Skill Trouble

WNxTyr4el

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As I make skills for classes, I'm having a real hard time figuring out how to make them unique for each class.  I haven't made many so far, but in doing so I've stumbled upon a question:

"What's the point in making different skills other than the default ones?  All you're doing is changing numbers and maybe the element it deals damage with..."

It's stumping me on how to make more advanced/unique skills for classes.  I've read that post in here about what you can do and some of the ideas there are good and I may use them in my next game (probably will), but for this one, I'm stumped on that question and what to do really.  I guess I can just use everything vanilla and see what game I make, but it'd be nice to have a few custom created things in there.  Any ideas?
 

Engr. Adiktuzmiko

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"What's the point in making different skills other than the default ones?  All you're doing is changing numbers and maybe the element it deals damage with..."
Because if all of us do that, then all games will have the same skills...
 

WNxTyr4el

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Because if all of us do that, then all games will have the same skills...
But I mean other than just changing #s and animations, it's all really the same isn't it?  Or am I just riding the short bus?
 

Engr. Adiktuzmiko

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That's still better than every game having the same skills that has the same name and values and animations right???

Seriously, if I go with your logic, then most skills are the same as they only do this: 

Play Animation

Damage target

Apply some kind of effect (Optional)

That's it... Even the database skills would be essentially the same, single skill...

or if you want, two skills, as you separate the skills that only deals damage, and those that has effects

And that's only if we go with your logic...

because clearly, there are a lot more things that you can apply to these skills when you edit them... your imagination is the key into making "personalized" skills...
 
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kerbonklin

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Well it all starts out with choosing what type of Skill-system to use for your game, which is usually based on the Battle System of choice.  How will skills function? What will they cost? How will you learn them? What are their limitations and restrictions? How can you balance them in the end?
 

WNxTyr4el

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Lol then that's my problem right there. Sorry for being stupid. I feel it definitely. You're right though. You gotta make them do different things. I just don't know what.
 

Engr. Adiktuzmiko

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I agree with kerbonklin, the types of skills that you can make will depend on the battle system that you would implement... 

Example: Skills for the default turn-based battle would be different than if you're gonna implement an Active Battle System like XAS...

If you only need ideas, then you should probably just say in the post:

I need skill ideas

then maybe add info about what the game's theme is and what battle system are you using...
 

WNxTyr4el

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It didnt start out like needing ideas but I guess I do. I'm just using the standard battle system (what's XAS?) and it's a fantasy RPG.
 

Engr. Adiktuzmiko

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XAS is an action battle system... 

what kind of fantasy RPG? fantasy is a big idea (we can suggest literally anything actually if you just say fantasy)... XD...
 
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WNxTyr4el

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Ohhh. I'll have to look it up. Is it something Ace can do or has been done? Anyway, it's just your typical fantasy game lol. Idk how else to describe it. Standard RPG classes and skills/magic. Using mostly the default database skills. But I'd like to customize them
 

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It is a script for Ace... by moghunter

it turns your battle system from the default turn-based into an active battle system (like God Of War, Kingdom hearts, etc) 
 
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WNxTyr4el

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Oh okay cool. I'll check it out. Got any skill ideas though? Maybe even effects they do or requirements or even damage numbers/formula ideas?
 

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I don't recommend it for beginners... it's quite complex...

most of the ideas that go into my mind needs custom scripts to work... things like a damage over time state that deals damage dependent on some stat for example...

or maybe you can try a super powerful sword skill, but might lower your stats by chance
 
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Tai_MT

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For personalized skills, you first need to consider two things:

1.  What is the character using the skill like.  What are their likes, dislikes, personality?  Are they a flashy person who likes to show off, or are they a hardened person who prefers decisiveness and speed over flair?

2.  How do you want your Classes to play?  Is your Mage a Glass Cannon?  Is your Knight imbued with elemental attacks?

When you answer these two questions, you can essentially answer "what skills should I make?".  I know, that sounds simplistic, but it tends to be true.  Just figure out who your characters are and what classes they will be.  Then, take into account their personalities and how they might apply that personality to their Class (or what is essentially their actual job that they would get paid for if your fantasy world were real).  Once you do that, it should be fairly easy to figure out which Classes and Characters take on which roles in battle.  Maybe some of your elements are even split up amongst multiple classes as some of the disciplines are harder to master (or impossible) for people with certain personalities, because it conflicts with the principles of the element (Think Aang from Avatar Last Airbender and his trouble with mastering Earthbending because he was an Airbender and his teachings involved dodging, approaching a situation from a different direction, employing tricks, and using your opponents' moves against them.  He couldn't get the hang of "direct attacks" that Earth employed because his attacks were all indirect or counters.).

You also need to decide a few things about the setting as well as the gameplay.  How powerful with status effects be?  How common is magic?  How common is healing magic?  How much healing can be done with magic?  How hard is it to harness skills and abilities?  What are the costs involved?  Setting plays a large role in determining what skills you create as well.

I'll give you some examples from my own game to try to get you started.

Soldier

Magic Knight

Witch

Paladin

Thief

Pirate

Cleric

Ranger

Necromancer

Seems like a lot of classes, doesn't it?  It's actually just the right amount for how my game plays.  It also ties into the storyline quite well.  But, that's neither here nor there.

Soldier has the skillset of "Adrenaline".  Most of his skills revolve around buffing himself, healing himself, and dealing out massive chunks of damage.  These skills all take a measure of TP, which must be built up over the course of a battle, unless you find good equipment that preserves TP.  Some of his more powerful skills also drop his HP by % amounts, which can kill him if used improperly.  The only "Multi-target" ability he has is simply a Battle Cry, which buffs ATK of his teammates.

Magic Knight has a skillset of both physical and magical blows.  Some of these skills are dependent on which weapons he is currently holding in hand, or which elemental abilities he has mastered.  He is capable of learning a physical elemental attack for every single element save for "Life" or "Death".  He gets to choose which of those two he wants later.  Most of his skills are single target, though there are a couple that are multiple target.

Witch has all our standard spells.  All she can do is cast spells.  Though, she can be tailored to one of two different ways of playing.  She can be turned into a "Utility Mage" who delights in adding status effects to enemies as well as making those effects really hurt.  Or, if a player prefers, she can be tailored to cast fairly powerful and strong magic that can wipe out enemies in single hits.  She only has access to elemental magic.  Though, she can't learn "Nature" magic.

Paladin has a skillset that relies entirely upon buffing the team.  The other skills offer resistances to elements or types of damage as well as abilities to demolish undead or dead beings.  The Paladin is not a tank, though can be played as one.  The Paladin also does not heal his party.  He merely prevents damage done to the team.

Thief has a skillset largely revolving around doing evil little backstabby thief things.  Inflicting status ailments is most common for this class.  Though, there are skills that utilize his Agility stat to do some fairly massive damage.  He's typically used for quick precision strikes or single-unit debilitations that poison or stun or sometimes cause bleeds.

Pirate is my resident "nuke" character.  That is to say, he carries a lot of abilities that revolve around doing lots of damage to multiple enemies.  He doesn't have a single "single target" skill in his list.  His job is crowd control and quick damage.  He does have weaknesses (namely against magic or agility type enemies), but in some situations, he's who you take to do a lot of damage in a short amount of time.

Cleric has no healing skills what-so-ever.  So, what does my Cleric do?  Cleric has skills that remove buffs from the enemy as well as provide cures to debuffs on the party.  The Cleric is also immune to ALL status effects.  Cleric can single-target enemies and multi-target allies.  MP Cost for curing allies is quite high though.

Ranger does a few things fairly well.  She is all about being a "Jack of all trades".  She's got a few debuffs, a few buffs, can single-target, multi-target, and sometimes heal the party for paltry amounts of HP.  Oh, and she's the only one who can initially cast Nature Magic.  She has skills for swords, daggers, long bows, and short bows.  Her skills are dependent on what you equip her with, which means she'll play according to how the player would want to play her.

Necromancer is the only one in the game with a mastery of the "Death" skills.  These skills typically are vampiric in nature and steal either HP or MP.  Some of them can also result in instant death for enemies who aren't immune.  These spells are also some of the most damaging in the game.  The downside being that they are also some of the most costly in the game to cast with very few spells even coming close to the costs.  Most of these spells are single-target and stay that way.

So, you see, it's just a matter of deciding on a few things before deciding what skills to make.  Skills depend on how you have your setting set up, on how you have the personalities of your characters set up, and how those characters execute their jobs.  It also boils down to what you'd like to do with the classes and what role you'd actually like them to fill in order to make skills for them.

You can easily start by setting up some "ground rules" for the class.  What can they cast, what can't they cast?  What types of skills do they learn?  What can't they learn?  Why?  Why not?  Set up some arbitrary parameters having to do with your classes.  Just like I have one with my Soldier Class in that it can only heal or buff itself and nobody else.  Just establish some ground rules for yourself and then try to work with or around those rules and encorporate that into the storyline.
 

WNxTyr4el

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That's a great list and some great ideas. I suppose I'd just need more skill effects/animations and sounds to pull all that off. Sounds like you'd be making all your own animations and skills. My question is - for your witch, how do you give the player the CHOICE of choosing which path to go down (utility or destructive)? I'd love to have that in mine too. Like two paths for each class that they get to choose at level 1 or another mile stone.
 

Tai_MT

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That's a great list and some great ideas. I suppose I'd just need more skill effects/animations and sounds to pull all that off. Sounds like you'd be making all your own animations and skills. My question is - for your witch, how do you give the player the CHOICE of choosing which path to go down (utility or destructive)? I'd love to have that in mine too. Like two paths for each class that they get to choose at level 1 or another mile stone.
Well... every class has the "choice" of how they can be played with their skills.  All of my classes can be played in at least two different ways.  How?  Why?  Well, the how is because my skills "level up" as you move along in the game and you choose the branch they take as you go along.  The why is because I wanted something a bit unique as well as interactive for the player.  Instead of getting Fire 2 to replace Fire 1...  Fire 1 can turn into Fire 2.  Or, it can turn into Fire 1 with a much higher chance to inflict the Burn status upon enemies.

It basically requires 15 copies of every single skill.  Since, the name of the skill doesn't really change, just the effectiveness of the skill by the user.  It's like how Mass Effect 3 did its skill system... Except I offer a lot more options.  Your skill starts at Level 1.  After you complete some kind of event or quest, the option comes up to ask you how you'd like to change your skill.  The initial options for Fire are "More Damage" or "Increases chance to inflict Burns".  There's no way to go back and take "More Damage" if you took "higher chance of burns" and vice versa.  Once you've picked, the game event removes the old "Fire" skill and replaces it with the new "Fire" skill, with the same name, but different effects.  Each choice gives you two more choices, until there are 8 total outcomes for the skill you could have had.

The real issues with it is just the balancing of the new skills as they "level up".  But, there are other ways you can accomplish the same form of "choice" in your game if you wanted.  You could simply offer players choices between certain skills to make the classes do whatever they liked instead.
 

WNxTyr4el

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That's interesting. I thought of leveling up skills too at first. An idea for my next game. How did you do that though? With eventing and scripting and whatnot?

Also, reading your descriptions of classes gave me some good ideas on how to tailor mine. I have a lot of work to do but I think I'm going to change up the classes and make some of their skills general, and some item based. Which isn't hard right? Just change what item the skill requires, right? And add the weapon type to the class? Not too hard
 
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Tai_MT

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I did the skill level up based on simple events.  Most of them level up either with certain locations that call an event or with the completion of Quests that call an event.  The event then offers the options.  I might change the system later to be some kind of "custom menu" within the game itself, but we'll see.  My project is currently quite large, and I hesitate to add more work to that load.

It's a matter of how you want the level up executed.  You can track a variable for it somewhere if you want, based on different things.  You could then have the variable activate a Common Event by switch that would call up a dialogue box and choice or something like that.  It wouldn't be too difficult to accomplish.

I try to avoid scripting where possible.  If I can accomplish something without a script, I do so.  It limits me sometimes, sure, but I like trying to create work-arounds for issues within the maker itself.  It satisfies me creatively.  Others feel different on the subject, and I don't blame them.  To each, their own.

Yes, you can make some skills require items to cast.  With RMVXAce, all it takes is to go into the "skills" and select the "weapon type" you want to use for the skill to even be able to be cast.  Just add the weapon type to the class, add the requirement of the weapon type to the skills that require it, and it'll work.
 

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As I make skills for classes, I'm having a real hard time figuring out how to make them unique for each class.  I haven't made many so far, but in doing so I've stumbled upon a question:

"What's the point in making different skills other than the default ones?  All you're doing is changing numbers and maybe the element it deals damage with..."

It's stumping me on how to make more advanced/unique skills for classes.  I've read that post in here about what you can do and some of the ideas there are good and I may use them in my next game (probably will), but for this one, I'm stumped on that question and what to do really.  I guess I can just use everything vanilla and see what game I make, but it'd be nice to have a few custom created things in there.  Any ideas?
If you want unique classes that do different things you need to know what each class means... some traditional RPG classes:

-Warrior: Overpowers foes with brute force and is good at taking hits. Make them sturdy, and give them plenty of damage options. Could offer support in ways by playing meatshield (drawing aggro).

-Ranger: Could be the guy in the back with a bow. Maybe give him some sniping skills (high single-target damage). Since he uses arrows he could perhaps use skills that upgrades his attacks to burning or poison arrows.

-Cleric: The party healer. Generally has low defences, and his job is to protect/heal teammates with holy magic. Could maybe also use the powers of light to hurt foes.

In my game, though, I don't use classes. Instead the characters are their own class, depending on their personalities. Every character gets ways to deal damage, support the party, and take care of his/herself. A basic breakdown of some of the characters:

-Roth: Uses lightning magic that is mostly focused on single targets. Offers offensive support through inflicting blinds and stuns. Can cast MP regen buffs on allies, and has a way to heal himself.

-Eldin: Uses light magic that is mostly high single target damage. Has several healing abilities to support the party. Can regain her own MP faster than normal.

-Thieme: Uses earth magic that is mostly multi-target. Has ways to support the party by increasing party defences. He has high survivability.

-Rage: Uses fire magic for high multi-target damage. His way of supporting the party is with the ability to grant offensive buffs to allies to increase firepower. Since his MP pool is quite low he has a way to restore his MP faster.

Other than that there'll also be skills that are not tied to the characters, but can be found in the world and unlocked on them for more build variety.

edit: Lol, just read the above posts. I also have a skill level-up system in my game. What it does is basically upgrading the same skill to a newer version every 5 levels to prevent a skill from becoming useless when the hero grows lots of levels. Each skill level up will increase its damage, add an effect, and/or change its costs to cast.
 
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WNxTyr4el

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How did you do the skill level up system?  It's seeming more and more like an idea for my game.  I know all about RPGs though.  I've been playing them for around 10 years now.  I'm just really confused and stumped on how to make every skill for every class unique in some way to THAT specific class and without recycling animations/sounds too much.  I understand that there aren't enough resources out there to not recycle SOME sounds and animations, but I don't want a lot of recycling.  I think today I'm going to go through each class and change the skills.  Possibly implement a weapon system for skills to require a weapon.

I'm just wondering really how to spice up the default skills I guess.  I really don't know what I want haha.  

I can send an unencrypted file if anyone would be willing to help me out with that.  Possibly look at what I have and give ideas/suggestions.  I'd appreciate it a lot, but it's not required if you dont want to.
 

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