Silver Town (Final Version)

potatocat

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I'm always happy to hear feed back.  I am glad you enjoyed it.  Bruin must have said something you didn't skip that was not welcomed, I'll go through his dialogue again and see what prompted that sort of a response.

The bounty board is currently a stand in.  There wasn't enough time to implement it this build, so I left it out.  I see your point here, perhaps I should add on to the bar.

You are the first one to mention the riddles, which means you are probably the furthest along out of all the people trying the game =3 Congrads.  This is disconcerting, as I wanted to make them challenging, but not impossible.  I think what needs to happen is make the clues more obvious.  If you are having that much difficulty with the riddles I obviously didn't give good enough clues for them.  

I felt the majority of them were simple, but due to the skipping text it may have made things harder that necessary.  The clock puzzle for example.  It rotates with a morning action and an evening action, and since there are an even amount of clues it ends on evening.
 Lamia will just need to tone it down a little is all.
 The majority of people feel the same about the signs, and I will be eventing in to the boarder edges something that will prompt a choice rather than having to interact with a sign post.  This should be too difficult to do.

Skipping text is my biggest issue to date.  I will have to seek some help at this point as Galv's script isn't working for me.  Right now my scripter and I are looking for a solution.

That is odd about Shade.  She was suppose to join at the second to last floor mid battle during the spider fight to rescue Emmet and Willard, and then explained how and why she was there.  I'll be sure to look at that.

I'm overjoyed you liked the humor.  I wanted things to feel very natural and flowing.  It's a shame about the skipping text linked to shift.  I'm happy the majority of implemented ideas felt good and were enjoyed.  I am glad we are like minded in that regard about DnD.

*

It looks like I've gotten everything I possibly can get feedback wise out of this build.  There is a great deal of improvement that needs to happen, and I think removing the current build might be the best option at this point to allow me to get back to work rather than keep answering the forums.  I'll give 24 more hours for people to download the Alpha/Demo if they wish to do so.  Afterwards I'll be removing it in the interests of getting back to fixing things. 
You think... Maybe you could pm me the answer to the clock riddle and how it makes sense...? I'd like to get past it if possible. You know, to see what material is past that.
 

ChaoticLapras

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You think... Maybe you could pm me the answer to the clock riddle and how it makes sense...? I'd like to get past it if possible. You know, to see what material is past that.
I found Lamia's riddles easy, and quite fun! Unfortunately, I can't remember the answers...

@palladinthug No! Don't remove the demo! :( The thread is hot now :D All thanks to me, as potato was welcomed by me, and probably saw the link in my sig!
 

potatocat

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I found Lamia's riddles easy, and quite fun! Unfortunately, I can't remember the answers...

@palladinthug No! Don't remove the demo! :( The thread is hot now :D All thanks to me, as potato was welcomed by me, and probably saw the link in my sig!
Lel. Indeed this thread was found through you, but it's the D&D-esque content that made me check it out.
 

ChaoticLapras

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@potatocat Oh yeah!

@palladinthug Just thought I'd mention the lighthouse bug again, as I put it in an edit and am unsure if you saw it - if you go to the lighthouse before the quest Emmet repeats something over and over.... :( I had to restart my game ages ago...
 

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*The current Alpha/Demo (That was fixed from the journal entry mistake at Wolfe's joining) has been removed until I can better ensure quality of build.*

 

It's been a very busy week with New Years, and my work is cut out for me thanks to the generosity of all those interested.  You've spent less than a week giving me a great deal of feedback in one form or another and it's my turn to honor that time spend with revisions to content.  This means I need time to correct these glaring errors and give you something worthwhile to try again.  This means I need a minimum of 2 months time to incorporate the changes.

 

@ Chaotic Lapras I did indeed see it and remembered how disappointed you were.  So I changed to the conditions for visiting the lighthouse map to only transfer you there if you posses the key, which means Willard is in tow and Emmet won't blather on for eternity.  That should fix things for the moment.

 

Latest Updates(Unreleased current build):


Animations have been speed up significantly.  

Battle Message Speed has been speed up significantly.

Battles have been adjusted to run faster for trash.  

 

Lighthouse:

-Energy beings, faeries, and lost crystal energies don't travel in groups of 3 anymore.

-Care taker chest only has 1 lost crystal energy.

-Faeries no longer heal themselves or others.

-The rats in the lighthouse are reduced to 2 per encounter at most.

 

Sleep has had it's effectiveness risen by 25%.

Common Event scene holder has been added to allow Staves to be used to heal in the menu without dropping to the map and allow multiple uses in the same scene.

(Thank you for the suggestion =3 )

 

Warp now clears all weather effect in the common event with a fade out, fade in between transitions.

 

*TEXT SKIP = :A from the yanfly name tag script has been set to nil for the moment(Shift will no longer skip to the next text box).  

It can be made into TEXT_SKIP = :B instead (X Button by default instead) should people wish to have it to skip through scenes at a later date.

I did not read this script's instructions in it's entirety.  Lesson learned.

 

Maps are undergoing a consolidation/shrinkage to better accommodate focus and preferred game play. 

 

4 songs were eliminated and one was replaced.  I'm currently searching for 3 more songs to replace the eliminated ones.

This will take some time as I like to ensure the song fits the mood and the area.  Light in the Darkness, an original song

by AshleyAley will replace the light house's previous remix.

 

I wanna thank everyone that provided feedback for me to act upon, and right now I'll be busy for the next month or two implementing what needs to be fixed.

Shade's portraits and the Tiger Merchant's portraits are being sketched.  This is an ongoing process.

Wolfe's Portraits are being altered.

Emmet's Emo Sheet will have several edits made.

Tiger Merchant Sprite Sheet completed.



 

Priorty: 


*Add choice of venue to common events for leaving, or moving throughout the town's boarder.

*Redesign town: Nobles in the back, shanties on the fringes, and the market place in one sitting where the player can easily get to everything and 

everyone's unique gear.

*Fix the issue with Warping from forest directly to the Lighthouse Save point. (Minimal effort)

*Establish trash battles to be less tiresome, or warrant effort for rare items.

*Reserve Journal Entries on information only after witnessing an action or experiencing a battle that references it.

*Add cut scenes that allow the player to witness the social division and set a foundation before the first dungeon.

Possibilities that are on the table:

-Tiger Merchant abused and stock destroyed.

-Emmet witnessing humans setting fire to the slums.

-Orc elder assaulted with Shade stepping in to protect.

*Intro with sepia sketches that introduce the player to the world and the last war.  Something fitting with a hand drawn world map.

Introduction music is currently removed, and will be replaced ASAP.



 

Low Priority:


Add the Message board system and all accompanying quest.  There will be screen shots as well as the reward system posted.

Bromides of all characters.

A hand drawn Title Screen to go with the title and icon.

Fleshed out NPCs.

Parallax mapping (Mage Guild Completed as a test.  Moving onto consolidating small and large INN into one Medium sized building towards the entrance of town.

Where travelers would see it more easily.)

Tower of St. Cuthburt and Citadel of Pelor will be moved to the center of Town to fit with midevil traditions.

Blacksmith's workshop will be shrunk down significantly as he is the only worker for the beastmen.  Human blacksmith will be nicer.

Gunslinger/Frontiersman will be added to the bar.

custom edits and recolors are being made to add to maps.

Reward people who gave critical feedback with little Easter eggs/NPCs that mirror them and their messages.



 

 

What cannot yet be determined:  


Refinement takes time and I'll need to test this more rigorously than the other aspects.

Willard is a one man army.  (His damage is a little too high due to being extremely versatile from staves.  

The mag stat calculation from formulas in staves will be removed so he doesn't outshine Shade, only compliments her).

Shade is overpowered. (Her damage is a lot too high.  Send chocolate, she will need it after the nerf bat).

Emmet is a floor decoration. (He seemed to die a lot, we'll boost his defenses and remove his "spells" in exchange.  This means

after he dons the fragments his def and mag resist will increase by 10% more, and his base def and mag resist will be 20% more for a total

of cumulative 50% more defenses.  Word of Law, Sanctify, and Consecrate will go where all other holy spells go when they die).



 

Estimated time to completion of a more fleshed out Alpha/Demo will be March 9th, and I will be posting the build then with some hopefully

updated maps and improved functionality.  Please understand I want to provide the same quality in game making that you provided in feedback.

I cannot do the changes overnight, and leaving an inferior build up helps no one.  I've gotten everything you could possibly give me 

from this build and answering and admitting the same concerns  a dozen more time will not change that.  I need to act on these changes.

 

To accommodate interest and show screen shots etc I will be starting a blog on this site.  Hopefully that can keep people interested, and

provide insight to changes as time progresses.

 

I also need to update the screen shots to all show the same font.  I have not forgotten.  My recent tooth extraction left me woozy with the painkillers and my attention was needed on both forums with PMs and other obligations.
 

potatocat

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Low Priority:

Reward people who gave critical feedback with little Easter eggs/NPCs that mirror them and their messages.



 

 

What cannot yet be determined:  

Willard is a one man army.  (His damage is a little too high due to being extremely versatile from staves.  

Shade is overpowered. (Her damage is a lot too high.  Send chocolate, she will need it after the nerf bat).

Emmet is a floor decoration. (He seemed to die a lot, we'll boost his defenses and remove his "spells" in exchange.  This means

after he dons the fragments his def and mag resist will increase by 10% more, and his base def and mag resist will be 20% more for a total

of cumulative 50% more defenses.  Word of Law, Sanctify, and Consecrate will go where all other holy spells go when they die).




Low Priority: *crosses fingers with hope*

What cannot yet be determined: Shade was perfect, IMO, and I never really used Willard all that often because Word of Law decimated all the baddies most of the time.
 

Dalph

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What the...wait, there was an alpha demo of this game? Damn...I missed it.

I'm looking forward to playing it however, I like the demi-human characters and the custom artwork.
 
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ChaoticLapras

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Low Priority: *crosses fingers with hope*

What cannot yet be determined: Shade was perfect, IMO, and I never really used Willard all that often because Word of Law decimated all the baddies most of the time.
Actually, I found Shade was overpowered - she dealt WAY more damage than Emmet on everything, and magic was v. cheap, especially with her regen of mp.

What the...wait, there was an alpha demo of this game? Damn...I missed it.

I'm looking forward to playing it however, I like the demi-human characters and the custom artwork.
If you REALLY wanted to, I'd be happy to send you my copy (without my saves), just drop me a PM.
 

ChaoticLapras

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I'll mention in my PM to him - I need to ask him something anyways -_-
 

Dalph

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Played it for a couple of hours until Pax Anthor

WARNING...HUGE FEEDBACK COMING! :)

My thoughts (for now):

You need to create a longer intro, because the game starts too fast...and it just doesn't look right this way.

As a character developer I can say that your characters are pretty good and well developed, Emmet is a real badass but I think Shade is my favourite, however you've done a nice job on almost all of them.

As a mapper I can say that the mapping needs more work, it's not that ugly but it's also not good (I hate being harsh pal, but a good critique is still better than a lie), especially in the Beast Part of Silver Town, the map is too big...too empty, reduce its size and add more stuff and decorations.

I love the humour, the irony and the references in the dialogues (I lol'd at Gandalf's quote), it's so entertainting to read them...I had a lot of fun most of the time.

The battles are...I admit that I'm not a fan of random battles but it's ok, but if you use random battles I suggest you to reduce the number of enemies, because the combat becomes frustrating this way (I mean even 5 enemies per battle...WTF? It's boring).

Speaking about the bosses...they're challenging enough, I think I got lucky with the Emperor's Lacky guy, I thought I was supposed to lose against him.

And I think you should remove the save option from the menu and add it only on the savepoints (what's the point of save everywhere and then save there? It's useless).

What's that item that increases the level of everyone? Is that for some sort of testing purposes? I didn't use it however, I don't like cheating. :p

The music choice is good, I like those themes, I don't know where they're coming from but I've recognized something used also in Legionwood 2.

And Never Gonna Give You Up? ahahahah, awesome...I felt...kinda...rickrolled in that inn. XD

BUGS\ERRORS:

- In the sewers when you jump in the waterfalls to press the blue button\switch thing the characters disappear.

- There are a few spelling mistakes and some words are out of the dialogue window (forgot where exactly, sorry about that...).

I don't remember anything else of relevance.

Some useful hints for mapping:

1) Before using the tool, draw first (on a paper) a sketch of your map (it could be either a forest, or a city, or a dungeon...), this way you'll get a rough idea of what you will do with the tool.

2) Don't create too big maps! Big maps are ugly and boring as hell for a player! Just create small\medium connected (and detailed) maps.

My absolute maximum is 40x40 per map (but I hardly go over 35), remember that a well decorated 20x20 map looks a lot better than an empty 60x60 one.

3) Remember to keep the nature as random as possible, a city can be usually simmetric, but a forest no! A forest is completely random!

4) Take a look on Google on how the interior of an house should be decorated (make it comfortable for the people).

You can apply this rule for everything, just search inspiration. ;)

5) Take a look at the other RM games and see how the other developers do their maps (but don't copy them), just get a rough idea on how you have to create yours!

6) Practice! Practice! Practice! Good mapping skills require a lot of practice and effort and if you try a lot you will eventually learn.

----

Overall, I enjoyed it, the mapping needs certainly more work but despite this, the game is good and interesting, if you improve your mapping skills it will probably become a great game.

I usually ignore games with not good mapping, but your game is good, and I appreciate the effort you put on everything.

I will probably continue it tomorrow (or in the next 2-3 days) because I like the story and the characters and I'm curious to see what happens next.

It's a good work, it will become great with some improvements.
 
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Bonkers

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@Dalph  I agree.  It's better to be honest.

I've gone back over some of the criticism the past few days now that I am off the painkillers, and while some people are better at saying it than others most of what was said is the same.  Mapping is where I fall short.  I'm currently working to fix that, but I am "time poor" at the moment.  What was promised as a slow month for me to concentrate has proven to be very taxing and busy in just a few short days.

I have taken a look at other RM games, but I still find the same mistakes.  I also find windows on second floors, which point into people's bedrooms at the doors right alongside them.  This makes me assume the window peers into their rooms.  <<  I find that idea uncomfortable.

I've already started to look at floor plans, and posted a few versions of the mage guild's tent being redone.  I took the advice that was given, and before I posted the consolidation of the two INNs into a medium size one certain custom elements are being explored and shown in the WIP thread.

I couldn't agree more about sketching things out ahead of time.  Now that I have the experience to parallax and have seen how the maps work in terms of player traffic compared to development traffic, I can think more from the perspective of something seeing the material for the first time.  This is difficult since on most top down maps and floor plans they do not account the extra "10ft" a wall in ACE isometric 3/4 view will create, so it takes time to adjust that floor plan to accommodate the new view which can easily throw off dimensions.

Please do tell me if any other songs feel like remixes.  My google fu is strong and if you look at the audio BGM folder for a moment it will make it that much easier.  Yes, I loved that one.  It seemed appropriate with who is keeping bar and waiting tables.  That one was intentional and properly credited.  Often young musicians forget to credit everyone involved or mark something properly as a remix.

Lackey:

Is the demon king disguised as a human, so I wanted him to be that curve before the Nexus.  I don't like unwinnable battles.  

They seem wrong, unless it directly states by the characters, "We shouldn't do this, we're taking a huge risk knowing who we are fighting."  As opposed to, "We have common sense.  We don't need to do this, cut our losses and run."  Running makes a bigger impact on me story wise than loosing in an unfair fight.  It lets the player retain control of the situation and still experience consequences because it was their choice to run.
As for the sewers, I should have made it more apparent.  When you step to the waterfall you go behind it.  I should try and make the player animation or sprite a blurry version to be more obvious with this.  This makes me rethink it a bit, thank you.  I've got a much clearer head now. I am overjoyed you had fun for a majority of your time playing, and a couple hours is very generous for such an early alpha.  

Thank you.  You got the benefit of non skipping text, I can only hope other people will feel the same next build I find the chance to release.

I was worried without the use of the level orb and chicken ring I'd scare people into thinking I was wasting their time if they didn't enjoy the encounters.  Thankfully it was optional and people who wanted to indulged to their maximum benefit( no matter how unnecessary it was).

Yes, the intro is currently being worked on.  Expect to see some WIP shots in the appropriate thread, and a blog entry Sunday or so when I've had a chance to get some personal matter attented too.

Thank you, and you are in good company with Shade.  
She has the unanimous attention of all those that have played the game.  Not just because of her spells warp, Libra, and Teleport, but because she isn't the standard "I'm the girl for the sake of having one" character.  I like that she isn't restricted to the conventional weapons of a support character, that's Willard's staff to bear.  
He's so much the female support character element, that a few people even mistook Willard for being a girl.
Shade is a woman, demands no special treatment, can hold her own, and isn't the sort of person to sit doing nothing.
I find her to be a brat at times myself.  I don't let my bias interfere with her role in the story.  
(She is also getting her portrait worked on atm =3).
As for Emmet:
I don't think of him as a badass myself.  I see him as someone who has lost control.  He isn't the person making his own decisions, and that leaves him powerless.  So despite the armor, the mace, and the support characters he really is to me the least powerful person in the group.  I'm happy you did like him, writing for someone who isn't calling the shots or a leader himself is very hard.  He may come to the point of being a badass during the story later on, but for now he's very much hurting; and pushing forward.  Maybe because he lost both parents you think of him like Batman? =D
Save option was left thinking people would resent the idea of returning to town.  Thanks to Warp and Teleport working hand in hand I'll be adding a save option in INNs, and following you request under the priority catagorey.  
Random battles will require a great deal of time to improve, and they come next after mapping.  The fact no one liked them means something drastic has to change.  Incorporate strategy, use more random elements, or give them the "henchmen factor" of one round wonders.  At any rate, I've definitely failed here as well.  I'm not sure how to proceed, but I will be trying something more drastic.  I may even just forget about random encounters alltogether and make battles feel more scripted and planned like traditional DnD without the nusance of Random encounters between traveling to locations and dangerous locations.  I may even up the ante.  I cannot say this point.  Some advice would be appreciated.

I am most appreciative of your time spent on the game, and on the feedback.  
The response in general was a great deal more than I was expecting, and the surprise is very welcome.

The fact that so much was wrong and didn't seem right I still must have touched a few points that made the game worth it for some in it's current unrefined state.  That gives me hope for the next build.
 
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The Yank

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For battles, you could try side view scripts. Visually, many people prefer side view to the default front view. To avoid random battles, there is only one way- on screen encounters. I don't think there are other ways of removing random encounters for a turn based battle system.
 

Dalph

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Are you sure about the Parallax thing palladin?

Parallax is meant for advanced (and patient) mappers, and it requires at least 3 times more than normal mapping, I personally don't use it, I don't like spending a week for a single map.

Think well before doing it, it's not an easy task and can be boring as hell.

Take a look at Luchi's and Indrah's games, they follows my same rule (normal mapping) and still their maps looks a lot better than a lot of messed parallax ones.

-

Yeah, Shade is awesome and hilarious, you've done a great job on her, but as I said you are talented in character developing (I'm also a character developer myself so I can recognize talent when I see it).

There isn't much to complain about this, you're good.

About Emmet, I was talking about his appearance (I like the portrait and the sprite), and I particularly enjoyed his dialogues, even if he isn't a real badass he looks like one. :p

-

About the battles.

May I suggest you this thing?

http://yanflychannel.wordpress.com/rmvxa/field-scripts/active-battle-advantage/

This way the battles will be still random, but certainly more interesting.

I don't know about a sideview, there aren't a lot of enemy battlers for that (you have to rip them from other games), but you're a great artist, you can also manage to draw them by yourself.

-

I'll continue it tomorrow, probably for another couple of hours.
 

The Yank

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You don't need specific battlers for side view, we're not talking animated battlers here. Most side view scripts take the actor sprites on one side and the normal battlers on the other side. You simply have to position them in the troops tab.
 

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@The Yank
Side view battles won't stop the gameplay from being boring. You can make the best kind of rpg gameplay with no scripts at all (okay, one exception.)

Ace is very, VERY powerful, imo.

And then there's a point where you got to ask yourself, "is sideview just a gimmick? Is this *really* adding to my game?" 

@Dalph
I agree with Dalph when it comes to Parallax. You can do a lot with just the editor.

I've gone back over some of the criticism the past few days now that I am off the painkillers, and while some people are better at saying it than others most of what was said is the same.
I hope my critiques were somewhat clear. I won't lie and say I was patient with your project, though. Feel free to PM me for questions about RM and what not.  I still have a lot to improve on when it comes to my feedback vids.  BD
 
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Bonkers

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For battles, you could try side view scripts. Visually, many people prefer side view to the default front view. To avoid random battles, there is only one way- on screen encounters. I don't think there are other ways of removing random encounters for a turn based battle system.

You don't need specific battlers for side view, we're not talking animated battlers here. Most side view scripts take the actor sprites on one side and the normal battlers on the other side. You simply have to position them in the troops tab.
I'm hesitant to do this, as I cannot guarantee visual quality with the sprites for certain animations.  This also means significantly more spriting since each battler with require a skill use/magic casting pose and additional movement animations for skills as well.  Battlers will need more customizing, and resizing for certain.  In fact all of the battlers would need to be re-sized or edited in some way.  This will also require me to sprite "downed" positions for the characters, weakened positions, and a few more miscellaneous dodge or jumping positions to fully utilize the visual experience.  I am not willing to do that, due to my time constraints.  I'm sorry, it is a good idea, but it will not work for me.

But we are talking about battlers that were made to be seen directly ahead of us, coming towards us as opposed to attacking at the side, approaching us from the left or right in the same vein as final fantasy games.

@Dalph  I can understand that just working on a handful of maps right now.  My only other alternative is to be very careful with tile selection and customize all the tile sets.  I'm willing to make very efficient and full tile sets, and that editing process is something I am certainly use too.

I'll rethink my approach, and thanks for being a voice of reason.  To have to do that for another 30 maps would be killing me the more I think about it.
 

Engr. Adiktuzmiko

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I'm hesitant to do this, as I cannot guarantee visual quality with the sprites for certain animations. This also means significantly more spriting since each battler with require a skill use/magic casting pose and additional movement animations for skills as well.
I think he means even just a simple sideview system that does nothing but simply put actor battlers on the side... something like just using Yanfly's Visual battlers... no need for sprite animations or whatever...


but yeah, most of the battlers are looking down/front so they really need a bit of facing change in case you'd do sideview
 

The Yank

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You could leave the ones facing down and it would still look natural, only thing that would have to be edited would be the sprites that are facing left instead of right, and the size of some of them (like rats), all of which don't require much effort in photoshop. But I agree it won't fix the boring battle problem, it will just make it slightly more visually appealing.
 

Engr. Adiktuzmiko

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Even the ones facing down doesn't look good when in sideview battles... it looks weird fighting enemies that look down instead of looking at you...
 

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Besides my Might and Magic inspired project, I have always wanted to make a Fire Emblem-like game. Time is the culprit... Between life, composing music packs, and working on a game can it be done!? The tactical plugins for MV work quite well based on what I have tested.
Yaaay! My second public script is out and approved! A VX Ace Final Fantasy IX styled Throw Script!

I look forward to all the constructive feedback I get but most importantly I hope everyone who ends up using it enjoys!

Yaaaay! Making scripts is fun lol. :D
When you're lost out therrrrre and you're alllll alone, ahwahwah waitin, to carry you hooooommmme, uhhheverywhere you look! (someone hit me with those backing vocals)
X.X cant focus... too many thing want do... help!
Day 2 of teaching MV, student can move cat across the map.

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