Stamina for Accuracy

Discussion in 'Game Mechanics Design' started by Lnik3500, Sep 11, 2018.

  1. Lnik3500

    Lnik3500 Master Troll Veteran

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    Hello everyone!
    I was thinking about trying to figure out how a stamina-type system could be implemented in a game
    Lots of people here seem to dislike Accuracy. Most people here either use 100% always or try to do it in a different way.
    I think accuracy can be a nice thing if it can be made into something that the player can take advantage of. Stamina could be a direct way of telling the player the hit rate they have. More Stamina = More Hit Rate. Stamina would deplete from certain actions and would provide ways as well to exploit it on an enemy. Let's say that the big swing takes a big toll on stamina. the player would be aware of the consequences and how rng can turn out from their own decisions.
    What would you guys think of it? What would you think of doing or change for your own views of Accuracy?
     
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  2. Eschaton

    Eschaton Hack Fraud Veteran

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    To keep their accuracy up, the player will have to do something other than dealing damage to recover their stamina.

    What did you have in mind for the player to do while their stamina recovers or how to recover their stamina.

    Accuracy was actually a resource spent by special skills in the first Mass Effect, but it's not a feature that survived into the rest of the franchise.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2018
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  3. Aesica

    Aesica undefined Veteran

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    I used to play an old MMO with stamina. While it didn't affect accuracy, it affected health and mana regeneration rates so you always had to work to keep it as high as possible. Accuracy would arguably be even more demanding since you'd want it as close to 100% as possible at all times.

    In retrospect, would I consider it to be a good or fun mechanic? From a player perspective, not at all. The whole thing was really annoying and maintenancy because you were constantly chowing down on consumables to keep it up. At one point, they added some special gear tied to a gimmicky pvp system that restored some stamina for the wielder every time something in the area died. These were the best things ever added to the game because they effectively allowed players to hand-wave the annoying stamina system away.

    Edit: That said, "Accuracy" isn't bad by itself, although I keep mine at 100% by default. That's not to say enemies will always be hittable every time. I fully intend for some enemies to be dodgy to encourage the use of magical attacks against those particular foes. I also intend to have dodge-boosting buffs, especially if I can pull off Final Fantasy's "Blink" ability. (Dodge X number of attacks rather than dodge a fixed amount for X rounds)
     
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  4. Wavelength

    Wavelength The Indictables Veteran

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    At first blush it sounds like a fair and intuitive way to handle accuracy in a way that the player has more influence than the RNG. However, as Eschaton and Aesica both mentioned above, you have to consider what the player will be doing when they are trying to restore their stamina, and whether it will be any fun being forced to choose between backing off from your attacks every couple of hits, or risking RNG misses. Probably not that fun.
     
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  5. Lnik3500

    Lnik3500 Master Troll Veteran

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    I am thinking of making it something that lowers very slowly over the time of combat, which only a simply guard could make up for the loss of the past 5-10 turns.
    While it is something that would be a bit less fun, I think that if the player is able to manipulate it easily could be turned over and actually take advantage of it to make enemies more tired (they would also have stamina depletion)
    I try to encourage the player to attack still, but to not abuse high power skills over every turns. just taking a turn to buff could easily mitigate the depletion of stamina, which I think would be a system that punishes too aggressive playstyles maybe, but I think the main appeal is offering the player the choice to essentially improve team evasion by depleting the accuracy of the enemy as well
     
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  6. Gargoyle77

    Gargoyle77 Veteran Veteran

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    Morrowind has a similar system and let me tell you it's one of the most hated combat mechanics in rpgs. Obviously there are more factors influencing if a hit lands or not, but one of the main ones is stamina. The following game, Oblivion, changed it so stamina influences damage instead of accuracy. So if you have low stamina, you'll do little damage. The following game, Skyrim, drops both systems and instead makes power attacks (attacks stronger that normal attacks) and blocking (if I remember correctly) need stamina to be used.
     
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  7. Wavelength

    Wavelength The Indictables Veteran

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    Don't forget that (unless you're developing a PvP game) not every rule that applies to one side needs to apply to the other! It would be perfectly fine to design a system where only the enemies have "stamina" and can get tired, whereas you always hit at 100% accuracy.

    Eternal Senia actually does this (monsters have a chance you miss based on stats; you always hit) and I have to say it feels fantastic, as a player, to be able to get lucky but never feel like I'm getting unlucky or screwed.
     
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  8. Lnik3500

    Lnik3500 Master Troll Veteran

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    @Wavelength This is such a great idea!

    Using stamina that would decide the accuracy of an enemy only could be something that works at the favor of the player and not against, which is something pretty intuitive. If stamina was to be applied to the player, maybe it could simply be what determines another stat instead of accuracy? Maybe being a bonus instead of something that gets worse?
     
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  9. Wavelength

    Wavelength The Indictables Veteran

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    Sounds good! Maybe the characters spend stamina to use certain types of Special skills (so they have a use for stamina even though they are always hitting at 100%), whereas the enemies don't have those Special skills so they consume Stamina when attacking etc. and it determines their Hit chance.
     
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  10. Aesica

    Aesica undefined Veteran

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    Painting it as a bonus rather than a penalty can often be better received by players, however it's important that you, as the developer, know that there's no real difference between "It imposes a 50% penalty" and "it gives you a 50% bonus" because chances are, you're balancing around having that number as high as possible. Smarter players will also see through that.

    That said, "stamina" as way to limit the use of strong abilities shouldn't be necessary since you always have MP for that. In my current game, the goal is to have both MP-efficient skills that deal moderately decent damage and are largely sustainable throughout combat, and MP-hungry skills that hit hard, but will result in exhausting MP if used excessively. In this case, the characters "lose stamina, get tired, and are less effective" when their MP is lower due to being unable to use their best skills. No special stamina/stat penalty system required.
     
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  11. jonthefox

    jonthefox Veteran Veteran

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    I think an interesting idea would be to have it where actors and enemies have the ability to dodge as normal, but that whenever someone (an enemy or an actor) is at 100 stamina, your attacks will have the "certain hit" property - so in other words, you know that when at 100 stamina, you're guaranteed to hit. Actually, what might be even more interesting is that at 100 stamina, you're guaranteed to hit, AND you're guaranteed to dodge. The trick would be to balance things so that the player does not feel like it's a chore to build up stamina, but that it's this cool window of power that cycles through a battle and allows the player to understand his power spikes / windows of opportunity.

    Maybe you start off with stamina based on your agility, and also regen stamina each turn based on your agility, so that high-agility characters very quickly reach the 100 stamina point and get it back every 2 or 3 turns, whereas low-agi characters take 4 to 6 turns to get it back. Or, you could re-purpose the luck stat into the stat that determines the stamina level.
     
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