res why didn't you make it for 1440p monitors (which just came out BTW). So chasing the high res crowd as an indie is in my opinion a waste of time, especially as by the time you finish your game the standards will have changed again. Focus instead on making a game for those who like games if they are good and don't care what the graphics are, and that should help aid your decision more.
     
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  4. Romanticist

    Romanticist Veteran Veteran

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    I agree with that, I actually even see people complain about 1280x720 games. "It's 2019, after all! 1080p is the standard!!" And shoot, 1440p might be the standard by the time I'm finished with my game, haha.
    IMO, as long as it is 16:9 and can upscale, it shouldn't be an issue... It'll look like any other pixel art game. I even have no issue with 4:3, but I'm the minority in that regard, I guess.
    And yet, I still find those who apparently enjoy pixel art games (if they didn't, why are they playing an RPG Maker game, honestly?), yet complain that the upscaling looks too blurry or something, which I have no idea how to fix in VXAce :LZSsad:
     
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  5. Celianna

    Celianna Tileset artist Global Mod

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    As others mentioned, it's less about resolution. If you stick with a 16:9 ratio, then you'd fine. My game barely uses 720p and I have only had a single person complain about not having a higher resolution available. Besides, pixel art games don't work very well with larger resolutions, as sometimes you just want to enter a small house, and you don't want it to be a vast sea of blackness because the house is small but the resolution is huge.
     
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  6. VeryXInh

    VeryXInh Veteran Veteran

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    The only thing you should worry is the game quality, small or big, as long as it's a good game, it's fine.
     
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  7. MushroomCake28

    MushroomCake28 KAMO Studio Veteran

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    I prefer MV over Ace, but it's all about the features you want. MV might have a more fluid resolution, but like many said resolution isn't really important for 2D games based on sprites. Resolution is only something important in 3D game that uses rasterization rendering (or RTX if the gamers got the $).

    ACE has the advantage of being older, thus having more resources available for it. MV has the advantage of crossplatform, character generator by default, 48x48 tiles (if you prefer more details per tiles, but not that much of an advantage if you use parallax mapping), more default features (that are mostly available in VX ACE through scripts anyways), etc.

    If you're starting from scratch, MV might be a better choice (unless there's a script you want/need that is only available for VX Ace). However, if you already have a project, there's no real point in switching. Both MV and ACE are a lot more similar than different.
     
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  8. gstv87

    gstv87 Veteran Veteran

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    the only difference between Ace and MV, is that MV allows you to export to mobile.
    everything else, can be overlooked.
    I prefer Ace because it has an embedded code editor that keeps all the code in one place, as opposed to MV's.
     
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  9. Romanticist

    Romanticist Veteran Veteran

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    I also vastly prefer the script editor in VXAce over the plugin manager in MV. I can't really write scripts, but with enough trial and error, I can edit them, so it's nice to see the code directly instead of having to input specific variables like in MV's plugin manager. I know people say the plugin manager is more newbie friendly, but I honestly think the opposite. The worst part is having to download plugin files and put them in the plugin folder, then going into the plugin manager and looking for the plugin through the dropdown menu, as opposed to just copying and pasting the script into the script editor as in VXAce.
     
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  10. Celianna

    Celianna Tileset artist Global Mod

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    By the way, the best advice to give; if you're already working on a project in Ace, don't port it over. Finish it in Ace.

    Porting it over will cause many headaches. You can try out new projects in MV in the future though.
     
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  11. Engr. Adiktuzmiko

    Engr. Adiktuzmiko Chemical Engineer, Game Developer, Using BlinkBoy' Veteran

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    If you're already working on it in Ace finish it there.. Take note though that afaik using the High Res DLL is prohibited now.
     
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  12. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    @Engr. Adiktuzmiko : Actually it's not, but there is no official thread for it, and it is no longer supported here in any way shape or form.
     
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  13. Engr. Adiktuzmiko

    Engr. Adiktuzmiko Chemical Engineer, Game Developer, Using BlinkBoy' Veteran

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    Ooooh that's nice.
     
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  14. TWings

    TWings The Dragon Whisperer Veteran

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    As a player and MV user, I don't care much for the window resolution. I'm using the native one. It makes it so much easier when it comes to designing maps and keep some proper ratio. I've seen so much stuff made for high resolution screens that just end up beeing filled with a lot of emptiness...
    It may not be perfect, but if people want it big, they can still go full screen or mess with the window size. I prefer everything beeing scaled-up than having uneneccessary big empty maps with bug sized characters any day.
    4K screens are getting more and more main stream and the next generation of insane resolution is already there too. Well I for one certainly don't want to start designing old school 2D RPG in 4K native resolution !
     
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  15. Engr. Adiktuzmiko

    Engr. Adiktuzmiko Chemical Engineer, Game Developer, Using BlinkBoy' Veteran

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    Also if your window size is not a multiple of the tile size, graphical problems occur here and there.
     
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  16. MushroomCake28

    MushroomCake28 KAMO Studio Veteran

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    People confuse resolution in a 2D environment and 3D environment. Higher resolution in 2D games based on sprites is meaningless since the canvas is drawn with sprites. The detail of those sprites is what makes a difference. In 3D, models aren't images and they are only drawn on the screen during a process called rendering, and the more pixels there is, the more details there is.

    The resolution change in MV is just more advantageous because you can change the aspect ratio by default in the engine. I just personally don't like black bars, so I switched to a 16:9 ratio since it's the most common aspect ratio.
     
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  17. Romanticist

    Romanticist Veteran Veteran

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    I have that covered; I have a HUD similar to Link's Awakening at the bottom of my screen that covers the graphical errors.
    Example:


    Even without the high res dll, you could do 640 x 360 in Ace which is 16:9. But yeah, if you want higher than that (without finding the now rare high dll) and larger tiles, then MV is the answer.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
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  18. Engr. Adiktuzmiko

    Engr. Adiktuzmiko Chemical Engineer, Game Developer, Using BlinkBoy' Veteran

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  19. Canini

    Canini Veteran Veteran

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    Ah yes the old reason I still prefer rpgmaker over other engines, limitations truly are the mother of creativity.

    An important aspect to consider is whether you are going to use scripts at all. If so I'd say stick with ace. Just as resources there are more of them to choose from, most of them are finished instead of in active developement and as both @HikariJake and @gstv87 mentions I prefer the script editor in ace over the plugin manager in MV.
     
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