Start Up Cash

[Wavelength]

Just as a bit of response to the scamming - I don't personally know about it too well on a country-by-country basis, but PayPal is kind of the de-facto method of payment around here (which is really good since they will do the currency conversion for you and do it cheaply) and if you pay on an item-by-item basis it makes it even easier to trust the people you are working with.

For the scripting commissions I've taken, I'll usually send an encrypted demo to the client (to prove that the work is done and make sure they're happy with it), then send an invoice, and once the invoice is paid I send over the full script or unencrypted project file.  (Most scripters I've hired have been even more generous than me, and they send over the full resource before requesting payment.)  You can do the same kind of thing with artists - have them make the initial sketch, then pay them, then they'll send over the final drawing when it's ready (for the first few pieces, make sure they complete it before you pay for too many more sketches!)

Some legitimate commission-takers do require payment up front, but unless the amount is tiny, you should view this as a red flag unless they have an established history in the community where they have taken and completed commissions to the requester's approval.

 

[Piplay]

True. But it's known and if I remember right even researched that there is huge "scamming culture" over at Philippines unlike in most countries. It has gotten to the point that sites must warn you not to use Western Union as a payment method and that's a clear sign that you're about to be scammed.


Years ago that happened to me. Guy had internet identity and then he just disappeared. He even had this another guy reeling me into that trap. Since he didn't plan to finish his work anyway he opted into just asking me how much he should charge.


He finished some artwork and came up with an excuse that he needs a new PC to continue his work or something like that. Later he contacted me that he was in hospital in hopes that I'm foolish enough to send money the third time.

We beg to disagree. We have two very talented artists based in the Philippines and we've been able to provide consistent output that's met our clients' standards.


It's very much as Andar says: You get what you pay for. $25 per artwork is at best enough for the artist's next Steam purchase, and definitely not the rent. Large projects at that going rate wouldn't have been feasible for anyone in the first place. I don't believe anyone of those artists were sincerely out to rip anyone off, but at what those rates it's easy to understand how other matters may take higher priority. We've managed a system to work around this: our one artist that handles all commissions here isn't currently participating in any of our own projects, so we offer his services here for practice and extra income. He is paid a fixed wage monthly apart from a cut of the commissions, so working as an artist full time is a little more plausible despite the low rates we offer.

 

[sabao]

I'd also like to point out that Archeia is Filipino and look at her. I find this generalization offensive.

OT: Depending on your goals, budgets fluctuate. A lot of RM projects get by on significantly lower budgets because they keep things simple: sprites may only require light edits because they stick mostly to RTP materials, custom art may be limited to a few characters or just the title screen and logo, music may be royalty-free. That's the beauty of the software, really-- entry-level game development on a light budget. It's not limited to just that if you set your ambitions a little higher, however.

Base your budget on whatever it is you think you need: look up prices of artists you want to commission. Talk to them if you have to, they may offer you a better deal for large orders (or if they'll take large ones at all). Same with scripts: try to see if a script of a feature you want has already been done or find one that works like it and see what the terms of use for them are before looking for a programmer to reduce cost and work. Cut costs on things that might be superfluous. This is just me, but 2000 USD for a promotional trailer is obscene. Motion graphic artists can add all the flashy effects and stuff they want and the quality and effort would justify the price, but at the end of the day, it isn't representative of the product.

 

[Yui]

okay realistically this is what I want in terms of battles





and I'm still debating over the outside world, but I want exploration, I plan on talking to an investor, next week, but I'm sure they'll suggest that I aim bigger and go for a different engine, but people have told me this is possible, and if I can get this quality from rpg maker, I'd rather make it with rpg maker...

Am I a fool for this?

edit: oops meant the Okoi video

 

[sabao]

I think that would be doable, but graphically are you making characters in that scale as well? Characters in that scale and size may cost more, compounded by the fact that animators will need to draw more frames so they animate smoothly. Good freelance 2D animators are extremely hard to come by.

 

[Yui]

I have been in talks with Polywick studio about this, but they want to go for a ps4/steam release, but like, I'm not confident enough to gamble on a publisher, or kickstarter. They really want to go full HD 3d graphics, but idk I would much prefer stylistically and money wise, to go with this type of look, because to me its much more beautiful and will really fit the story I'm trying to tell.'

Do you know any studios/artists who I could check into that could do this quality? I may still end up using Polywick though, they're affordable all things considered, and willing to help with programing, and music all for a single price, but we are still disagreeing on system of release (wii U, and steam for me, Ps4, Steam, and Mobile for them) And style of art (they suggest going more of a tales of zestiria look and feel, but I want this)

hmm, so its not looking good at this time with them, they are a great studio! don't get me wrong, but idk if they are willing to provide what I need or want!

 

[bgillisp]

For the battle system, that looks really close to the linear motion battle system that Mog just released. So someone might have already made a battle system for that.

 

[Yui]

For the battle system, that looks really close to the linear motion battle system that Mog just released. So someone might have already made a battle system for that.

it is very similar, but the LMBS is copyrighted by NamcoBandai, and is off limits, this battle system has more features as seen in this video below




this battle system has more features, then the basic LMBS, and allows for more then just linear movement!!!

 

[sabao]

I have been in talks with Polywick studio about this, but they want to go for a ps4/steam release, but like, I'm not confident enough to gamble on a publisher, or kickstarter. They really want to go full HD 3d graphics, but idk I would much prefer stylistically and money wise, to go with this type of look, because to me its much more beautiful and will really fit the story I'm trying to tell.'

Do you know any studios/artists who I could check into that could do this quality? I may still end up using Polywick though, they're affordable all things considered, and willing to help with programing, and music all for a single price, but we are still disagreeing on system of release (wii U, and steam for me, Ps4, Steam, and Mobile for them) And style of art (they suggest going more of a tales of zestiria look and feel, but I want this)

hmm, so its not looking good at this time with them, they are a great studio! don't get me wrong, but idk if they are willing to provide what I need or want!

From the looks of it, Polywick specializes in 3D graphics, which is probably why they want it in 3D. They may be familiar with other engines as well, so having to go and learn RM and RGSS would require additional work on their part. That shouldn't be a problem for programmers already well-versed in other languages, but given their skills it's easy to understand why they're giving you this offer. They hope that by working on a different engine you can release on several platforms instantly, making it all the more simpler to reach a bigger market. It's better bang for the buck you're paying them but it's a square peg in a round hole.

I'd personally take it if their support was that extensive.

 

[Yui]

It is a good offer, and they are being very understanding and helpful, but overall project cost stands at 1.2m, and that makes me weary, if I can not get publisher support (I only have dev license with Nintendo) or get good funding from the kickstarter, I'll be dead in the water with alot of fancy 3d models, though I could utilize them in the future, but for now I'll have blown a small fortune (not 1.2m, most of it is assumed to be from publishers and kickstarter) D: thats my only caution and why I'm considering taking this path, getting Art from them, and hiring some skilled ruby programers and making the game for steam in rpg maker.

But I am strongly considering your advice and I really would like to take the first path but, I'm just really worried, I don't wanna waste so much money and end up with nothing but fancy art!

 

[sabao]

The way I see it, you should start smaller. The studio obviously has good intentions, but you may be working with more than your means. I don't know how much Ardorlea spent on their first project, but a million is over the top unless you intend to overhaul a lot of its stock assets.

 

[Yui]

this is why I am looking at rpg maker I feel I can get a quality game for a fraction of this price :\ but am very uncertain right now.

 

[Wavelength]

If you go for a PS4 release (or even a PC Steam release where you're aiming for that level of action and smoothness in the battle system), who is going to program it?  What is your role in the project, exactly?

 

[sabao]

Yeah. Right now the problem is you're shooting with just an idea and no prototype. Without the technical skill of your own to create a test build, you're going to have a hell of a time trying to sell your idea to anyone who may be able to contribute.

 

[Yui]

My role, is one that many people will consider useless on this site, as so many people claim to do this ---->

I am skilled at creating GDDs (Game Design Documents) As well as managing a team.

however my true talent lies in story telling, creating believable worlds. I already have the GDD created, with mapping layed out for ps4, mobile, pc, and wii U depending on the system we choose. My idea system is the Wii U as I am in love with the gyroscope feature of the tablet controller, the touch pad on the controller, and other peripherals that, I had to cut compatibility with because of their scarcity. (such as the heart rate monitor).

In the project once it is underway, I will be doing story boarding, world concept and design (the application of), Dialogue, and team management. I will also be designing puzzles befitting of the game, and assisting in how we determine difficulty. Basically I'll be doing what all rpg maker devs do all the time QQ So I'm not really that important, I just have the money and am the lynch pin tying the group together 

@Sabao - I have the Game Design Doc, which details every aspect of the game to be included, so its not like its an aimless project!... but I'm having trouble envisioning my world in 3d... still it just doesn't fit.

 

[sabao]

Get a different design team in that case? It's probably not going to be any cheaper mind you, but your concern seems to be less about the budget and more about finding people who can do it the exact way you want it.

 

[Yui]

I should've done this earlier, but wanna continue in pms, I feel like I am spamming and derailing from the original topic of "Start Up Funds"

 

[Clord]

I'm not against Philippines and I do know some artists from there that are trustworthy.


I don't recall generalizing that they all are scammers, I'm just pointing out that it's more common there than in the most countries.


Every country has their own scammers.

 

[metronome]

Archeia is quite punctual and fast. She doesn't always hear you out, but she delivers you minimum


professional standard graphic quality in anime style. She is the best Filipino I have ever commissioned


in my life. (well. one example is not good enough I know...and art quality is subjective, that's


why I don't say "great artwork" and so on.)


@Nep Nepping


How bout creating a team aiming for making a prototype first? Prototype will give you good idea on


how much money, effort, time, and focus you gonna need when you jump into the water for real.....


And whoa...you gonna port RPGMaker game you make into PS4, wii, etc?

 

[sabao]

And whoa...you gonna port RPGMaker game you make into PS4, wii, etc?

A studio that offered its services to her had said they were capable of making games on those platforms, but not with RPG Maker. I don't believe Degica or eb! has actually released a legal way to publish RM projects into any other platforms yet.

But yeah, if it's a question of financial risk, I'd strongly advise investing in putting together the minimum viable product first. Get a scripting team together and see if you can pull the base mechanics of the game together first before spending an arm and a leg on graphics and music. Move forward only once you've actually accomplished and are satisfied with the prototype.

I don't recall generalizing that they all are scammers, I'm just pointing out that it's more common there than in the most countries.

Every country has their own scammers.

I live in the Philippines and work in the local games industry, so I've worked with a bunch of game artists here, both employed in studios and freelancing. All of whom have been absolutely professional so I'm not sure where you've been getting your people.