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bgillisp

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I'm going to add vote #32425 (or whatever it is) for build a prototype first. For my game, I didn't invest anything (money wise) until I had about 4 months work of work ready. You can use placeholders for sprites, music, and faces while you put together a few hours of game play, and make sure that it is possible to pull off what you wish to pull off. Otherwise, it is very easy to end up broke and with nothing to show for it.
 

Jomarcenter

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Well I already talk to composer, artist, etc... Inside and outside of RM and also got the list of local artist that I can hired using my local currency.

All of them are planned with a budget based on the pricing for each works done. double the amount as a emergency.

Excess money will be used for promotion and stuffs and extras.

For example I can hired 3 local artist from 500 to 10,000 pesos (due to the fact it will be used commercially) per work done rates. And also a few international artist for other stuffs like tileset and character set due to the reasons most of the local artist don't know RPG maker or only herd of it but never tried to use it.

And also a list of international few composer that is expertise on JRPG style music for the rate of 20$ to 300$ per minute. Local composer is very hard to find.

Plus other resources like proofreader, beta testers, etc.. may cost money or a free copy of the game.

Don't forget depends on your country's law you have to pay taxes so that an addition pay to consider if working on the Kickstarter project.

Edit: didn't notice on page 2 there was a fight about Filipino. But anyways I live in the Philippines. And mostly there is a ton of anime convention, Video game convention and Game Dev convention which you can use to find artist and other people that you can hired for your project.
I have 3 contact details and also a few business cards that I can contact them anytime to get the pricing and hired them.
 
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Wavelength

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So it sounds like you have contacts with console licensers and a professional art studio and (I presume) some professional programmers, but you and the art studio have some different creative ideas about the system and the gameplay?

So first of all, congratulations, because you're playing on the level that most people here merely dream of, and second of all, it's hard to give you good advice since I know nothing about the nitty-gritties of developing for proprietary consoles as opposed to PCs.

But I do know that it's a very extensive and expensive process (much moreso, from what I understand, if you use true 3D instead of 2D because everything, in both a graphics and gameplay sense, needs to be able to scale to different angles, distances, and orientations, and the "camera" requires a lot more logic to work well), and, like others here have said, if your end goal is a console release, you will want to abandon RPG Maker.  It produces a standalone .exe that plays on PCs (and can be integrated with Steam) but can't port to consoles.  Even if you did want to go to Steam only, RPG Maker is probably not the greatest platform for what you seem to want to do.  It can handle action elements with some scripting effort, but it doesn't do so in a particularly precise or smooth manner and it checks collisions by a sprite's location rather than whether its pixels have collided.

(And with that being said, I would assume most super-small console developers would have game development costs somewhere from $250,000 to $1,000,000 - way more than using RPG Maker or GameMaker or Unity or the like, so I hope you have a lot of money on hand, or that you're splitting the costs and profits with your other stakeholders!  But I could be way off.  Do some searching and see if you can find more accurate estimations for how much developing your game might cost.)

I suppose if your only concern is that you would have liked to use RPG Maker since you're comfortable with it, I'd advise you defer to Polywick on this one.  But you have sort of suggested that they want to create something somewhat different than what you have in mind (3D vs. 2D, and different engine), so unless they are a big stakeholder in your project that are helping you in other ways besides simply getting paid to produce graphics for you, you might want to find someone else that can meet your needs more closely.  Then again, I just visited their website, and it looks like they also do 2D graphics, so maybe they can do what you want as long as you stay firm in your request?

Some people have suggested making a "prototype" first, which I assume would be done so that you can make sure the project is feasible before you invest way too heavily in any one particular thing.  If the structure of the project is set up so that you're at the head of it and you're paying everybody a salary for their work on your game, then you definitely want to do this.  If it's set up so that they studios themselves are taking on most of the financial risk, and don't need much money from you until the you start making revenue, then a prototype is still a good idea as it will help you present your game to further investors and hired talent (you might be able to make a prototype for $25K instead of $500K, and can use that prototype to raise further money for the large project), but it becomes a little less necessary to you from a development standpoint.

I guess in the end you have to take everything I say here with a grain of salt since I've never been in a position with as much to gain or lose as you are (and I don't think too many members of RMW have).  It wouldn't be a bad idea to try to find someone who works in the console game industry that has worked on a game you respect, and reach out to them - just let them know you're a fan of their work, give them a two-line summary of the situation you're in and ask if it would be okay if you ran a few questions about game-making by them because you're in need of some good advice. :)
 
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Clord

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Can people stop flaming artists I pay for? Sheesh, it's not you who is paying the bills.


I recently got told how one of them was being harassed due the prices.
 
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sabao

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The earlier statements were misconstrued and I apologize. Still, it's upsetting to hear you've had bad run ins with artists here. I left it at that, however.

Shifting back to the topic at hand, you have more than enough for a decent RM game if you can afford to outsource work to a studio that specializes in 3D and console publishing. I reckon unless you consider working with something other than RM though, you're better off finding help from other people as Polywick seems to specialize in 3D and using other tools for publishing. I bet you'd get a much better deal and better results if you looked for people here instead if you choose to stick to RPG Maker.
 

Clord

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To answer about OP's shockingly low Kickstarter goals.


For many Kickstarter is place to fund your project entirely, some others it's away to get early publicity towards them.


My Kickstarter funded project hardly at all and it wasn't expected to even do that.


So why did I run Kickstarter with such a low goal? It happens when your projected funds are in minus by end of it so if even 10% of all the expenses get funded via that, it helps.


I think this thread should be closed but it's not my decision. Seems that this is not really a community to talk about these things when it comes to money.
 
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Andar

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Seems that this is not really a community to talk about these things when it comes to money.
Not exactly - there is a lot of commercial discussion here, including dozens of RM-Games that already sold on Steam and other places, and we have specific sections (classifieds) for offering and seeking paid services.
It's just that some people don't understand how business works and post their comments without understanding the consequences. You'll have to ignore them until a moderator has time to react (there aren't that many of us, and most work for free in their free time)
 

Clord

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Yeah I understand what you're saying. I just got frustrated earlier today while trying to make a "calm reply."


You're a good moderator Andar, hopefully Degica keeps you years to come.
 

Indrah

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...Why in the name of everything sacred is NO ONE POINTING OUT THAT THIS IS WAY TOO BIG FOR OP?!

Seriously, can I be a brutal villain here? The entire thing stinks of "money sink that is not going to go anywhere".

I'm not trying to bash you personally at all, but what's your EXPERIENCE? How many games have you finished, in what engines? And no, putting along with an engine for a month and maybe making a demo doesn't exactly count. How many GAMES? Did they have a good reception? Enough that you think you'd do well in a commercial game, even with a small budget?

Honestly, the entire thing seems hilariously misguided. Why are you talking with a big studio if you don't even have someone to do the GAMEPLAY for the game? Art is a big aspect, yes, but none of your skills or the studio's cover the most important bits. 

And management? Let me be horribly, offensively blunt: that skill is only useful when you have EMPLOYEES. Do you have them? People directly under your orders in need of management with a SALARY? Because let me tell you straight, if you go around being the manager in a small team of developers and contributing ONLY the managing and some piddly dialog writing, you're going to lose people left and right. In this circle (RM) none of us are so well off that we can afford to give a salary to a team of employees, and teammates (partners) are not employees in this circle. You need viable skills. And I'd say "planning and management" is not one. All of us have big dreams and can plan big, mean spreadsheets. 

Right, let me wind down a bit.

For all I know, maybe you're a really experienced dev with three dozen games under your belt, but I think you would have mentioned. My piece is: if you have not finished a game, you have NO BUSINESS thinking of commercial.

Even then I would flat out never buy games from certain devs with even finished games based on the quality of their development, but that's another issue.

So really, it feels like you have an overblown case of "newbie dream big". Which we all do and eventually realize is not going to happen, but you're dangerously rolling ahead with big money up front? Looks like a tragedy waiting to happen to me. 

Let me challenge you: make ONE GAME. For free and with no budget or a very tiny one (no more than 200$). Break your horns agaisnt the hard work and grind that is game development, and only after THAT get involved with big dreams of expensive commercial games.

In gentler terms: you are going to smack yourself into a wall if you keep this direction up.

In essence, you're someone who's a fan of music but never played the piano, but loves it and wants to be a pianist. So you're planning to buy a pricey nice piano and, I dunno, hire a big scenario for a concert, without stopping to think you've never LEARNED or PRACTICED with the instrument. It's as ridiculous as it sounds.

And please do correct me if I'm wrong on the assumption that you don't have much previous experience, I'd love to be wrong (not being sarcastic). 

Sorry for the harsh tone but I was horrified that no one was stopping you with no experience and I felt SOMEONE should (maybe I missed some fact and I'm barking up the wrong tree, who knows). 

If I offended or hurt you, I apologize. But I hope it at least shocks you out of whatever daydream newcomers usually occupy (not an insult, WE ALL DO IT. ALL OF US) and makes you at least CONSIDER what I'm saying. Even if you don't agree.

Cheers and good luck.
 
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Clord

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Actually in a case of failure, a real losers would be those who helped to fund it.


But yeah, it's better to be careful like Indrah said. If you are going to do your first commercial game, it should probably be something low budget at least so that even if it not end up selling, you're not in huge debt or anything like that.


Start small, dream big. ;)
 

bgillisp

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I second Clord on this. That's why I funded my game entirely on side job money (which I saved up over a few years). This way I'm accumulating 0 debt as I make the game, so even if my game is a total flop, or, worse yet, does not get finished, I'm out only that saved up money.
 

Scythuz

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I think Indrah's idea of making a practice game would be very very wise if you've never made a game before.  You've mentioned that you're getting in touch with an investor, but they're going to want to know what you can do before you get any money sent your way.  If you have any previous projects done then you should probably show us them now for a few reasons: 1. If you have made past games it gives us an idea of what you should aim for budget-wise 2. You can get feedback on them and know whether you're ready to go commercial or not.

If you haven't made any past projects then you should really just stop right there and think about why you're doing this.  Going commercial with your first game is very rarely going to work out, I see so many people make this mistake on here and other sites and it's just not fun to watch the inevitable happen.  People get overly ambitious, they always talk about these great ideas but they don't have the required skill to implement them.  They try to get other people to join by whatever means necessary and then they realise that they don't know how to manage people, how to keep people inspired, how to compensate other people for their efforts.  

Eventually it becomes too much and usually they either leave entirely, lash out at the other team members and blame them for the mistakes or they do any combination of things that harm their reputation and confidence irreparably.  Look at any game development forum and you will see this happen in one form or another.  I've now learned how to identify these people and I won't work for them no matter how much money they try to throw at me.

I think everyone got a bit too caught up in all these other issues to notice the real problem here.  Which is that we don't know what the original poster can do and if they're even ready for a commercial game yet.
 

Makio-Kuta

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Agreeing with Indrah and Scythuz here. Let's say you do a kickstarter for your very first game - why should I fund it? What have you shown me to make me WANT to hand you money to make this? Looking to other people to help pay for your project expects a lot of things out of them - and the BIGGEST thing is trust. They'll need to trust you can do the work your ideas require, trust you'll bring them the game you pitched and they desire, trust they are putting their hard earned cash on something that is going to be worth it.

If I saw a kickstarter for a game and the person had no past experience with game dev, had no tech demos, no tangible way for me to see that YES this person is a person who finishes things and is a person who delivers what they promise - I wouldn't back it. Lots of people would feel the same way. Yes, there are kickstarters that -HAVE- succeeded without these things, but often that is riding on a wave of popularity and the people in question have shown (in realms outside of game dev) that they are sound people who make good on promises made.

As a new fresh face you wouldn't have that strength behind you.

I've put my money towards a fair number of kickstarters, and the FIRST thing I look for is how credible the company/person is. What they've made prior, how it was received, etc I can recall seeing something that looked and sounded REALLY awesome, but everyone involved had NOTHING to show for themselves and I closed the tab so fast ---

Your first game should NOT be commercial. Your first games are there for you to learn. For you to share and take in feedback. For you to build up a reputation and fanbase of sorts. Indrah's piano metaphor there is PERFECT. You would not plop down $2000 on a piano because you get the idea of a song in your head; you would not expect someone ELSE to buy you a $2000 piano because you tell them you have a good idea how to play it and make a nice song.

Being an 'idea person' only gets you so far. Being a person who can execute ideas - and SHOWS they can execute ideas - is going to get you farther.

In your opening post you say that $2000 sounds like a good amount of money for a game. Then you link what sort of battle system you want your game to have - and it is WIDELY outside of anything that would be $2000 to make from the amount of art assets alone. I'm sorry if it sounds rude, but the comments you have made in this thread sound largely uneducated towards the realities of game development. It doesn't strike me as the words of someone who is serious about what they are talking about. I think you would find yourself SHOCKED at how much actually goes into a game - TIME and MONEY and EFFORT.

Take Indrah and Scythuz advice and make something smaller. Learn from it. Share it here and learn from others. Familiarize yourself with what you are sticking your head in before you start thinking about spending your money, or for heaven's sake someone else's money, on something that you sound fully ignorant to. The scenario Scythuz painted in his post is not one that is uncommon and we've all seen it, heck some of us may have even been IN it; it's not fun and it's not pretty.
 

dungeon diver

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Personally, I'm looking at itch.io as my primary platform because I want my product to be free but with the possibility of bringing in some coffee funds if people happen to enjoy what they play.

Creative minds need to be encouraged even when inexperienced and sloppy, I make it a point to look for promising indie developers that need some help getting a leg to stand on for future reference when I'm in a position to lend them a hand. We're living in the age of unpaid internship sweatshops and because entry level jobs are failing people so much inexperienced talent is amassing debt and falling through the cracks at an alarming rate.
 

metronome

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To answer about OP's shockingly low Kickstarter goals.


For many Kickstarter is place to fund your project entirely, some others it's away to get early publicity towards them.


My Kickstarter funded project hardly at all and it wasn't expected to even do that.


So why did I run Kickstarter with such a low goal? It happens when your projected funds are in minus by end of it so if even 10% of all the expenses get funded via that, it helps.


I think this thread should be closed but it's not my decision. Seems that this is not really a community to talk about these things when it comes to money.
Err... I don't know what happened and why the hell should they bash your artists (where you are the one paying here).


I am personally really thankful that you would share how much you spend to get your game into commercial release. It is a pretty nice reference/information that I do hope others that have jumped into the same water willing to share their experiences.


(I am assuming these 2000 usd on 8 chara + expression + sprite, 2000 for trailer, 2000 usd for UI, 2000 for BI, 300 for music, 100 for map are your spending foryour newest STEAM released game The Clan, right?).


In fact. In term of information. For me. That's the most important information I get from this topic.
 
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Braydon

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What are typical sales on an RPG maker game? It seems to me like a lot of the less successful ones would be losing money with these costs. I mean I didn't really expect an rpgmaker game to exceed a few hundred sales or so.
 

Andar

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There are dozens of RM games that are successfull enough that the developers can live on the sales - several companies of developers to be exact.


But most probably you won't get any hard numbers of sales, because the usual contracts between developer and distributor forbid publication of exact sale figures.
 

Braydon

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Ya I know, just wondering if anyone could give a general ball park for sales. Not that I'll probably actually ever make a commercial game.
 

Wavelength

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...Why in the name of everything sacred is NO ONE POINTING OUT THAT THIS IS WAY TOO BIG FOR OP?!

...
I pictured you saying this whole soliloqui in that lovely accent of yours, Indrah, and I was just smiling ear to ear like an idiot for five minutes afterward. :)

Based on what Nep already seems to have set up (a licensing deal available with Nintendo and some sort of relationship with the graphics studio), I assume that she has a good deal of experience and resources behind her.  This is why I think most people aren't advising "this is too big for you".  If this is a bad assumption that I made, then sure, your advice (and Scythuz's and Makio's) should be heeded because game-making is indeed a much bigger undertaking than anyone could ever imagine.

Or, on the other hand, if you don't have a lot to personally lose, Nep (for example someone reputable saw your game idea, loved it, and funded it without requiring you to put out much money), and you have (or can find) people to do all the things that you can't (like programming)... then I say go for it, even if this is your first time!  You can learn a lot more by going through all the obstacles for real with a game intended for mass markets than you can by making a tiny little zero-budget hobby game on your own in RPG maker.  Just... if you do have a lot to lose in the case of failure, definitely get your legs under you with the hobby game first.
 

Indinera

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What are typical sales on an RPG maker game? It seems to me like a lot of the less successful ones would be losing money with these costs. I mean I didn't really expect an rpgmaker game to exceed a few hundred sales or so.
Ya I know, just wondering if anyone could give a general ball park for sales. Not that I'll probably actually ever make a commercial game.
There is no rule of the thumb, from the lowest performers to the highest ones, the difference is huge.

That said, "a few hundred sales" is actually a terrible result, moreso if those sales were at a low price like $4.99

Most RM games make more than $1000, a significant part of them make way more than $10,000

I thought I might as well answer the OP:

So, what in all of your experience is a good amount to have when starting a commercial RPG Maker project?
You can make an excellent seller with $100.

Don't believe what you see on Kickstarter. I would never believe someone who tells me how much they need knowing I have no way to verify how much they really need - people want money, as simple as that, and KS is a reflection on that 10x more than on real budget needs.
 
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