Skills needed for a card game plugin. Please help with tips!

Annwfn

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Hello community, it's me again, Annwfn, with a kind request. I am willing to create an intricate card-based plugin for RPG Maker MV which I am willing to give an intricate AI, animations and whatever it needs to imitate a Yu-Gi-Oh! like TCG. What skills do you think I need to achieve this? What softwares will you recommend me to dive into, at least entry-level? The plugin is aimed to have the following:

<> an advanced AI that can adjust itself to most situations and be able to use the synergies I will implement in the various Decks.
<> card animations, maybe sprites floating above the cards themselves.
<> a "table" where the cards will be set, and mechanics to place them face-down, face-up and so.
<> card pictures and sprites - these are not mandatory, but will have to be fitted in. This is also a candidate as a project for the comprehensive Java course I am going through right now. I need the mechanics set up first, the rest can be filled with different placeholder pictures until I decide on real, final ones. Sprites would float above the cards, can be replaced with RPG Maker characters until later.

For the beginning I know I need to learn JavaScript, which I am diving into slowly but surely. So... any ideas? Thank you, and please provide me with many details ^^

Yours faithfully,
Annwfn
 

mlogan

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@Annwfn When you say software, do you mean software to help learn code or to make animations or what?
 

Annwfn

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Hello! Thank you for your swift answer! Yes, anything regarding that, coding included! But also to make easy, fast simple animations (not looking for professional ones necessarily).
 

ImaginaryVillain

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Visual Studio Code is my go to software for writing code, any art program can do animations, Krita's my usual art program, GIMP, Photoshop and Painter are other solid options. Poryg has some decent tutorials to get you into Javascript https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOUwC0sn8jb83Gn3mos5lEg besides that the "Learning Javascript" board here is a good place to pick up scripting knowledge. As for decent animation tutorials, I'd just run a search on Youtube for 2D animation tutorial.

There are also a couple of card game plugins you may wish to look at https://forums.rpgmakerweb.com/index.php?threads/stv-plugins-stv_monstercards.80301/ and https://atelieririna.itch.io/collectible-card-game though the second one is not free, and has potential lag issues from what I hear.
 

Zekken

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You can also take a look at the Tomoaky card game plugin :
Wrote in Japanese, but you can translate it.
If you want to create a floating monster, maybe you can take a look at this plugin and make a compatibility with it :

Btw I really interested for your plugin, have search it for a long time. Are you gonna release it for public? If yes, please contact me.
 

Annwfn

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Hello! Thank you very much for the swift answers! I know of Atelier Irina's plugin, I own it! And have tested Monster Cards as well. Just because I need a functional project I think I will take a look at how they were also designed code-wise, just to get an idea, cause I am intending to create my own code, though I might need to see others' references, since I am a beginner in JavaScript.

I have not started working for it, since I am interested in what I need to learn towards its own creation. I need the project till end of May. So I kind of need to really start working towards it. I hope I will be able to create a functional part at first (like the AI to work and the animations to be in), mainly the skeletal part - to which I can add sprites and pics and sounds, etc.

With regards to programming languages, is JavaScript the only one I will need for this? Or would others be needed? Am interested to know, so I can arrange my time and see how to make good use of it.
 
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mlogan

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@Annwfn This threadis a bit tricky since you're really asking multiple things in one thread, even if it is all related. We try to keep things to specific areas of the forums for a few reasons, but largely so that members helping know it is something they can help with and also so that other users searching for answers can better find what they are looking for, if it's already been answered.

Since your original post primarily talks about creating a plugin and that you want to learn to create them, I'm going to move this to Learning Javascript.

As for everything else, if you are looking for programs to help you with artwork/animations, etc, I suggest that you post about that part only (leave out the Javascript/plugin stuff) in Useful Development Tools. I hope that makes sense.
 

Raizen

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Hello friend!



You can also study mine if you do wish to ^^



Its open and has an AI based on Mini-Max and Decision trees.



Now about the skills, since I am on my third card game (you can check my signature for the one I'm working today). I will talk only about the code part.



First of all, what is the level of animations you want to achieve? This is probably the second hardest part I work with when I am doing a CCG. The ones I used on Triple Triad were more basic ones, the ones in my project are more "professional like" with perspectives, particle effects and distortions in images to create effects also. If you want nice effects you will have to learn after Javascript itself, how to implement libraries and work with them. I chose the ones that work with PIXI since there are a bunch of libraries that do those nice effects. I suggest learning a lot Javascript, doing some code your own, messing with arrays and images and then start trying to implement these third-party libraries. Done all that, which can take some time depending on how much you dedicate to it, you will build your game. The AI is the last possible thing to do on the CCG, so I would not worry by now, but it will likely also be the hardest part depending on the complexity of your card game. I can't say a technique to use for it since it depends completely on the rules of your game, but once you got to know JS, got to code on it, manipulate images, import libraries, after ALL that, you can start to check on AI heuristics and technicques. There are a bunch of them and some will or might not work for your CCG.

After I said all that, I can tell you, its not easy on the code part to make this type of game, but if you dedicate a lot of time to learn all that I think you will have no problem to construct the game the way you want it!
 

Annwfn

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Well, would like to try this as a project for the Java course I am in (intricate course, will do some JS through it as well as HTML and CSS throughout it) ad the course ends on end of May, when my project has to be completed. Am interested in having at least a skeletal part for it, mainly to work: have a decent AI, animations wouldn't necessarily be mandatory. Once I have this, I can actually move forward to the greater parts:

<> brilliant AI to adapt to the situations (most accent to be placed here). Card effects will be somewhat intricate, since I intend to at least somewhat replicate a Yu-Gi-Oh! battle system, with different invocation situations and rules, alongside my imagination. Like for example, I have a deck idea whose mechanic is simple: if you lost, you forgot something. It has something that will pop up for like literally 95% of the situations, making sure you will not lose. However, it takes long for it to win, doesn't have too good offense, and it's basic functions are combos: one after the other. I cannot create simple things, but am willing to start with something simple :D

<> animations: don't have to be too cheeky. I can go with the base ones in the game for the beginning, though am still unsure if the teacher will accept my project. If not, I will have much more time to focus on it (since it's no longer limited to end of May) but will probably take longer to create since I will have to focus on another project until then, which may actually be a lot simpler. I will take a look at your card game, and be noticeable of the different mechanics. I might add something new to my imagination's repertoire. Never too late to learn something new.
 

Annwfn

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Hello friend!



You can also study mine if you do wish to ^^



Its open and has an AI based on Mini-Max and Decision trees.



Now about the skills, since I am on my third card game (you can check my signature for the one I'm working today). I will talk only about the code part.



First of all, what is the level of animations you want to achieve? This is probably the second hardest part I work with when I am doing a CCG. The ones I used on Triple Triad were more basic ones, the ones in my project are more "professional like" with perspectives, particle effects and distortions in images to create effects also. If you want nice effects you will have to learn after Javascript itself, how to implement libraries and work with them. I chose the ones that work with PIXI since there are a bunch of libraries that do those nice effects. I suggest learning a lot Javascript, doing some code your own, messing with arrays and images and then start trying to implement these third-party libraries. Done all that, which can take some time depending on how much you dedicate to it, you will build your game. The AI is the last possible thing to do on the CCG, so I would not worry by now, but it will likely also be the hardest part depending on the complexity of your card game. I can't say a technique to use for it since it depends completely on the rules of your game, but once you got to know JS, got to code on it, manipulate images, import libraries, after ALL that, you can start to check on AI heuristics and technicques. There are a bunch of them and some will or might not work for your CCG.

After I said all that, I can tell you, its not easy on the code part to make this type of game, but if you dedicate a lot of time to learn all that I think you will have no problem to construct the game the way you want it!
Hello again! Played through your lil' card game project! I liked the animations but it's not what I'd go for. Though, the idea of drag-and-droppin' your own card from the side "deck" is actually very interesting. My idea would have pre-built decks for the player, since I don't like the idea of putting them to grind. It's gonna be somewhat of an "accidental" part of the Chapter I am working on. Meaning it will be a part of it, or should be so.

The mechanics would imply invoking the cards from hand in face-up ATK position/ DEF position (including face-down), similar to Yu-Gi-Oh, and having a "table" unto which the battles will occur. Creating some floating sprites above the cards would also be a nice feature I am aiming for.

The "life" mechanics would be based on one of two principles: either Life Points: like in Yu-Gi-Oh! or more around "sacrificial life points". This refers that you pay off of own Life Points to summon and use stuff, as well as cause indirect damage to the enemy player (a rule would be attacks don't go towards the enemy player, but losing cards also drains own HP).

And decks? They will be premade, a few readily accessible to the player, I don't want to spend time on building deck-building and customisation. I don't want to have the players go through insane grind, just step in and join the fun, while unlocking the decks of the characters they defeat after they defeat them.
 

MiD

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Hello community, it's me again, Annwfn, with a kind request. I am willing to create an intricate card-based plugin for RPG Maker MV which I am willing to give an intricate AI, animations and whatever it needs to imitate a Yu-Gi-Oh! like TCG. What skills do you think I need to achieve this? What softwares will you recommend me to dive into, at least entry-level? The plugin is aimed to have the following:

<> an advanced AI that can adjust itself to most situations and be able to use the synergies I will implement in the various Decks.
<> card animations, maybe sprites floating above the cards themselves.
<> a "table" where the cards will be set, and mechanics to place them face-down, face-up and so.
<> card pictures and sprites - these are not mandatory, but will have to be fitted in. This is also a candidate as a project for the comprehensive Java course I am going through right now. I need the mechanics set up first, the rest can be filled with different placeholder pictures until I decide on real, final ones. Sprites would float above the cards, can be replaced with RPG Maker characters until later.

For the beginning I know I need to learn JavaScript, which I am diving into slowly but surely. So... any ideas? Thank you, and please provide me with many details ^^

Yours faithfully,
Annwfn
Before i begin, sorry for the long reply, i tried to be as helpful as i can. Also sorry if this all sounds "disheartening" it was in no way my intention.

In my experience, if you are just diving into programming, it will be quite difficult to do *exactly* what you want it to do, assuming you want to do it yourself (the AI part for example,AIs are always difficult), also assuming you want to do it with RPGMaker (concerning animations for things like "hovering"). My 2 cents will be to simplify what you're asking for, (i know it won't be an exact answer to your questions), and find ways to go "around" the problems that will present themselves.

I can't tell you what you should do to achieve your end-goals, other people in here are more suitable to answer this than i am. However, before you manage to achieve your end-goals, you should - in my humble opinion - have shorter achievable goals. Below i have written some steps you could follow before you can look at your end-goal. Treat these as an example of what your creation process should look like, rather than a guide. I am not a game developer, but these are the things i've found out when creating mini-games for my game (i have adjusted them to make more sense for your game).

1. Create the rules: First create the foundations of your game. Simply write down, in a diagram, the phases (phase 1: draw card, phase 2: play attack card, phase 3: play trap card, or whatever), so that you know what the player can do in each phase. Don't think about the AI straight away, or very complicated things. You can simply add phases or fine-tune phases later on. But at least, you should have the foundations. Draw.io is a good program for that and it's free - that's how i do my diagrams.

2. Set in stone what is the LEAST each phase MUST consist of, for the game to make sense. So for example, if you're spending resources, there must be a way to gather them. That's what i mean by this. If, like you say, it's a play-card-damage-opponent, then just make 1 card that damages the opponent.

3. After all this has been laid down, you need an interface. I would suggest not to think too big for now, simply make a way for the cards to be drawn and played. As far as i'm concerned, the animations can come in later. I am also assuming this is the first mini-game you're making. There are some plugins that allow "clicking", i would suggest Yanfly's one, because it doesn't register clicks when the text box is present. So if you want to click on a "deck" and this will mean drawing a card, you would want an event which, when clicked, produces a random card (or maybe it's preset, that would need additional work). Well, for now, it can only produce 1 card, the one made in step 2.

As for their sprites, I would personally add rpgmaker characters (Yanfly's spawn event plugin is pretty handy, you can select regions of spawning events, etc.).

4. Now program in the simplified mechanics. The phases, and what a player can do in each phase. After this step you have an extremely simple manner to play your game. I would say now is a good time to add a few cards (i'd say 5 at most) and start making the AI.

5. "advanced" AI that can "adjust" itself: This is a big one. The words i put in quotes have a general meaning and don't reflect what exactly you have in mind.

To solve this, since we have made the rules, I would try to make a system of conditions to simulate a player that plays the best way possible: For example, as a player, what is the most important thing to look for? If it's "A" then A is the first thing the AI must always attempt to do before it goes to B. For example "A" could be "always attempt to make the player lose life without losing your own". To do this, you must first have ALL the rules set. This, in essence, means setting in stone whatever a player can do each turn (draw card, sacrifice card, play card, play spell, tap card, play resource, whatever).

Then you can go to exceptions: If "A" is possible, what are the reasons that the AI should not do "A"(even though we said it's the most important) and go to "B" instead? In my previous example "A" was "always attempt to make the player lose life without losing your own". An exception to this would be "unless it means defeating the player". Then an exception to this exception would be "unless it means also killing yourself" (or you could make kamikaze opponents that don't have this last exception). Anyway, you get my point.

However, always keep in mind that the AI will do some "stupid" things sometimes, simply because AIs are not that easy to fine-tune. You are also going to need testers: It's very difficult to find every single bug on your own. A player can do random stuff sometimes.

I would personally make a "stupid" AI that always plays any card it has, make sure everything works correctly, and then move on from there and add to them.

6. Remember, now we have a way to play the game, even though it's crude right now. There are no animations, there are just 5 cards, and the AI is as transparent as can be, but it's certainly play-able. This is what i meant by shorter achievable goals in the beginning.

Now that we have a pre-alpha version of the game, you have to decide what is the most important thing to go for from here. You can

6.i) add more possible cards, different types, and how they work with each other. You talked about "synergies". Although i don't know what that is, i am assuming that you mean, for example, if 1 card is played after another, they both double their damage. So make at least 1 version of that, so that you know it works. Always add these new possibilities to the AI.

6.ii)Make the "face down" mechanic you talked about (something like traps, i'm assuming?) This might mean an entire new phase on their own (between playing the card and calculating its damage). Again, the AI must be able to do this too.

6.iii) add animations to drawing and playing cards.

If you followed this logic up to this point, you will have realized that letting the player decide where to place the cards on the board is quite difficult. I would suggest you do this automatically and get back to it after the game reaches at least an alpha state. You will have also noticed that adding animations is probably the least important thing before the game's mechanics are at least close to what you would want the game to be played like : What i mean is that you should first have a playable game and THEN make it beautiful. Because when you go to animations, you will have to code them in. So it's best to know what you can touch and what you should never touch out of the already created code, so that the game never becomes unplayable because of that.

For example, when the animation plays, does the rest of the game freeze? You have to program that in. Is it a parallel process? You have to program that in. What happens if the player ends their turn before the animation completes? You have to program that in. Also, how many frames will each animation have? Is it affected by clicking, drag-and-dropping, moving the cursor to the left or right, etc? Will the animations play when the opponent picks a card? How will it show the player that it's the computer who picked this card and not the player?

This is why i left animations for last. Because they're an entire chapter on their own.

HOWEVER, if you have a game with, say, 10 cards, with its mechanics, with an AI that plays a bit decently, and it requires at least a bit of strategy to win (we're in alpha stage now, it doesn't need to be chess) you could, in theory, look at animations - but i would personally leave them for last.

7. At this point, we have something that is closer to what you wanted. It's a playable game, the AI is easy but does utilize the mechanics of the game, and it doesn't mean you will win by simply playing every single card. Is it a fun game? Well, probably not at this point, since it's quite easy. Well, now is the point to make it more fun. How you will do that is up to you, but i would think of adding multiple versions of cards, or making the AI able to outsmart you, stuff like that. However, no matter how you proceed forwards, now is certainly the time to start building the different decks you talked about. This will take a long time to program, but it will take significantly less time if you have followed all the steps up to here. (since we're done with the most basic stuff).

8. After you finish at least 2 decks (for the player and computer) it does start resembling a more "proper" game now. So now make a choices menu (like cheating), to select your deck, and the opponent's deck and play it out to see how it goes. Again, you will run into the AI doing stupid things with its deck, and this is a matter of fine-tuning it. But all these things will need to be addressed before you move to building a map.

By building a map, i mean adding specific opponents in there. For example, 1 opponent has deck#3, while opponent 2 has a random deck between decks #1 and #2, etc.

Anyway. I'll end my post here. I will end it with this: You have to decide which aspect of the game you (and i mean you, the developer) will focus on. If you want to hone your programming skills, i would suggest focusing on the AI and commissioning an artist for visuals. However, you will still be the one programming how those visuals will be implemented in, so you have to think in terms of dimensions, stretching images, etc. so that the engine knows what to do with the picture. This could even mean changing how the engine behaves, but i've found this to be more advanced than it sounds.

So yeah, i hope i helped! :)
 

Annwfn

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Thanks, am starting to realise the complexity of all this. However, the AI will be the greatest challenge for one of the decks whose play-style is "If played correctly, it cannot lose." Full of synergies. Cards that call one-another. Effects I have them all, or mostly, I can come up with them on the spur of the moment, imagination is a strong point, also multi-threaded XD I also played many TCGs, including Yu-Gi-Oh! a lot, throughout its ages, Duel Masters, Hearthstone, Shadowverse, etc. The imagination part won't be a thing. Pictures... I don't care about them for now, since I will use place-holders. The phases of the game will be same, or similar to Yu-Gi-Oh! since I wouldn't mind its flavor. The different types of summoning and the super-complex effects would be a point. Secondary decks maybe. Coding will be the only thing here I'd say. Looking at the wiki of syntaxes for events is confusing since I use them but I keep getting returned all sorts of errors when I try to use scripts in-game.

Like the one for showing an image tells me of "origin". How do I write the syntax for that? o_O
Changing variables... sometimes works, sometimes not. I wish there was a site with broader explanations for each of the syntaxes. Like when I use $gameVariables.value() I get returned undefined. Need to get better at this, and will do so in time.
 

MiD

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Thanks, am starting to realise the complexity of all this. However, the AI will be the greatest challenge for one of the decks whose play-style is "If played correctly, it cannot lose." Full of synergies. Cards that call one-another. Effects I have them all, or mostly, I can come up with them on the spur of the moment, imagination is a strong point, also multi-threaded XD I also played many TCGs, including Yu-Gi-Oh! a lot, throughout its ages, Duel Masters, Hearthstone, Shadowverse, etc. The imagination part won't be a thing. Pictures... I don't care about them for now, since I will use place-holders. The phases of the game will be same, or similar to Yu-Gi-Oh! since I wouldn't mind its flavor. The different types of summoning and the super-complex effects would be a point. Secondary decks maybe. Coding will be the only thing here I'd say. Looking at the wiki of syntaxes for events is confusing since I use them but I keep getting returned all sorts of errors when I try to use scripts in-game.

Like the one for showing an image tells me of "origin". How do I write the syntax for that? o_O
Changing variables... sometimes works, sometimes not. I wish there was a site with broader explanations for each of the syntaxes. Like when I use $gameVariables.value() I get returned undefined. Need to get better at this, and will do so in time.
I haven't played that many card games but i understand how they work. Out of the ones you mentioned, i only know hearthstone, and i didn't even play it that long. Hearthstone, however, is quite complicated compared to, say, Gwent from Witcher 3. Personally, i would suggest making something like Gwent first (since it's simpler than the rest) and, if you get the hang of that, you can move on to more complicated things.

Anyway, from what i've seen all card games have two things in common, a very simple goal (get opponent's HP to 0, don't let yours go to 0 or something similarly simple) and a very strict set of rules (for example, you can only play damage cards in phase 1 or something like that). This is why i suggested the rules have to be set in stone first.

I completely understand the imagination part. And i wish you manage to create what you set out for. From my experience, during implementing what you have imagined, you might have to bend it to something simpler, for the sake of the game being more fun (but most importantly without bugs) or even for it to be possible at all (programming skills are an issue).

Concerning the syntax, are you making a plugin or are you using script calls? Making a plugin can be quite challenging if you don't know what you're doing : For example i only recently found out that you can't set values to variables before the player either starts or loads a game - you will get an error (and it makes sense if you think about it). However, there are always ways around stuff - for example i solved mine by making the variables global and setting their values from inside a script call. Anyway. I'm asking because that's what might be returning an error.

If you want to debug , you can use two tools with MV.
1. By pressing F12 you will bring up the developer tools, just like in any browser, and you can read your errors or console logs there. Console logs are a huge help for me (syntax is console.log(what) where 'what' is whatever you want to check).
2. By pressing F9 you will bring up a screen with all switches and variables your database has. So you can see what your variable is doing there (and you can even change it in game). Not very useful when you are working with string, objects or arrays though, since you can only change their numerical value (that's what they were meant for).

However, if you're trying to set a value or get a value from a variable from inside the game, the script calls are these:

$gameVariables.setValue(id, value) // sets 'value' to variable 'id'
$gameVariables.value(id) // returns the value of variable 'id'

I've never encountered a problem where something sometimes works and sometimes doesn't at random - something is always affecting its behavior and it's always something i missed when programming it. Or it could be a combination of things (for example, the usage of different plugins and/or their positioning in the list).

As for the site of the syntaxes, you must mean the script call list. It can be found here:

I always have that document open when programming. It's a huge help.

PS. Yes, the "full of synergies" AI will probably be challenging to create. AIs are difficult in general. But, thinking about it, you could make each card have a value, only for AI to see, and make the AI always play the highest valued card. Then different situations could lower or raise the value of a card (for example a card that calls other cards is useless if there are no other cards to call, so its value would be 0, while if there is only one other card, its value would be 1, etc. If the player has 5hp left, and the AI has a 5 damage spell, then its value should be max - stuff like that) This could make it appear smart, although it's not really thinking anything - you've done the thinking part for it, it just checks the highest value and plays it.

PS2: From what i know, to show an image the image has to be located in img/pictures and it must be a .png image. Origin is probably how the picture is centered - if i remember correctly 0 is 'center' and 1 is 'top-left'? Try the "show image" command in the pseudo-code, the syntax uses whatever you see in there.
 
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Annwfn

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Hello, and thank you again ^^ Hugs >:D< Thank you for the kind help! Thank you for the info, I knew about F9 and F12, I keep using them to see if certain event parts work!

I have the link towards that Script Call site, I also keep it up ^^ but some descriptions would need some extra explanations, at least for beginners. Like what some parameters exactly are (for disambiguisation): for example "origin" made me think of "file origin", like in HTML.

I know where the pictures have to be located, I work with several softwares to make busts or character faces, so I can put them in.

I know the rules of card games, and am not that interested in those. In game dev, the only thing pulling you down is the coding part. At least on my side. Am interested in gaining a firm grasp of everthing usable from RPG Maker, codewise, then getting to know how it's all set up. Looking through other people's plugins they look so simple, at times, on paper. Though some functions and code rape my mind for now XD Keep up the good work!
 

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Should be pretty easy with PIXI just letting me write all over the screen. :LZSexcite:
I'm starting to think I just dont like anime since the last one I enjoyed was none of them.
Hi guys, Im new here. Im using RPGMMV. In this community i would like to learn more and become better rpg developer.

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