Sociopaths and self destructive characters

[DarknessFalls]

I originally asked this or part of this as a status update but now I thought I would ask here, more detailed answers are always fun

So you're making a game, how do you do make a sociopathic character or a self destructive character (or both) ??

How do you make them realistic??

Tv does a good job of this, but what about games? How do we make these types of characters in a game? Any examples of games with these types of characters?

 

[Azaarious]

I think that the best sociopath in a game is Kefka Palazzo. He is by far my favorite villain of any game I have ever played. What are you looking to do though? Is this sociopath your main character, or someone in the party? Or perhaps a villain or side character?

 

[DarknessFalls]

I don't want to give away too many details of my game, I just wanted to know what tips you guys had for creating sociopathic characters and or self destructive characters

My goal is to have one in my game, one who is vindictive. But I don't know if I want them in the party or not ... I want them to feel natural like a real sociopathic person

 

[Valkyriet]

Should start off by saying that although sociopathic and self-destructive aren't mutually exclusive personality traits, they're not one and the same. Extreme sociopathic behavior is self-destructive but there are some who are just "hot-headed" anti-socials. Similarly, having a self-destructive behavior can mean either suicidal or extremely sociopathic or a variety of other things. My best suggestion would be to get yourself a well referenced book on psychology, and study the primary traits visible in sociopaths. You should realize though, that traits like these are not to be taken lightly and seem to belong more if you're making a horror game. The words "mild sociopath" make no sense, so tread carefully.

 

[Heartbreak61]

Maybe by asking real people who has psychological problem?

 

[AwesomeCool]

Agree with Valkyried.  Get a book from an expert and read/study it (the more sources the better).  You will also probably learn a lot of cool things too (and maybe even get more ideas for your game).

I am still amazed at the "realistic" portrayals of schizophrenics in games, TV, and Movies (they even claim that it is realistic most of the time).

When I tell someone that I am schizophrenic, they literally become confused and generally say I am lying (for the movies portray them so differently).  Going on to say that I am way to normal for me to have the disease. :/

Lie detectors are the funniest though.  They are super unreliable (you can learn how to cheat the system from college classes that teach it) and are not even allowed to be used as evidence in court.  The general person will take the test as truth way too often though.

 

[162]

Perhaps one thing to remember is that your audience might are be sociopaths/self-destructive themselves. Keeping this in mind, you can make this character do things that would go against a player's would-be actions, thus conveying the depth of these psychological aspects.

But much agreed with those above me- research like a boss.

 

[DarknessFalls]

Should start off by saying that although sociopathic and self-destructive aren't mutually exclusive personality traits, they're not one and the same. Extreme sociopathic behavior is self-destructive but there are some who are just "hot-headed" anti-socials. Similarly, having a self-destructive behavior can mean either suicidal or extremely sociopathic or a variety of other things. My best suggestion would be to get yourself a well referenced book on psychology, and study the primary traits visible in sociopaths. You should realize though, that traits like these are not to be taken lightly and seem to belong more if you're making a horror game. The words "mild sociopath" make no sense, so tread carefully.

I don't think I used mild sociopath.  this is not a character trait that I thought would "be cool and so ill just throw it in" I have a space for it but im not sure if the character should be a playable party member, an AI controller party member or not. 

Are there any examples of these types of arcs where they are in a party? Can you be a sociopath and a self destructive person? You mention that they are not mutually exclusive personality traits Does that mean that they can be used together?

Maybe by asking real people who has psychological problem?

uh .... 

Agree with Valkyried.  Get a book from an expert and read/study it (the more sources the better).  You will also probably learn a lot of cool things too (and maybe even get more ideas for your game).

I am still amazed at the "realistic" portrayals of schizophrenics in games, TV, and Movies (they even claim that it is realistic most of the time).

When I tell someone that I am schizophrenic, they literally become confused and generally say I am lying (for the movies portray them so differently).  Going on to say that I am way to normal for me to have the disease. :/

Lie detectors are the funniest though.  They are super unreliable (you can learn how to cheat the system from college classes that teach it) and are not even allowed to be used as evidence in court.  The general person will take the test as truth way too often though.

I lived with a schizophrenic for a few years, there are varying degrees of the disorder, TV mostly paints them as alien haters who use tin foil, not always the case.

Perhaps one thing to remember is that your audience might are be sociopaths/self-destructive themselves. Keeping this in mind, you can make this character do things that would go against a player's would-be actions, thus conveying the depth of these psychological aspects.

Could you elaborate on this a bit more?

Great convo guys great help, my question is - What would you do or expect if you ran into a character like this in a game?

 

[162]

Answer to question: depends on what role they play (ally, enemy) and how they're presented (charming, strait-up creepy, so on).

As for elaborating on my previous point: well, let's say for example that your sociopath character had a slushie thrown on his face by some random guy. Let's say that random guy suddenly has his house burn down, has his dog run over, and has his wife leave him, taking the kids. A person would normally be sympathetic, despite having said slushie thrown into their face. Your sociopath, however, might knowingly cause him more pain, thus showing the player how different they are. Basically, you have to use nuances in your story to illustrate your character's psychological make-up and show the difference between them and a normal person by using the player's own perception/personality with a given situation. Like how people think the Joker's all awesome then he does something horrible and they think "Oh, well, now I remember, he's a psycho."

Erm...hope I successfully elaborated.

One thing that you could keep in mind is that a sociopath might not see how, well, anti-social they are nor see anything wrong with it. Like with something you can do in lieu of talking to an actual sociopath; there's plenty of documentaries/biographies about sociopaths. (This documentary I saw about the Iceman and the auto-biography Confessions of a Sociopath being ones to come to mind.) You can actually find the HBO Iceman doc on youtube. It's a pretty good one. (Seriously, if you can find this one part where the guy talks about killing someone, then says that the only thing that really bothered him was putting a wagon together for his kids, that might be illuminating enough.)

But again, it might not be the sort've sociopath you're looking for.

 

[DarknessFalls]

That actually sounds like the kind, minus the murdering, that I would want. Some one who just doesnt care about you, a self centered, egotistical emotionless creature who is charming and fake.

 

[Kes]

My understanding is that you are unlikely to get a sociopath who is charming. To be charming requires a set of social skills which is unlikely to be present.

 

[DarknessFalls]

In a sociopath? With enough research it seems easy to implement?

Not sure what your saying

 

[Kes]

For example, few people will find someone who is emotionless also charming. There are people who can be highly manipulative who are charming (it is one of the weapons in their armoury) but they are not automatically sociopaths, at least in a clinical sense. Part of the problem with issues such as this is that there is a tendency to use the label to cover a wide range of undesirable behaviour, rather than using it in a strict sense. To take an analogy from daily life. People often say they have had flu when in fact they have simply had a very bad cold. A cold and flu are not the same thing. In the same way, psychological terms are used inaccurately to describe something else. This is why I support the suggestion that you do serious research before developing your character.

 

[DarknessFalls]

Hmm this might take a couple years of research, might go a different route unless i can get my hands on some good material.

 

[trouble time]

People in this thread seem to be confusing anti-social behaviors and psychopatic behaviors with sociopathic behaviors. Also I want to note having a mental disorder doesn't mean someone is psychopathic, now that that's out of the way here's a pretty nice article about the differences between a psychopath and a sociopath.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201401/how-tell-sociopath-psychopath

Edited for some clarity.

 

[DarknessFalls]

Ooooooo the article seems awesome

 

[Valkyriet]

I don't think I used mild sociopath.  this is not a character trait that I thought would "be cool and so ill just throw it in" I have a space for it but im not sure if the character should be a playable party member, an AI controller party member or not. 

Are there any examples of these types of arcs where they are in a party? Can you be a sociopath and a self destructive person? You mention that they are not mutually exclusive personality traits Does that mean that they can be used together?

I only used "mild sociopath" because I had a feeling that's what you were going for in your game - a charming, sort of antisocial and mysterious person. It's like ksjp said before, a cold and flu are totally different things, although people sometimes don't really pay attention to detail when describing it. You cannot do the same things with psychological disorders though, mainly because it's a sensitive issue. The most common example for this would be how lightly some people take depression. "Oh you're just depressed," she said, shrugging her shoulders. Severe depression doesn't last for one day or one week; it can last for months at a time and drastically change your life if you do not seek help. For any psychological disorders, there are varying stages or levels. It's the same for schizophrenia, because I have dealt with it in my family for four years and it was a nightmare because it got worse over time. I think you can already understand that you need a deep understanding of a real sociopath's psychology before delving into character creation; it serves to improve your credibility.

The reason some sociopaths can be regarded as self-destructive is because even though they may have committed a kind of socially-unacceptable act (i.e. say, stealing), they have a (very weak) conscience (unlike the ideal psychopath) and will likely feel a sense of guilt. They are also said to have a poor inner sense of right and wrong. You should keep in mind though that all people are not the same, however, and therefore it would be best if you didn't generalize it in your game. Remember that how your portray something is very important.

Here's a small excerpt that may help : "Doctors don’t officially diagnose people as psychopaths or sociopaths. They use a different term instead: antisocial personality disorder......In movies and TV shows, psychopaths and sociopaths are usually the villains who kill or torture innocent people. In real life, some people with antisocial personality disorder can be violent, but most are not. Instead they use manipulation and reckless behavior to get what they want."

 

[Matseb2611]

A character like that is very unlikely to want to be in a player party. If they do, however, it's most likely to further their own goals, and even then, they'd probably end up betraying the party on multiple occasions and leaving to pursue their own goals at critical moments. Or better yet, wait to backstab the party at the most crucial moment, which could make for a nice climax scene.

As NPCs, it might be easier to pull off a sociopath, since you have more freedom on what you can make them do. I've had a character like that in my recently released game (Jinn Yao from City of Chains). The entire time he simply was doing things for himself, to further his own goals, and have absolutely no regard for other people's safety and well-being. People were just tools to him. They were either to be used or discarded. In one of the climax scenes, he forces the player to play one of his sick games, the outcomes of which decide the fate of a couple of NPCs.

I like that article posted by Troubletime. It highlights the differences between a sociopath and a psychopath well, one being very impulsive and doing things seemingly at random, whilst the other being cold and calculating and planning everything with precision.

 

[InBlast]

I really love this type of character. However, i like them very intelligent and cold, like Hannibal Lecter. Creating them take me a looooot of time, because i think they need way more work to create their personnality than usual important NPC, because there is a need for complex reasons for their actions.

But i think it's worth, because there are usually very charismatic characters and people love them ^^

 

[Alexander Amnell]

My understanding is that you are unlikely to get a sociopath who is charming. To be charming requires a set of social skills which is unlikely to be present.

For example, few people will find someone who is emotionless also charming. 

   This is not necessarily true, sociopaths can come off as very charming, at least in the short term. The inability for empathy and a lack of emotional connection certainly makes it difficult for people having to deal with such disorders (unless they go criminal, which is about the only semi-agreed upon distinction that separates a sociopath and a psychopath. Medically speaking neither disorder is even recognized to this day, whatever the differences or perceived differences they're both diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder). 

   The thing about having an antisocial personality disorder though is that very few people in life are going to care. People with autism, bipolar disorder and others get movements and causes and drives started to help them fit into society because however different most people can still relate to them and their struggles, it's a lot harder to see the struggles of someone who is emotionally detached and lacking true human empathy and most people will instinctively go the route of demonizing the sociopath or psychopath as a self-centered, inconsiderate rear end in a top hat unworthy of consideration in turn because of the disorder's nature. Because of this, people dealing with antisocial personality disorders either learn to charm aka fake empathy and emotional connections and thrive in a world of misdirection or else they end up living on the streets somewhere because they can't hold down a job and drive everyone around them away.

   Another thing that is rarely considered are that there are actually a few positives that can manifest even from a disorder as extreme as this. Though media will generally show all sociopaths to be seedy guys living out of cars and running scams on people to get by and psychopaths as the 'perfect criminal', completely immune to remorse, doubts and regrets the truth is rarely so cut-and-dry. I knew a girl in high school who was considered a sociopath. While a lack of empathy was present and she was as manipulative as a person could be she would also be completely comfortable going out of her way to help people in situations where a normal person would look the other way and move on. She'd pick up hitchhikers or stop to jump off a complete stranger without hesitation (how I met her, actually) and when it suited her could be brutally and analytically honest. True she'd walk over any number of people to get what she wants if they got in her way, though this is true of more than just sociopaths and her goals were never really sinister, mostly they were merely academic and some even manifested in understanding social graces, not to somehow become sociable but so she could exist in a world that despises her very nature by instinct.

   Some people with antisocial personality disorders set their sites on unscrupulous goals and turn into monsters, most of them though do not and whether the disorder makes them more capable of the former path or not action is everything and from what I've seen people with that disorder are more likely to end up leading others as corporate climbers and politicians than they are to go on a crime spree (though sometimes the paths can be one and the same - incarceration), and they seem to thrive at it to boot. For better or worse, I'd say if you want a good example of those tendencies then look to political figures and rulers as your inspiration. Studies have shown that socio/psychopaths are attracted to power, and that political figures the globe over are as much as five times more likely to be found to have the disorder than a sample of the general population. In short spurts they can be charismatic, likable and devoted. It is usually only after continued exposure that you can begin to discern that those are merely a mask, a means to an end to accomplish a goal.

   the best example I can think of for a psychopathic villain in a game would be Luca Blight from suikoden 2, and then maybe Dycedarg from final fantasy tactics is a somewhat distant second.