Start Up Cash

[Yui]

So I was asking around about prices (on these forums) recently, and I was sort of shocked at how low they were compared to other places I've been.

So I wanted to ask, what is a solid pre-kickstarter amount to start making a game with on rpg maker? From my research, 2k looks good, but something tells me it'll be a bit more (for example Unraveled is asking for 15k on their kick starter!!!) So, what in all of your experience is a good amount to have when starting a commercial RPG Maker project?

 

[Matseb2611]

I'd honestly say it depends on the amount of custom resources of each type you'd need, which in turn depends on how long the game is, how many existing/non-exclusive resources you're willing to use, and so on.

I personally spent only about $1-1.5k in total on Atonement (my first commercial game), and that one is about 10 hours long and (according to most players) is considered as a good quality game. So you don't have to fork out huge sums of money. You just need to keep your goals reasonable and manage your money well.

 

[Andar]

In my opinion, the most important condition before starting a commercial game is to have completed a non-commercial game.

That is because without having completed a game (including bughunting and balancing), you cannot realistically estimate anything about your commercial game, its budget, time limits and so on.

That is also something you should check on those kickstarter campaigns: Do they have a low target because the game is already complete and the developer just needs money for improving it, or do they have a low target because the developer never completed a game and doesn't know how much work his project will really be?

That said, the amount you need for your game depends on what you can do yourself and for what do you have to hire other people, because the biggest cost in any RM project are the commissions you need to pay for other people's work. Shop resources are cheap compared to commission prices, but commissions result in exclusive, unique resources for your game.

 

[Wavelength]

Unraveled has a ton of custom art, sound, gameplay and interface improvements.  $15K is justified for a game like that, but in general you won't need that much.

If you're creating all (or almost all) of the content yourself, and don't need massive amounts of custom resources, you can probably make the game for under $3K.

 

[bgillisp]

From what I've seen, scripts and art are the two most expensive items to commission for a game. If you need a custom battle system, you could easily need to spend $1K+ just for that.

However, I would suggest against kickstarter if you have never released a game yet. For one, most of those kickstarters fail, as donors are more skeptical these days. Secondly, if you do somehow fail, but you had ran a kickstarter, suddenly you have refunds to issue/disappointed backers, etc.

For those reasons alone, I've been funding my game on just what I can raise myself from side jobs. This way, if I fail, I'm only out the money I earned on side jobs, and I don't have disappointed backers to refund as well.

 

[rondchild]

Interesting discussion,


In my experience develop several games, you need know all about copyright issue.


Why they make target so high ?


of course, make game is not create game and publish in the internet etc.


You need to think marketing, the legality of the use of resources(if commish BGM,scripts,picture etc.), and exclusive rights.


Then use money for gift a backer, things can not be planned and etc.

 

[Clord]

If I had not mostly funded my commercial game by myself, I should have asked 10K dollars.


Sounds crazy eh?


Well, trailer did cost around 2K dollars.


Menu interface work, 2K dollars easily.


Battle interface work, around 2K dollars.


Eight characters with emotions and spriting, easily 2K dollars.


Music somewhere around 300 dollars.


Tileset additions, probably around 100 dollars.

 

[Kes]

@rondchild

Legality of the use of the resources is a red herring in this discussion.  This thread is about costs.

Costs will be affected by, for example, custom art for your characters, faces at least, busts/full body if you can afford it.  The more characters you have, the more art you will need, and therefore the more you need to budget for it.  Then there's your title screen.  Can you do the artwork for that yourself?  If you can't, budget for it.  How much music do you need?  Do you want custom, exclusive tracks or are you happy to use free/store packs?  Again your decision here will affect your budget.

You can see how all of these will affect how much you need in a substantial way.  Only you can decide these things, so only you can know how much you need to raise for resources, either through Kickstarter or some other way.

When you've established, roughly, what you need for resources, then you need to start thinking about how, if at all, you are going to do any marketing.  Is it something you can do yourself?  If not, and you want to do it. who will do it for you?  What will they charge?

If you have used Kickstarter or similar, what is the financial cost of any 'rewards' you have promised your backers?

 

[Bonkers]

Right now I am working on non-commerical games, and to purchase the resources for them is costing more than I originally estimated.  The budget you put forth along with your own time invested will vary- and more so with commerical games.  2,000 is not going to be enough if you plan on having custom made resources such as a tile set and portraits, a GUI/HUD, menu, music, sfx, etc.  Make a list of features and try to attached prices on them after looking at commission standards or discussing it further with someone who can provide the service.  Don't settle on your estimate as the final cost.  

My advice is to look at the length of game you want to create and go from there.  You'll also need to understand what you can feasibly do in a timely fashion.  More money doesn't necessarily mean a game will be done faster.  I know that's difficult to accept, but paying people incentive doesn't mean that everything will work in a plug and play fashion.  Adjustments need to be made, some resources may need edits to work properly and the scripts will always be temperamental.  

EDIT:  Both Cord and Masteb have been in this territory before.  I advise talking to either of them.  

 

[Clord]

I paid over 400 dollars to a professional 3D artist that works even for Disney. It was sold as part of Kickstarter tier and still can be bought from the certain site. Sending them to top tier backers ended up being too expensive.

Spoiler

 

[Prizmik]

I just want to remark that I find the prices discussed here shocking. I just never realized how much hiring people for help can add up to, because I never had a budget and only hired someone first time recently- for a 10$ script.


I make non commercial games, made all the art myself, sure it wasn't good at the beginning, but with a few years practice its perfectly usable.


Andar's suggestion is a great one, and by doing a non commercial game first, you should try to rely on yourself for everything. Go out of your way trying to draw your own sprites and art, make picture menus with events. So what if it is bad, it will get better and if it doesn't that's fine. The point is, by the end of it you will know exactly, what you can do yourself and what you really need to hire help for.


You will find yourself not only making your next project better, but by doing more things on your own you will be saving money for something else.


And your art doesn't have to be super crisp anime style, just look at games like: space funeral, the art there is low effort, forgiving of mistakes and yet very poignant.

 

[Clord]

From my experience. Artists that do quality art like Hirei's way cheaper tend to be from Philippines and they have this habit to bail and provide very inconsistent work. Sure they do 4K res wallpapers 25 dollars a piece and stuff like that but they also carry this risk of being very unreliable for any long term job.


So if I wanted to dig deeper, I could have saved thousands of dollars. However Hirei did put a lot of effort designing stuff, plus I wanted high quality artwork.

 

[Yui]

I've actually meet with an art studio from the Philippines not too long ago "Polywick Studios" They were super cheap, and provided good quality, sorta funny hearing that other filipino studios/artists are are cheaper as well!

 

[Clord]

You want to get someone reliable like Hirei if you need a lot of art. Too many different artists doing work for your project makes the end result look very inconsistent.


While my commercial game related Wallpapers are very good looking, they are obviously made by another artist.

 

[Yui]

I will probably need a lot, but I'm trying to cut away some stuff, so that it won't be that heavy on original arts. But it is rather hard because the artist inside of me is screaming "I want it all"

is there a list of reliable artists, programers, and musicians? Though I already have music covered, unless something bizarre happens.

 

[trouble time]

So far I'm spending about 55$ per character for 14 characters, not counting all the DLC packs I've bought. I'm likely to spend more if I want a side view battle system.So that's already  770$ and I'll likely need more. My game is going to be released for free too. Thankfully the people I've been working with have let me buy the various arts over time as opposed to all at once.

 

[Kes]

is there a list of reliable artists, programers, and musicians? Though I already have music covered, unless something bizarre happens.

Not as such, and I think it would be invidious to try and compile one.  However, what you could do is look at the Commercial Offers sub-forum, see who appears to be getting commissions filled, and use that as a basis.

When you are discussing a commission with someone you could ask who else they have worked for, ask for examples of their work, and if the person is completely unknown to you, you could contact one or two people they've worked for in the past and ask them for their confidential opinions.  Legitimate artists and musicians will be happy to indicate a couple of people they've worked for.  In fact, their threads may include that in the examples they post.

 

[Andar]

From my experience. Artists that do quality art like Hirei's way cheaper tend to be from Philippines

From my experience, it depends not on the exact country, but on the living costs where they live. There are countries where an entire family can live on 200$ for a month, and other countries where 2000$ is barely enough for a single person to pay all bills. And that affects how much they have to charge for their work.

Reliability is more a personal part of the problem - in all countries there will be people who are reliable and those who are not, and as said you need to check around to identify the reliable workers.

 

[Clord]

From my experience, it depends not on the exact country, but on the living costs where they live. There are countries where an entire family can live on 200$ for a month, and other countries where 2000$ is barely enough for a single person to pay all bills. And that affects how much they have to charge for their work.


Reliability is more a personal part of the problem - in all countries there will be people who are reliable and those who are not, and as said you need to check around to identify the reliable workers.

True. But it's known and if I remember right even researched that there is huge "scamming culture" over at Philippines unlike in most countries. It has gotten to the point that sites must warn you not to use Western Union as a payment method and that's a clear sign that you're about to be scammed.


Years ago that happened to me. Guy had internet identity and then he just disappeared. He even had this another guy reeling me into that trap. Since he didn't plan to finish his work anyway he opted into just asking me how much he should charge.


He finished some artwork and came up with an excuse that he needs a new PC to continue his work or something like that. Later he contacted me that he was in hospital in hopes that I'm foolish enough to send money the third time.

 

[Zeriab]

Remember that what projects gain through Kickstarter is usually taxable income and subject to various fees.

I wouldn't be surprised if Unraveled ended up with only have 10k usable for their project. And that is assuming they didn't pick too costly rewards. Some kickstarter projects have broken down due to too high cost of physical items.

*hugs*