Side with the villain?

Lord Vectra

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As we know in most games, there is the hero(you), the person you side with, and the one you side against (usually the villain).

How do people feel about having the ability to side with the villain or even go against both parties?

I plan to do this in my project allowing all three options (for villain, against villain, against villain and ally).

Related Questions
If you would/would not ever join a villain to be evil, what if the villain was not totally evil? Meaning, he or she comes from a stand point that makes sense? Would that change your view? Would you be less likely, more likely, or just as likely(or lack of) to join him or her?
 

Milennin

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If there would be a good reason for the hero to side with the villain, sure...
 

JtheDuelist

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I actually find it interesting to add such cases, but just make sure you are executing and handling the idea better than FE Fates did (No, FE fanboys, I am not hating on Fates, as it is one of my favorites).
 

TheoAllen

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You're talking about Fallout New Vegas. You choose side, and a villain is actually based on one's perspective or another, depends on what you think. I mean, it's so rare to see a game like this. Most of times, "here is the villain you have to deal with it".

How I feel? I always prefer something like this over 'forced' villain. You choose side based on your moral.
 

gstv87

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find gameplays of Mortal Kombat X and watch how they jump sides as the story progresses.

I can't think of a more graphic explanation than that one.
 

Philosophus Vagus

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Some of my favorite games did that to a degree.. or rather, they have the villains side with the player for a time.

FFT did it, Delita helps you, you help him by protecting the princess, then he protects her while you kill off all his rivals and he assassinates his other friends. Pc gets labled a heretic for saving the world and disappears from history, traitorous backstabbing Delita marries the princess, kills her and rules the continent, goes down in history as a great man and savior for stopping the three wars he secretly started in the first place. Political intrigue and subterfuge make a great story if handled correctly

I'd love to see an inverse to that where the player manipulates the villain. To often the extent of the pc involvement is kill, get duped, kill until everything is dead and there are no villains left to trick them. The obvious challenge would be in the execution, how does the player know to manipulate the villain without data .dumps of lore and backround ahead of when they are relevant? (Which players seem to hate) or how do you make the pc action seem believable if you don't, and thus to some extent leave the player in the dark to their own motivations for doing what they are doing (also a hated trope) until the big conspiracy reveal? It's a great idea, but I'm not sure how it could be executed well in an interactive medium like video games. Seems more suited for vn or novels, or the half measures watered down factions of games like risen, elex, elder scrolls and fallout (excepting new vegas where your enemy is determined by your Ally, this is the closest I've seen a game get to letting the player manipulates their foes, but even so it just comes down to picking a side) where nothing you do for one group really effects anyone else. I feel what you want to do might have been the starting motivation behind such games, and making every action insulated from the world the coping mechanism they used when they realized that ambition wouldn't work out, to speak frankly.
 

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You can do anything you want, as long as you execute it well.
Even siding with the good guys can be handled badly, such as the Hero being a random boy joining the good guys for no particular reason.

The problem when giving a character the option to side with different (sometimes opposed) parties, is that you need a very flexible character.
As @JtheDuelist said, FE Fates handled the bad side (Nohr) poorly.
The Hero (Corrin) is a good person who values peace over war. The Hero can choose between good (Hoshido), evil (Nohr), and neither. Before the Fates fans complain: Nohr is obviously portrayed as the evil side. The king wants to subjugate everyone. Those who fight back are to be killed, no prisoners taken. And even though Corrin does his/her best to incapacitate their enemies without killing them (going as far as to order all their allies not to kill), the prisoners are then killed by Hans or Iago, who are acting under the order of King Garon himself.

So why does Corrin side with Nohr? Because "I am going to change this country from within, and winning this war is the fastest way".
It would make sense if Nohr was the only option Corrin could take, but as a member of the Hoshidan royal family (kidnapped and adopted by the Nohrian royal family) Corrin could just as well fight for Hoshido and have any of their (good) Nohrian royal siblings change the country from within after the King is gone, which is what Corrin does in the Birthright route.
It's just hard to shake the feeling that Corrin choosing Nohr feels extremely unnatural.

Even the neutral route makes more sense than the evil one, as Corrin doesn't want to betray neither their Nohrian, nor their Hoshidan siblings.
The problem with FE Fates is that the Hero is not flexible enough (too much of a good boy/girl), and the alignment of each side is very clear.

FE Echoes (remake of Gaiden) handles this much better (though it doesn't let the player choose sides).
Rigel attacks Zofia, and Rigel's king, Rudolph, kills Zofia's Goddess, the benevolent Mila. Sounds evil, right?
Rudolph actually planned for his son, Alm (raised in Zofia without any knowledge of his heritage), to lead a counterattack against Rigel and kill him, then proceed to kill Rigel's God, the harsh and strict Duma.
Why? Because the Gods are starting to go mad and Rudolph was afraid they'd lead humanity to its downfall. Obviously, the people would never go against their Gods, so Rudolph chose to play the villain to kill Mila, then have Alm slay Duma in retaliation.

The game also has a side villain, Jedah. A priest of the Duma Faithful, who repeatedly attempts to kidnap Princess Anthiese (Celica) so he can offer her soul to Duma.
It turns out Jedah truly believes that by sacrificing Celica's soul to Duma, he could halt the process of degeneration and allow the God to continue to provide for the people.

Meanwhile, the Deliverance (the "good" guys under Alm) is fighting Zofia's chancellor, Desaix, who murdered the king to rule the kingdom. Afterwards, the Deliverance tries to defend Zofia from Rigel.

And finally, Celica is travelling to meet with Mila to determine why the Goddess is no longer blessing the lands. She fights against the Duma Faithful to protect herself as they repeatedly attempt to kill her companions and kidnap her.
Each side has a justified and (to some extent) righteous reason.
It would've been impossible to let either of the protagonists choose their sides, because of their personality and (lack of) knowledge.


On the other hand, most Bioware RPGs have no difficulty letting the player choose their side, because the character they play doesn't really have a personality. It's the player who chooses the character's personality, so the player could try to save the world, or take control of it, depending on the player's whims.


Basically, your character needs a good reason to join either side.
 
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lokirafael

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I tried to do something similar to TO: Let us Climb Together from the PSP many times. It's the second only to FFT in writing, and has paths you can choose to advance the story (Chaos, Law or Neutral), and sometimes you ally with the enemies, other you are in the same team, based only in what you choose early on.

I think theres two ways to go:

1 - Reactions: Where there's only one history, but somethings changes based on you choice.
2 - Branching: Where there's multiple paths basead in key points.

Tatics Ogre uses a Branching path with parts.
chap 2 (Law) - Chap 3 (Law)
Chap 1 - chap 2 (Neutral) - Chap 3 (Neutral)
Chap 2 (Chaos) - Chap 3 (Chaos)

I think you should plan ALOT ahead before making that kind of game because they get confuse fast.

About being in the villain side. It will work better with you treat all parts as people with motivations. If you downplay him a villain, people will mostly likely not follow him.
 

Wavelength

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My instinct is that you're looking at it a bit simplistically (and maybe a lot of video games over the years have looked at it too simplistically, too). If a character or "side" is presented as a villain, it means the game has set you up to look at them as not only the antagonists of your characters and your game, but as a force that should and must be defeated. That's kind of what a villain (or "bad guy") is, and it's something that quality media accomplishes with its editorial bias and its direction, not just with its plot. The player/audience is made to believe that the heroes are morally "right", and the villains are morally "wrong". If that's taken away, there are no heroes and villains - just sides in conflict with one another.

Example 1: The movie Pearl Harbor, whose presents the American seamen/pilots as good guys/heroes, and the Japanese as bad guys/villains, even in the scene where the American pilots are firebombing the city of Tokyo. A fair read of history would paint a very gray picture around who were the heroes and villains of the US-Japan war in particular, but the movie needs you to believe that the Americans are heroes and we should cheer when they kill Japanese, so it focuses on the Americans' relationships and personalities and paints the Japanese more like competent, generic mooks.

Example 2: The game Tales of Symphonia presents an organization of villains (in the second half of the game) with a legitimately sympathetic cause, and in some cases sympathetic personalities as well. If you were in this world, it would be hard to tell who are the heroes and who are the villains. But while the plot itself kind of blurs the lines between good and evil, the narrative bent and focus make sure that you as the player know it very clearly. You're hunting the villains down and it wouldn't be fun if you felt too torn about it. And since there's no way to side with "the villains", they make sure that you know who the villains are - by including scenes where they murder and deceive innocents, refuse to compromise in the name of peace, and bring the world to the brink of destruction.

If you want to offer the player the opportunity to take one "side" or the other, you have to rework the standard way that stories are told. Because while most players want to be able to see and play a story from both sides if that's an option, few players will feel good for very long about doing what the game implies (through its direction and tone) is villainous or wrong. Therefore, you have to make sure that you tell your story in a way that will never make the player feel like they made the "wrong" choice about which side to take. I can think of two ways to do this:
  1. You can frame each side as a faction that has mostly good people and a just cause (even if both just causes are diametrically opposed). The factions are in conflict, but neither side is really portrayed as heroes or villains on the whole. In doing so, be sure that your (playable) characters are painted in a relatively heroic (or, at worst, gray) light. Make the player feel like they're controlling characters that want to do "right".
  2. You can branch the way that you tell the story once the player chooses one side or the other to join. Now that the player has chosen one faction or the other, you can start painting them more as heroes, and their enemies more as villains. Change the editorial bias, the focus, and even some of the minor events that take place in the plot, to firmly establish heroes and villains. Show personal stories, rescue of innocents, and idealistic causes from the heroes. Show wonton destruction or murder, expendability, and cynical causes from the villains.
 

Lord Vectra

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So this is what multi-quotes does. How convenient.

Got no alerts or emails of the replies, RIP. Sorry for taking this long to respond to anything.

In my project, the villain is said as "the main evil" since no one knows his name until halfway in the game, but once you know his name, you will know him as someone very different.

If there would be a good reason for the hero to side with the villain, sure...
I try to. Have a friend I talk to about it on whether the reason would be good enough or if I need to take away/add something.

I actually find it interesting to add such cases, but just make sure you are executing and handling the idea better than FE Fates did (No, FE fanboys, I am not hating on Fates, as it is one of my favorites).
I have FE friends. I vaguely remember them telling me about the story.

You're talking about Fallout New Vegas. You choose side, and a villain is actually based on one's perspective or another, depends on what you think. I mean, it's so rare to see a game like this. Most of times, "here is the villain you have to deal with it".

How I feel? I always prefer something like this over 'forced' villain. You choose side based on your moral.
The moral approach is what I was thinking of doing.

find gameplays of Mortal Kombat X and watch how they jump sides as the story progresses.

I can't think of a more graphic explanation than that one.
I watched my cousin play that game. It's pretty neat if it makes sense to do so, and a game can pull it off. There is a game I'm playing (Final Fantasy Dessida NT (PS4 version)) that I wished did this approach as you're forced to play as the heroes although you would think they would either jump sides or have two separate storylines considering you can play as all the villains in the online or offline battles/survival mode.

Some of my favorite games did that to a degree.. or rather, they have the villains side with the player for a time.

FFT did it, Delita helps you, you help him by protecting the princess, then he protects her while you kill off all his rivals and he assassinates his other friends. Pc gets labled a heretic for saving the world and disappears from history, traitorous backstabbing Delita marries the princess, kills her and rules the continent, goes down in history as a great man and savior for stopping the three wars he secretly started in the first place. Political intrigue and subterfuge make a great story if handled correctly

I'd love to see an inverse to that where the player manipulates the villain. To often the extent of the pc involvement is kill, get duped, kill until everything is dead and there are no villains left to trick them. The obvious challenge would be in the execution, how does the player know to manipulate the villain without data .dumps of lore and backround ahead of when they are relevant? (Which players seem to hate) or how do you make the pc action seem believable if you don't, and thus to some extent leave the player in the dark to their own motivations for doing what they are doing (also a hated trope) until the big conspiracy reveal? It's a great idea, but I'm not sure how it could be executed well in an interactive medium like video games. Seems more suited for vn or novels, or the half measures watered down factions of games like risen, elex, elder scrolls and fallout (excepting new vegas where your enemy is determined by your Ally, this is the closest I've seen a game get to letting the player manipulates their foes, but even so it just comes down to picking a side) where nothing you do for one group really effects anyone else. I feel what you want to do might have been the starting motivation behind such games, and making every action insulated from the world the coping mechanism they used when they realized that ambition wouldn't work out, to speak frankly.
Ye, that seems it'll be hard to pull off. I would like to see games that, what you do with on side will affect the other or else it gives an illusion of choice. In my project, the two sides are directly related, effecting one while it's not affecting the other would seem odd and out-of-place.

You can do anything you want, as long as you execute it well.
Even siding with the good guys can be handled badly, such as the Hero being a random boy joining the good guys for no particular reason.

The problem when giving a character the option to side with different (sometimes opposed) parties, is that you need a very flexible character.
As @JtheDuelist said, FE Fates handled the bad side (Nohr) poorly.
The Hero (Corrin) is a good person who values peace over war. The Hero can choose between good (Hoshido), evil (Nohr), and neither. Before the Fates fans complain: Nohr is obviously portrayed as the evil side. The king wants to subjugate everyone. Those who fight back are to be killed, no prisoners taken. And even though Corrin does his/her best to incapacitate their enemies without killing them (going as far as to order all their allies not to kill), the prisoners are then killed by Hans or Iago, who are acting under the order of King Garon himself.

So why does Corrin side with Nohr? Because "I am going to change this country from within, and winning this war is the fastest way".
It would make sense if Nohr was the only option Corrin could take, but as a member of the Hoshidan royal family (kidnapped and adopted by the Nohrian royal family) Corrin could just as well fight for Hoshido and have any of their (good) Nohrian royal siblings change the country from within after the King is gone, which is what Corrin does in the Birthright route.
It's just hard to shake the feeling that Corrin choosing Nohr feels extremely unnatural.

Even the neutral route makes more sense than the evil one, as Corrin doesn't want to betray neither their Nohrian, nor their Hoshidan siblings.
The problem with FE Fates is that the Hero is not flexible enough (too much of a good boy/girl), and the alignment of each side is very clear.

FE Echoes (remake of Gaiden) handles this much better (though it doesn't let the player choose sides).
Rigel attacks Zofia, and Rigel's king, Rudolph, kills Zofia's Goddess, the benevolent Mila. Sounds evil, right?
Rudolph actually planned for his son, Alm (raised in Zofia without any knowledge of his heritage), to lead a counterattack against Rigel and kill him, then proceed to kill Rigel's God, the harsh and strict Duma.
Why? Because the Gods are starting to go mad and Rudolph was afraid they'd lead humanity to its downfall. Obviously, the people would never go against their Gods, so Rudolph chose to play the villain to kill Mila, then have Alm slay Duma in retaliation.

The game also has a side villain, Jedah. A priest of the Duma Faithful, who repeatedly attempts to kidnap Princess Anthiese (Celica) so he can offer her soul to Duma.
It turns out Jedah truly believes that by sacrificing Celica's soul to Duma, he could halt the process of degeneration and allow the God to continue to provide for the people.

Meanwhile, the Deliverance (the "good" guys under Alm) is fighting Zofia's chancellor, Desaix, who murdered the king to rule the kingdom. Afterwards, the Deliverance tries to defend Zofia from Rigel.

And finally, Celica is travelling to meet with Mila to determine why the Goddess is no longer blessing the lands. She fights against the Duma Faithful to protect herself as they repeatedly attempt to kill her companions and kidnap her.
Each side has a justified and (to some extent) righteous reason.
It would've been impossible to let either of the protagonists choose their sides, because of their personality and (lack of) knowledge.


On the other hand, most Bioware RPGs have no difficulty letting the player choose their side, because the character they play doesn't really have a personality. It's the player who chooses the character's personality, so the player could try to save the world, or take control of it, depending on the player's whims.


Basically, your character needs a good reason to join either side.
Funny you say that because I would like to see a game that allows a 3rd option (accept neither and just rule it for his or herself). I think the "start out with no personality" is something everyone can like unless they prefer to roleplay as an actual character from the start (i.e. The Witcher series).

I tried to do something similar to TO: Let us Climb Together from the PSP many times. It's the second only to FFT in writing, and has paths you can choose to advance the story (Chaos, Law or Neutral), and sometimes you ally with the enemies, other you are in the same team, based only in what you choose early on.

I think theres two ways to go:

1 - Reactions: Where there's only one history, but somethings changes based on you choice.
2 - Branching: Where there's multiple paths basead in key points.

Tatics Ogre uses a Branching path with parts.
chap 2 (Law) - Chap 3 (Law)
Chap 1 - chap 2 (Neutral) - Chap 3 (Neutral)
Chap 2 (Chaos) - Chap 3 (Chaos)

I think you should plan ALOT ahead before making that kind of game because they get confuse fast.

About being in the villain side. It will work better with you treat all parts as people with motivations. If you downplay him a villain, people will mostly likely not follow him.
Can you elaborate on Reactions and Branching?

My instinct is that you're looking at it a bit simplistically (and maybe a lot of video games over the years have looked at it too simplistically, too). If a character or "side" is presented as a villain, it means the game has set you up to look at them as not only the antagonists of your characters and your game, but as a force that should and must be defeated. That's kind of what a villain (or "bad guy") is, and it's something that quality media accomplishes with its editorial bias and its direction, not just with its plot. The player/audience is made to believe that the heroes are morally "right", and the villains are morally "wrong". If that's taken away, there are no heroes and villains - just sides in conflict with one another.

Example 1: The movie Pearl Harbor, whose presents the American seamen/pilots as good guys/heroes, and the Japanese as bad guys/villains, even in the scene where the American pilots are firebombing the city of Tokyo. A fair read of history would paint a very gray picture around who were the heroes and villains of the US-Japan war in particular, but the movie needs you to believe that the Americans are heroes and we should cheer when they kill Japanese, so it focuses on the Americans' relationships and personalities and paints the Japanese more like competent, generic mooks.

Example 2: The game Tales of Symphonia presents an organization of villains (in the second half of the game) with a legitimately sympathetic cause, and in some cases sympathetic personalities as well. If you were in this world, it would be hard to tell who are the heroes and who are the villains. But while the plot itself kind of blurs the lines between good and evil, the narrative bent and focus make sure that you as the player know it very clearly. You're hunting the villains down and it wouldn't be fun if you felt too torn about it. And since there's no way to side with "the villains", they make sure that you know who the villains are - by including scenes where they murder and deceive innocents, refuse to compromise in the name of peace, and bring the world to the brink of destruction.

If you want to offer the player the opportunity to take one "side" or the other, you have to rework the standard way that stories are told. Because while most players want to be able to see and play a story from both sides if that's an option, few players will feel good for very long about doing what the game implies (through its direction and tone) is villainous or wrong. Therefore, you have to make sure that you tell your story in a way that will never make the player feel like they made the "wrong" choice about which side to take. I can think of two ways to do this:
  1. You can frame each side as a faction that has mostly good people and a just cause (even if both just causes are diametrically opposed). The factions are in conflict, but neither side is really portrayed as heroes or villains on the whole. In doing so, be sure that your (playable) characters are painted in a relatively heroic (or, at worst, gray) light. Make the player feel like they're controlling characters that want to do "right".
  2. You can branch the way that you tell the story once the player chooses one side or the other to join. Now that the player has chosen one faction or the other, you can start painting them more as heroes, and their enemies more as villains. Change the editorial bias, the focus, and even some of the minor events that take place in the plot, to firmly establish heroes and villains. Show personal stories, rescue of innocents, and idealistic causes from the heroes. Show wonton destruction or murder, expendability, and cynical causes from the villains.
Top one won't work, but the second one can be easily done with a few small changes to the story. I have to ask, what do you mean by "the game implies"? Do you mean a game where 80% of the game is with the good guys saying how evil the other is?
 

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I have to ask, what do you mean by "the game implies"? Do you mean a game where 80% of the game is with the good guys saying how evil the other is?
I sure hope not!! That would be awfully on-the-nose. There are a lot of ways that you can shade characters or groups as villains without having characters outright talk about how evil they are. A few common tricks:
  • Visual effects (dress them in dark colors, cloak them beneath helmets or menacing-looking suits so their faces are never seen, etc.)
  • Editorial bent (careful selection of what to show - for example, long shots of locations ruined by the villains' ambitions, set to sad music)
  • Personality traits (having them laugh when they kill an enemy to show sadism, or monologue about how the rules don't apply to them to show megalomania/egotism)
  • Setting (make their headquarters ominous, forbidding, and/or artificial by way of cues like architecture, lighting, and music; if they are rule the masses by force, make those masses poor, destitute, and desperate; if the masses are the "evil" faction, show the player almost none of their story or personality at all)
In a genuine two-sided conflict, these are all things that could be done believably by a talented writer/director/game-designer/artist/etc. to imply to the audience that one side is the "villain", without even changing anything significant about the plot or saying "they're evil". The audience will see these things and - if it's done effectively - they will not only know that their adversaries are evil, but they will feel it too. But note that another talented writer/designer/etc. could create a second story with the same exact overarching plot which uses the same techniques on the other side!!

Using the US-Japan WW2 conflict as an examples once more, there are a lot of good people, and some bad people, fighting in both sides of that war. If you were making a narrative work about the war, you could choose to focus heavily on the heroic American soliders unselfishly fighting for the freedom and independence of all nations in the world. America looks like the good guys. You could also choose to focus heavily on the death and destruction America wrought on small children in Hiroshima. America looks like the bad guys. Both things happened in the "plot" of the war. But direction, editorial bent, and aesthetics can completely change the way it's framed. That's kind of what you want to try to pull off if you're giving the player a choice of which side to take at any point before the final scene, and you also want to clearly establish heroes and villains - you should try to put a different "frame" on the same plot using these techniques.
 

Lord Vectra

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I sure hope not!! That would be awfully on-the-nose. There are a lot of ways that you can shade characters or groups as villains without having characters outright talk about how evil they are. A few common tricks:
  • Visual effects (dress them in dark colors, cloak them beneath helmets or menacing-looking suits so their faces are never seen, etc.)
  • Editorial bent (careful selection of what to show - for example, long shots of locations ruined by the villains' ambitions, set to sad music)
  • Personality traits (having them laugh when they kill an enemy to show sadism, or monologue about how the rules don't apply to them to show megalomania/egotism)
  • Setting (make their headquarters ominous, forbidding, and/or artificial by way of cues like architecture, lighting, and music; if they are rule the masses by force, make those masses poor, destitute, and desperate; if the masses are the "evil" faction, show the player almost none of their story or personality at all)
In a genuine two-sided conflict, these are all things that could be done believably by a talented writer/director/game-designer/artist/etc. to imply to the audience that one side is the "villain", without even changing anything significant about the plot or saying "they're evil". The audience will see these things and - if it's done effectively - they will not only know that their adversaries are evil, but they will feel it too. But note that another talented writer/designer/etc. could create a second story with the same exact overarching plot which uses the same techniques on the other side!!

Using the US-Japan WW2 conflict as an examples once more, there are a lot of good people, and some bad people, fighting in both sides of that war. If you were making a narrative work about the war, you could choose to focus heavily on the heroic American soliders unselfishly fighting for the freedom and independence of all nations in the world. America looks like the good guys. You could also choose to focus heavily on the death and destruction America wrought on small children in Hiroshima. America looks like the bad guys. Both things happened in the "plot" of the war. But direction, editorial bent, and aesthetics can completely change the way it's framed. That's kind of what you want to try to pull off if you're giving the player a choice of which side to take at any point before the final scene, and you also want to clearly establish heroes and villains - you should try to put a different "frame" on the same plot using these techniques.
Ahhh, thanks for clariifying.
 

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I think it can certainly be interesting if done well, but can go horribly awry if done poorly.

I think there are a few key elements that determine whether or not it works well; specifically tone, moral ambiguity, faction motivation, & character motivation.

To begin with, your stories tone can has great impact upon how willing some players are, to "join the darkside" as it were. Some players really don't "Role Play" in their RPGs, they play how they would would feel compelled to act in real life, the "I don't play as Renegade Shepard" types. So the tone of the story will greatly impact how willing they are to side with the villain.

If you are going for a comical & lighthearted tone, where the villain's FIENDISH EVIL MASTER PLAN (cue evil laugh) amounts to stealing all the CDs to his favorite KPOP idol band & holding them ransom for private performance, your player can readily explore being a minion to this "Big Evil" without any attending more conflict. Because at the end of the day, the "evil" is a silly kind of evil.

If on the other hand the big bad wants to reduce the world to a flaming nuclear cinder, transport the planet to some hell dimension for an eternity of surprise butt sex from tentacle monsters, or commit planetary wide genocide with his giant planet killing space laser; well you're going to have a much harder time writing it in a way that anyone other than the kind of edge lords that frag their teams for the lols will play.

Which is why if you're going to have a more serious tone, with real consequences, you need a degree of moral ambiguity in the world your characters inhabit, so that there are actual conflict between the choices. Preferably, one more complex than the depress left trigger to give orphans candie, press right trigger to burn down orphanage for the lols.

One of the best ways to do that is to explore the faction motivations, what they are hoping to achieve, when did they decide to pursue that goal, why do they want to achieve it, how did they decide on the current course of action to achieve those goals, who has convinced them that course of action was the best one, etcetera. Your player can't relate to the "villains" unless there is something relatable about them. I.e. they have to be more complex than "have spiky black armor, will mayhem".

Finally the character motivations for the player character have to be able to square with the villains motives & goals. In my experience this usually works best one of two ways:

1) Have the player character be enough of a tabula rasa that the player can imprint their desired psychology onto the player character. Good examples of this kind of mechanic are the Elder Scrolls games were your character starts out in jail or in custody, with virtually no mention of his or her background.

2) Have the character have an overarching goal, that can be reached via multiple methods, & the player gets to decide how they want their character to achieve it. A good example of this mechanic would be the mass effect series, where Shepard has a defined backstory, yet you can determine how Shepard decides to do things.

The idea of the protagonist siding with the villain, has to believable based on what you've shown the player previously about the protagonist.
 

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Are we allowed to post about non-RPG Maker games? And, if so, would any of you be interested in a short, proof of concept type non-euclidian puzzle game?
I should realize that error was produced by a outdated version of MZ so that's why it pop up like that
Ami
i can't wait to drink some ice after struggling with my illness in 9 days. 9 days is really bad for me,i can't focus with my shop and even can't do something with my project
How many hours have you got in mz so far?

A bit of a "sparkle" update to the lower portion of the world map. :LZSexcite:

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