So GameMaker Studio 2 is getting native support for Nintendo Switch. When's RMMV gonna do the same?

Discussion in 'Product Discussion and Support' started by ForestLogic, Mar 10, 2018.

  1. The Stranger

    The Stranger The Faceless Friend Veteran

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    It's only cheaper if you want to publish to Windows, though. The moment you want to publish outside of Windows you have to factor in the additional costs of each license you need, unless you're willing to pay $1500 every year to publish on everything.

    Currently, MV allows you to export your games to web browser, Windows, as well as phones and tablets. GM2 requires a license for each of these things: $99 for Windows, $149 for web, and $399 for phones\tablets.

    I understand that $647 is cheap for a studio with some sort of funding, but many RPG Maker users have no financial backing outside of their own pockets.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2018
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  2. thephoenix112

    thephoenix112 Veteran Veteran

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    Here's where I disagree entirely. Steam is not growing in sales. In fact, it's declined massively, and it can't keep up to consoles.

    "Blossom sells 20x more copies on Switch than on Steam"

    https://overclock3d.net/news/software/blossom_tales_sold_20x_more_copies_on_switch_than_steam/1

    "SteamWorld Dig 2 sold 10x more on Switch than Steam in it's first 4 months"

    https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/kzgq7y/steamworld-dig-2-sales-switch

    "Death Squared sells more on Switch than every other platform combined during initial launch"

    https://www.vg247.com/2017/09/15/se...ing-much-better-on-switch-than-anywhere-else/

    "Wonderboy, Forma.8, and Oceanhorn sells more copies on Switch than any other platform (Oceanhorn sold more than all other systems, including PC, combined)"

    https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...tch-versions-of-indie-games-outselling-others

    "Steam Direct sees indie game revenue drop as high as 39% for first month sales, up to 50% overall"

    https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...rect-fails-to-prevent-revenue-drop-for-indies

    "GDC Discussion (from just a few days ago) on Steam and it's oversaturation issues causing severe lack of sales"

    https://www.pcgamer.com/gdcs-realistic-talk-about-game-sales-on-steam-paints-a-grim-picture/

    "Steam had more than 6000 games released from Jan to Nov 2017, almost as much as every game released between 2005 and 2015

    https://www.pcgamer.com/more-than-6...-year-almost-as-many-in-the-10-years-to-2015/

    "Steam ends up releasing 7600 games in all of 2017, more than 21 games a day on average, "

    https://www.polygon.com/2018/1/10/16873446/steam-release-dates-2017

    "Steam Isn't Fine (reiterates a lot of the above points) - Jim Sterling on the issue with Steam's treatment of indie games"



    Having the ability to explore other markets is not only now becoming a better way to increase profits, it's almost becoming the only way to guarantee profits. RMMV offered the most ability for people to use the engine for truly commercial games, but with Steam's massive decline over the past 2 years, there shouldn't be any negative to the idea of offering cross platform support to the people willing and interested in paying it. Tell me right now I could pay the people behind RPG Maker MV $2000 and I'd get PS4 and Switch support, and I'd ask where to paypal the money. In a heartbeat.


    The only additional things currently offered by MV are mobile support (good luck in that market) or Mac support, which shows no signs of having great effect on sales in general. Having the extra market is great but it's far from a viable market in the first place. Again though, 1500 to license is not that hefty of a cost in the long run, and it's only needed for the publishing. If you don't plan to consistently use it, it doesn't appear to be needed to sell it. Use it for a year to keep it patched, and then move on from there. If you're selling it on Switch, PS4, XBox One, and Steam, I guarantee you're already setting up a profit margin that will make $1500 be an extremely easy expense.
     
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  3. LTN Games

    LTN Games Veteran Veteran

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    Html5 is supported on most consoles, which means MV is supported on them. Nintendo switch being the only one I know of that currently has no support. Creating a port for Nintendo switch, the only console that dont support It, seems like a waste of time and money. Not because it's not worth it but because something tells me if you can patiently wait a few months, Nintendo switch will have an SDK for HTML5.
    I understand your problems with steam but as a game developer it's your responsibility to have a look at what you expect from the game engine you purchased. By how compassionate you are with Nintendo Switch port, something tells me you picked the wrong engine at this time.
    I'm not sure how far into development you are but if it's only early, maybe switch engines or do some more research on the current petitions for Nintendo Switch HTML5 support. It may be just around the corner and worth waiting for, who knows but either way, even if MV devs come up with a way to port games, you will have to wait for them to develop it, which may take just as long or longer than Nintendo native support.
     
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  4. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    @thephoenix112 : Those stats are mainly true though because there are few games on the switch. I bet if the floodgates opened up there like on Steam it would stop being worth it. That's why I said earlier better have your game ready to get to switch NOW if you want it on there that bad, because by the time someone develops a game from start to finish that gold rush is going to be long gone (more than likely).
     
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  5. ashikai

    ashikai Veteran Veteran

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    @bgillisp I dunno, it's possible that since the switch is a totally portable self-contained ecosystem, it might not experience the same issues as Steam even if they had the same number of games.
     
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  6. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    @ashikai : Doubt it. I bet once the average switch owners has 500+ games in their backlog they will stop buying and the 7000+ games released every year will experience the same problem.

    In fact, I wonder if that is some of the problem on Steam? I know I hardly buy Steam games anymore, just because I look at my 300+ games in my backlog and then ask myself "Do I really need another game?", and usually unless it is like 90% off I just say no and put it on my wishlist and move on. I wonder how many others are doing the same now?
     
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  7. thephoenix112

    thephoenix112 Veteran Veteran

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    Except at this time, RPG Maker currently offers no console support at all. There is no viable way to publish an RPG Maker game on any platform outside of mobile and PC. So even if they support HTML5, the lack of licensing and direct support to port the games to that is still the major bottleneck here. It would be one thing if it was just a lack of Switch support, but if HTML5 based games ARE supported on other consoles, then why not offer that ability? Even if Switch DOES have an SDK with HTML5, we have no guarantee that RPG Maker games will be able to be ported, and I'd thank you to not assume my level of "patience".

    As a game developer it is also my responsibility to consider drastic shifts in markets and reconsider the platform I release on. When I first started, Steam Direct wasn't a thing. Neither was the Switch. However, the PC market was, at that point, booming. It's since shifted and we've seen a rise in indie games on consoles. GMS realized that and added the necessary support. All people are asking is for the same? The excuses of "raising base costs" and "no one wants to pay that" are unfounded, as proven by pretty much every other engine on the market. It has nothing to do with my "compassion" towards the Switch. If I really thought PC would be an issue 2 years ago, I never would have switched from Unity to RMMV, but it is, and as you put it, it's our responsibility to figure out how to correct for that. Again, I'd thank you to not also assume my "motives" for asking for console support. It's not about wanting it on the Switch, it's about releasing on the best possible platforms currently available.

    I'm 3 years and $14k deep, and fully aware that number will keep going up. I've done enough research to realize even if Nintendo Switch gets HTML5 support, we still don't even have licensing rights to publish on PS4 and XBox One with RMMV, two systems that DO have the ability to support HTML5. That's a big reason people are asking for it, because if you plan to release a game commercially, it seems more and more apparent that consoles are the bigger and better market as of this last year, and only going up and up while PC sales decline heavily (as shown by the information above). So I reiterate again...

    Tell me right now I could pay the people behind RPG Maker MV $2000 and I'd get PS4 and Switch support, and I'd ask where to paypal the money. In a heartbeat. Hell, tell me I can pay $1000 ($200 more than GMS, on a platform that apparently already supports the engine's base) just to get release support on PS4 and I'll pay it right now.
     
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  8. ashikai

    ashikai Veteran Veteran

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    @bgillisp Good point. But how much of that backlog is created because the games were too cheap NOT to buy? When a $20 game goes on sale for like, $2.99, if you were even remotely interested in it before you'd probably consider buying it because why not?
    I just think Nintendo would handle the whole system differently; maybe with a curation/approval program that steam will never implement *salty*.
     
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  9. thephoenix112

    thephoenix112 Veteran Veteran

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    They had a curation system. Then people abused it. So they just said "screw it, $100 and you're in" thinking that would fix it and now we're in way worse than before, with no signs of change. Nintendo is being very particular, but not exactly "exclusive", just make a solid game and you'll be fine. Imagine if the Nintendo eShop had an expected 12000 games released in a single year like Steam does for this year...would you even want to OPEN the shop at that point?
     
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  10. ashikai

    ashikai Veteran Veteran

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    Not sure if you're referring to Greenlight when you talk about the curation system, but that wasn't exactly what I had in mind. In any case I'm not sure this part of the discussion is all that relevant to the original topic. The business of monetizing and distributing Indie games apart from or alongside AAA games is a veeeeeeerrrrrry deep topic that deserves its own thread, IMO. (though if 12,000 games wanted to release on my platform, I would actually want to open shop provided I had a proper system in place; steam's system is lacking)

    Like I said before, Nintendo does have an HTML5 framework built into the switch, it's just not easily accessible through the main system because they haven't made the conscious decision to publicly support HTML5 games on their platform. It's likely that that, in part, is due to the sudden influx of "shovelware" they would probably get since HTML5 has a lower barrier to entry(kinda?) than other languages and they'll have to figure out proper submission guidelines. As of late 2016, they made a public statement saying they had no current plans to support HTML5 games on the switch. Dunno if that will change.

    I still hold firm that the primary issue surrounding the price point of RPG maker is irrelevant to whether or not there's console support. It's not like it has to come default with a basic license; it can be like a PRO upgrade, or a third party porting engine that can translate MV games into something readable. Licensing and whatever else could be tied into that version rather than the original. Plus I would also assume that RTP could be something that wouldn't be bundled into that license; you'd have to use custom assets at the very least. I think that in and of itself is a big deterrent to quick-buck games made in RPGM. (yes amazing games can be made with RTP, but I do think, given the nature of a commercial game on a console, that graphics and assets should always be a separately negotiated license.)
     
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  11. thephoenix112

    thephoenix112 Veteran Veteran

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    @ashikai : Absolutely, Greenlight...while not the BEST system...was way better than the wild west system now. At least there was some vetting. They got rid of greenlight and suddenly we had 4000 new games in 2016 (35% of the market share in 2016 was released in that one year), then 7600 in 2017, and are well on track to get 10-12k, maybe even more. I'd rather have Greenlight than anything, but Nintendo is definitely WAY more selective.

    Also, that 12000...a vast majority are dreadful. Just unplayable, broken, cheap, ugly, stolen, reskins, asset flips, etc. It's like trying to shop at a grocery store where most of the food is rotten. You just stop going there.

    You're right though, the Switch does have it built in to some extent, and the PS4/XBone have it natively. But right now there's no way to license to even do that, much less have actual app release support. If there's a market better than PC right now, it'd be stupid not to try and go for it.

    I agree wholeheartedly that console support wouldn't affect the base product, and a pro version or additional license would be an easy additional payment. Keep the RTP, just give me the amazing set of tools and the incredible community backing with the ability to push for consoles. Especially with the rise of companies like Limited Run. It opens the market, makes RMMV even more competitive, and can likely bring in even more revenue for the team behind the engine.
     
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