Stagger

Geovid

Geodessia
Veteran
Joined
May 23, 2014
Messages
35
Reaction score
14
First Language
Eng
Primarily Uses
RMMV
So thinking about this thread I had an idea or two about uses for stagger..

As an aside to what TheoAllen was saying about a stagger bar, they have that in final fantasy worlds, where you stack teammates .. on your head... and being hit heightens your stagger bar, and when it's full everyone collapses and it requires an action to re-stack. If you don't use the highly specific stacking mechanic in your game stagger could do something else like drop your weapon and require a turn to pick it up.. (this would be different from stun because you could just use a spell or skill that doesn't require your weapon and you could pick up your weapon later. Very doable with a plugin.

another idea I got from this thread is a particularly hard enemy with a shell or something that can only be damaged when staggered. Like the stagger exposes the only weakness. That'd be a kinda cool use for it aside from the standard stagger effects you might also include.
 

Frostorm

[]D[][]V[][]D aka "Staf00"
Veteran
Joined
Feb 22, 2016
Messages
1,116
Reaction score
792
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
@TheoAllen Thank you for going elaborating on your battle system. That sounds much more well rounded now that you've explained it. Don't sweat it about the off topic-ness lol.

@Geovid What do you mean by "stack teammates .. on your head... "? Like, are the units standing on top of each other or something like in Disgaea?
 

Devildimos

I ruin memes for a living
Veteran
Joined
Jul 11, 2014
Messages
81
Reaction score
167
First Language
Eglish
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
I would make Stagger a more complex focus. Giving it a 2 phase state.
If a character has the "stagger" State and gets hit again while the stagger state is applied. The character will be stunned or fall prone whichever.
This way the character still has this chance to regain his balance and avoid reaching the next phase of the state.
This way the stagger state sounds more realistic to me.
 

Geovid

Geodessia
Veteran
Joined
May 23, 2014
Messages
35
Reaction score
14
First Language
Eng
Primarily Uses
RMMV
@Geovid What do you mean by "stack teammates .. on your head... "? Like, are the units standing on top of each other or something like in Disgaea?
Yes xd

it looks ridiculous but it equates to a very fun battle system
 

Attachments

Frostorm

[]D[][]V[][]D aka "Staf00"
Veteran
Joined
Feb 22, 2016
Messages
1,116
Reaction score
792
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
I would make Stagger a more complex focus. Giving it a 2 phase state.
If a character has the "stagger" State and gets hit again while the stagger state is applied. The character will be stunned or fall prone whichever.
This way the character still has this chance to regain his balance and avoid reaching the next phase of the state.
This way the stagger state sounds more realistic to me.
This is almost exactly what I had in mind. Either that or turn order delay. Hmm, which should I use...

it looks ridiculous but it equates to a very fun battle system
Lol, yea that looks bonkers.

Edit: I just noticed Yanfly made a video for WoW's Stagger, which is totally different than the examples we've discussed thus far. Here it is for those who're interested:

What do you guys think of this type of stagger?
 
Last edited:

Kes

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Aug 3, 2012
Messages
22,105
Reaction score
11,445
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
For Stagger I make it so that it seals physical skills for x turns - if you like it's the physical equivalent to Silence for magic users. Logic being that if you're staggering around you could do a few basic things (Attack, Defend, use item etc.) but no way would you be in a fit state to do anything skillful.
 

Icenick

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Mar 28, 2012
Messages
336
Reaction score
49
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
Well, I don't have a stagger implemented yet, but I want to create an effect that's consistent with the widespread definition/consensus of the word. That's why I wanted to see what other people have implemented.

I'm thinking of making it a stage 1 out of a 2 stage stun mechanic. Or simply guarantee stun chance. Though it seems like the general consensus for stagger is something armor related like in TheoAllen's case.

Maybe another way to phrase my original question would be: What does the word "Stagger" mean in your game?
*Im going to be talking a lot about effects more so than stagger but I swear it has a point lol*

I thought of stage 1 and then 2 but (again didnt test it but in theory) it would focus players do to the same combos over and you can have 20 skills and realistically players will cycle the same 3. It also depends on what kind of combat you want, is each battle 10 minutes long than maybe building up stagger is fine. If you want your heroes to feel powerful it doesnt make sense to have them fight forest wolves and almost die every corner.

I'll mention 2 games I think can work wonderfully for your elemental stagger;
1)I like the way monster hunter handles it and thats to build up a bar and once its full the status effect happens.
2)Another game I find does effects really well is Darkest Dungeon, where you have 90%-200% chance to inflict Stun or wtv effect, enemies have a resistance value and if they get stunned they gain +100% resistance to stun for the next 2 turns. So you can spec into Stun build and lets say your hero has a 150% chance to stun, against an enemy with 25% resistance to be stun, well you know it will always stun if you use it, but the next turn (150-125) you'll have only a 25% chance to stun if you want to try to stun lock them, do you risk it or do you alternate skills.
I find this mechanic beautiful, it gives players the choice and their decisions matter. Also a major reason this works is because all the information is given to you, there is no guess work. If I cast fire how likely will I burn them?

Back to stagger, if you want you can implement something like a bar to build a specific effect, if stagger is stun then great. But I also take it to mean increased damage or the enemy is at a disadvantage.
My game uses elements to bring forth a disadvantage to enemies in the form of casting different elemental attacks. I want a darkest dungeon or dark souls feels so all enemies will be powerful, it makes sense that battles dont end in 2 turns. So players will be cycling combos to weaken or stun enemies.

Finally you need to ask yourself how you see combat working, if you can 1-2 shot basic enemies it doesnt really make sense to do a huge stagger system, perhaps stagger can just be much simpler:

Deal 25% of targets max HP to instantly stagger, this will have a greater impact on weaker enemies and for stronger ones maybe you can increase the likelihood of stagger by using opposing elements, cast lightning and water or fire and ice, the enemy is now at an increased vulnerability lowering the dmg needed to 20% max HP, and so on until they are stagger then it can reset.

If your game focuses on stagger then you can do what you suggested earlier and build up stages to either deal bonus dmg or just stun them outright, however I feel this approach is much more complicated to implement and balance. Which is why im very curious to how your going to do it :)
 

Frostorm

[]D[][]V[][]D aka "Staf00"
Veteran
Joined
Feb 22, 2016
Messages
1,116
Reaction score
792
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
I ended up going with the 2 stage approach but not exactly as described earlier. I made it so any skills that "stagger" will delay the target's turn order and apply the "stagger" state. This state increases the chance for the "stun" state to be applied by 500%, basically guaranteed. I have more than 1 skill available to players that can apply the "stun" state, so they aren't limited to the same 2 skill combo. There is also more than 1 skill that applies "stagger". I mostly gave them to the Protection and Fisticuffs skill trees, though I may go back and make it so some other physical trees can utilize the mechanic as well. Implementation was easy and didn't even require coding, it was a simply making the "stagger" state have a trait that increased the state rate of "stun".

The enemies are also not pushovers and will take much more than 2 hits to kill, assuming similar level.

My game is full of combos of skills from differing schools. Like applying "damp" with water spells so lightning attacks are guaranteed to paralyze, or ice attacks are guaranteed to freeze. Another is applying "tar" with earth spells that guarantee fire attacks to burn. Similarly, I wanted something that would encourage the use of skills from different physical disciplines as well, and "stagger" was my answer to that.

I will probably also have some of the "physical" elements (earth, wind, water) able to take advantage of the mechanic as well. Well, at least earth for sure.

Edit: I shied away from a bar/gauge mechanic since I already have a temperature and conductivity mechanic, which sorta works in the same way but for magic. I've been getting conflicting feedback on whether to show a bar/gauge for those or not. Not sure if I'll keep it at all though...
 
Last edited:

Icenick

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Mar 28, 2012
Messages
336
Reaction score
49
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
I ended up going with the 2 stage approach but not exactly as described earlier. I made it so any skills that "stagger" will delay the target's turn order and apply the "stagger" state. This state increases the chance for the "stun" state to be applied by 500%, basically guaranteed. I have more than 1 skill available to players that can apply the "stun" state, so they aren't limited to the same 2 skill combo. There is also more than 1 skill that applies "stagger". I mostly gave them to the Protection and Fisticuffs skill trees, though I may go back and make it so some other physical trees can utilize the mechanic as well. Implementation was easy and didn't even require coding, it was a simply making the "stagger" state have a trait that increased the state rate of "stun".

The enemies are also not pushovers and will take much more than 2 hits to kill, assuming similar level.

My game is full of combos of skills from differing schools. Like applying "damp" with water spells so lightning attacks are guaranteed to paralyze, or ice attacks are guaranteed to freeze. Another is applying "tar" with earth spells that guarantee fire attacks to burn. Similarly, I wanted something that would encourage the use of skills from different physical disciplines as well, and "stagger" was my answer to that.

I will probably also have some of the "physical" elements (earth, wind, water) able to take advantage of the mechanic as well. Well, at least earth for sure.

Edit: I shied away from a bar/gauge mechanic since I already have a temperature and conductivity mechanic, which sorta works in the same way but for magic. I've been getting conflicting feedback on whether to show a bar/gauge for those or not. Not sure if I'll keep it at all though...
Sounds fun! Cant wait to see it in action.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Latest Threads

Latest Profile Posts

Got inspired and started writing a simple tower defence battle system last night :o
Good news! I have located an amazing 3D website called SketchFab that has rotatable renderings of famous statues!
Picked up a physical copy of Megadimension Neptunia VII for the PS4 today. It's pretty good. I'm having a lot of fun with it.
The only upside of this remote semester was the plenty of funny photoshop material those facecams provided. Not that I would do that. Ever.

Forum statistics

Threads
100,516
Messages
976,704
Members
132,080
Latest member
nwr
Top