So many "just another RPG Maker" games out there... Something should be done!

Discussion in 'General Lounge' started by peq42_, Jan 3, 2018.

  1. peq42_

    peq42_ Yeet Veteran

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    Nowadays, every time i see a RPG Maker game it's either totally new, with every single aspect of the game being created by the maker, or...just another RPG Maker game(Games with default tilesets, or something really similar, without almost any work on it).

    The first group is totally fine(Most are really great games, wich have things i didn't know that RPG Maker could do). The second one... Is what make some people dislike rpg maker and RPG Maker games:Games by U$1 or so(or free) in Steam, that have nothing new, no custom windowskin, basic Message system, RTP graphics everywhere(Without a single recolor at least), etc.And i think that something should be done start changing it, before it affect other rpg maker games and the engine itself(The more "just another RPG Maker" games out there, the less chance of selling a RPG Maker game we will have, and the lower the price since those games are almost always 2 dollars or less. It make RPG Maker Games value lower in the eyes of customers)

    I mean, it's not that hard to don't "make just another RPG Maker Game". There are so many tutorials telling how to make good games, example:


    Maybe this forum could help encourage this. For example: No more 1 month long contest. It's too little time to make a really good game for most people. What about 1 year long contest with a better prize instead?
    What about being able to chose one between X "RTPs"(packs of resources) when you buy RPG Maker?Then if you need/want a RTP(wich could have it's name changed, so less people would download/search and use it) resource, you download it some time after.

    I don't know what could be done to help changing this situation, but i really think that something must be done.
     
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  2. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    I don't think there's anything that can be done. And honestly, it's not just RPGMaker that has this issue. Unity has this problem with all the unity asset flips. There's a ton of Gamemaker clones. And I'm pretty sure you could find a bunch of Renipy clones as well if you looked hard enough.

    So really it is a problem with any engine. There's honestly nothing that can be done to stop it, short of Steam changing their policies to maybe test each game before they let you sell it? Or maybe raise the Steam direct fee to a high enough value that people would not want to just post another clone for $1 anymore. But either way, it's nothing we can control.

    PS: While I do like the idea of a make a game in a year contest, the judging workload required to pull it off would be massive. Ever notice that every contest it takes longer to judge than the contest runs (2014 it took 3 months to judge, 2015 I think was almost 5 months, this year was between 1 - 2 months, but was still > 1 month)? So if we held a make a game in a year, the judges would get some epic long RPG's that would need more than an hour to judge. Judging time alone would probably be 2 - 3 years for that contest.
     
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  3. Astel

    Astel The (grey) knight with that funny look Veteran

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    There is nothing to change, nothing to fix...
    If I want to make a completely generic game, with RTP graphics or whatever, it's my right as I bought the software. I could have a problem with trying to sell the game, but otherwise there is nothing wrong with making the game that you want to make.
    Worry about your own game, make it as unique as you can or want, just let other people be :kaomad2:
     
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  4. Leon Kennedy

    Leon Kennedy Restaff Novice Restaff

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    I think the best solution is for steam/kadokawa to encourage users to join forums if they haven't already. People that just buy it from steam either don't know or are to lazy to look around and find the 1000xs or free/cheap or somewhat expensive tilesets for a custom looking game and plugins.
     
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  5. Starmage

    Starmage Veteran Veteran

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    As someone who plans on making a commercial RPG-maker game in the future, I really do need these types of lessons. Sadly, I can't do awesome graphical arts, sprites and original music on my own. x((( But yah, I do believe that if you have the creative drive to make your game something unique and different as long as it's made with your love and passion for RPG-making, then I think anyone is good to go in making a good RPG maker game. :)
     
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  6. Shaz

    Shaz Veteran Veteran

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    This.

    It would be hypocritical for Degica to try and stop people making/selling games made with RTP, when they advertise the engine as "easy enough for a child". They are encouraging people to make games to the best of their abilities, which for a lot of people, means very basic.

    It might be unfortunate that the games are not well tested or well designed and people try to sell them, but there's nothing Degica or any of us can do to stop them. It's their right.

    More than half the days I drive to/from work, I end up behind someone who drives slowly when I can't overtake, but who speeds up when I do get the opportunity. As much as I would like to, I can't take away their license or keys just because they annoy me and don't drive the way I think they should drive ;)
     
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  7. Leon Kennedy

    Leon Kennedy Restaff Novice Restaff

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    Disagree, it does somewhat effect the next game maker as well. Because someone buys some all rtp low effort crap for 5 bucks on steam, you post a modest 2 dollar game on there, they notice once again its a RMMV game they might take the bad taste in their mouth from the last and ignore your game.

    Luckily we do have many games that are at least decent, but the terrible ones do effect peoples opinions of RMMV whether we like it or not, or choose to ignore it like you. Many comments on steam and youtube, people say they just straight up will not buy a game made with rpg maker regardless of how good it is and sadly that number is increasing I'm afraid.
     
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  8. Requiem

    Requiem Veteran Veteran

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    RTP is certainly serviceable in most cases. I don't see why it gets so much hate as I don't think it's the RTP per say that makes it bad.

    It's pretty much only the story and characters that stays with me long after all is said and done.If I praise an RPG, it's usually that that I praise. If I crucify an RPG, it's usually also due to this.

    if you have no cake (good writing), there's no point in icing. Both is always better, but
    good writing can save a game with bad art (and I don't think RTP art is bad). Good art cannot save a bad game or shoddy writing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
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  9. Astel

    Astel The (grey) knight with that funny look Veteran

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    Steam is full of bad games and very few are made with RPG Maker, there are tons of poorly made games with unity and other free engines, it's the price to make something that everyone can pick up and use, you will get a ton of mediocre products, you can't avoid that.
    That said, if you are really serious about making games, RM engines are just a stepping stone.
     
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  10. Rukiri

    Rukiri I like to make Action-RPGs Veteran

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    I really don't want to be that guy, but a lot of the bad games simply use the RTP the graphics that come with RPG Maker but I think RM needs to honestly just be a program and the user brings in his own assets, if you want to propose limits on tilesets and tilesizes that's fun have a template of some sorts and an a document showing how to build and create for the engine. RPG Maker has become the wii for game development... which is sad as I've followed RM since forever even though I do NOT use it for every project. I won't get into what types of games should and shouldn't be done with RM that's not up to me because the battle system obviously will differ from each game and also the limits of RM itself.

    I'd love to see RM evolve into a more serious engine, but I'd love for the staple of event scripting to say but evolved into something like blueprints or godots visual scripting (which honestly would be awesome for RM and honestly I have more visual scripting than C# code these days because of how effective it is).

    Think of RM as MSPaint but once you want to move on to say something like Photoshop (or something similar) you can, bad analogy but it get's the point across.
     
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  11. kaukusaki

    kaukusaki Awesome Programmer Extraordinaire Veteran

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    If you have the skills, you can make RPG Maker jump through hoops even without a lick of programming. It's possible if you take the time and effort.

    And as for MS paint, I knew someone who been using it since Windows 3.1 and can make it jump through hoops. It's possible to make incredible pieces of art with it.

    Here's some spiffy MS Paint art.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/0/best-art-made-using-microsoft-paint/
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
    #11
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  12. Parallax Panda

    Parallax Panda Got into VxAce ~2014 and never stopped... Veteran

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    But... RTP is what makes RPG maker great! The product would lose a lot of it's value and interest to many people if it was just another engine. As it is, it caters to a specific market of entry level indie devs, no matter if they're 12 years old or 21 years old. It's for people who either can't or simply don't want to spend months creating their own assets.

    And I think it's great!

    I'm not passionate enough about game making that I'd ever "graduate" to Unity or even Game Maker. To much of a hassle, and I have to little time. In RPG maker however, I feel like I can make a decent game - even a commercial one. This using only what comes with the engine, a few DLC's and great plugins such as those from Yanfly. Isn't that great?

    If it weren't for RPG maker, I wouldn't be making games. I MIGHT be making Visual Novels... but not "gamey-games". Never.
     
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  13. BigEd781

    BigEd781 undefined method 'stupid_title' found for nil:NilC Veteran

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    Caveat emptor

    RPG maker is a hobbiest engine, and a beginner's hobbiest engine at that. It is meant to be accessible. If you make a great game people will buy it, I don't buy into your "people will avoid RPG Maker games" generalization. If you're concerned with making money from your games then perhaps you should learn to use a professional, or at least mid-range engine. RM is for beginners and there's nothing wrong with beginner's getting their games out there.

    Honestly, an elitist attitude come from someone who uses RPG Maker is ironically hilarious.
     
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  14. Touchfuzzy

    Touchfuzzy Rantagonist Staff Member Lead Eagle

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    While honestly, I wish people would stop trying to sell RTP games ( just like I'd like people to stop trying to sell Unity Asset games), I don't really care that much. I'd say that the biggest problem is that Steam really should be better about curating, but, you know, the field is what it is.

    I think the problem comes though, when people start equating a free game made as a hobby to paid games and starts holding those to the same standards. Like, the idea that we should completely get rid of the RTP so that the engine can be "taken seriously". RPG Maker, is at heart, a hobbyist engine. Yes, there are people that make commercial games with it, and there are some that are phenomenally well made.

    But we as a company would NEVER abandon the people who just want to have a fun hobby for commercial devs. I got into RPG Maker cause I loved it as a hobby. I want people to have fun making games. Maybe not the best games. Maybe not the most groundbreaking games. But I want people to be proud of the fact that they created a game, the game they wanted to make.

    I think sometimes the people who want to use RPG Maker as a commercial engine lose sight of this. Lose sight of the fact that to 95%+ of the users, this isn't about some kind of serious business, it is just for fun.

    Also, seriously, if you haven't seen some of the games that came out of the IGMC... You'd be amazed at what someone can do in a month. The original OneShot build was an IGMC game.
     
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  15. Alexander Hawksmoor

    Alexander Hawksmoor Veteran Veteran

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    You can make an amazing game with rtp stock just as much as you can make a crap one with entirely unique assets. Yes I think it can be overused, yes I think that hiring artists to add a bit of zing to a game isnt that costly, however what people often forget is that most probably dont use this engine to make a serious game. I would imaging alot of people who have this engine have full time jobs, families to take care of, some will probably be young kids themselves who bought the engine cause making games sounds cool, not realising that its alot harder than it looks and will maybe make a few hardly impressive games before they learn how to make a half decent game. Its not just a hobby tool, people forget its also a learning tool.
     
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  16. Leon Kennedy

    Leon Kennedy Restaff Novice Restaff

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    Right that's my opinion too, I don't have a "elitist", attitude towards the engine its just there is so much more that can be done with it. If people release cruddy games for free I don't mind. Commercial I don't really mind either don't lose sleep over it but I do feel bad for people that buy rtp low effort games and I was just saying I wouldn't blame those people for looking over another rpg maker game. Anyways I have the same attitude steam should really redirect people to these forums or the other one for help with their games.

    @BigEd781 If you really want to go there just YT search people putting down the engine due to low effort games. It does happen but not much can be done about it other than trying to make a good game yourself you can't change what other people do. Especially for like you say a easily accessible engine that there is probably 5-6 year olds out there making games or just complete beginners you can't put them down for what they don't know.
     
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  17. BigEd781

    BigEd781 undefined method 'stupid_title' found for nil:NilC Veteran

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    Low effort is not synonymous with "uses RTP". You can make an extremely well polished game while using the RTP, and you can also make a garbage game using custom resources. I'm not sure what your point is here, or why I should care about some random youtubers.
     
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  18. TheoAllen

    TheoAllen Self-proclaimed jack of all trades Veteran

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    You're a hobbyists, you don't. You go commercial, you probably do. Sure there're some people who just look down at everything and call it a low effort just because it uses RTP. And people who amazed at custom graphics saying "wow this is the kind of game I want to play" without knowing it probably a garbage. Sure, "don't judge book by its cover" is pretty much true, but majority of people do it anyway

    That said, I'm a hobbiyists so I don't care to people who look down the engine. I have my players, I have my own fan base, I have people who look forward to my game, and I continue to feed em up.
     
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  19. Leon Kennedy

    Leon Kennedy Restaff Novice Restaff

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    In the post you quoted I never said anything about rtp equaling bad games. I specifically said low effort. Though games with strictly only rtp are looked down upon by some people on forums, but not impossible to make a great game with a good amount of effort. Yes custom resources can be used in bad games, pretty general knowledge there.

    Overall like I've said repetitively steam buyers of any rpgm engine should get some info about the forums, not only for custom resources but for some schooling @Touchfuzzy , tuts, feedback, resources. All that good stuff that will yield at least a better game in the end. Bad games will be released, nothing can be done about it. Some people will turn their nose up at the next game with the same engine, some won't.

    I get that you feel people just shouldn't care, its a hobby. I get your point of view. Just in my opinion people should be encouraged to get some help on their games. I don't know if that's criminal to think or not.
     
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  20. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    The secret is to always find your audience and cater to them. Those that want good RPG's will not care about your graphics, and those who want shiny graphics for everything are probably not going to touch an RPGMaker game unless you can give them 4k 2560 x 1920 resolution anyways (good luck doing that in any RPGMaker engine right now). So I say focus on making your game something the non-graphic loving crowd will like, and go from there.

    Also, about youtubers: Remember that on average only 10% of any group ever comments on anything, and it is usually the most vocal 10%. Odds are high the remaining 90% could care less what they think about RTP on there or on Steam.

    @Leon Kennedy : We've tried. Not much luck so far. Those who want to churn out trash games on steam are going to churn them out and use them to farm trading cards or achievements, and there is nothing we can do about it. That's why I said at the very beginning that unless Steam changes how they do things, like either raise the cost to post the game on there enough to deter such actions, or actually play every game then decide whether to allow it, there is little we can do realistically.
     
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