Starting At The End Of The Story

[consolcwby]

Hi everyone. I couldn't find if this has been discussed before - and currently I am 'locked-in' to my current project I cannot change it. But I wanted opinions from experienced makers anyway. So, here goes:


When I started my project, there was no direction and I allowed my ideas to flow - especially world building. It was all off the cuff. But now that I am 25% into it, a story has emerged: an epic, world-spanning adventure of Order vs Chaos, of a group of four heroes who tragically failed. It is so interesting, I can't stop thinking about it! Here's the problem, the game I'm making is the final part of the story - the 5th part. So, I'm actually starting at the end - 1000 years after the heroes failed, as a new group of heroes have emerged knowing nothing but vague legends of the original four. They will end the story by tying up the loose ends. Can't see the problem?... I'm starting at the end of the story - a more interesting story than what I am presenting. It's kind of like what George Lucas did with starting in the middle of his Star Wars story. And I find myself digging a similar hole, with similar problems. So, because I am stuck within my own self-made paradigm of anti-climax, I was wondering what opinions people have regarding starting a multi-chapter story in the middle, or even at the end. Would this be considered unique, or bad-form? How would a designer handle the final revelations during the last boss fight? Would it be a cop-out to leave some things unanswered since they are in the past? I'm not asking for myself specifically, since the characters and story are locked. They've taken over and I can't stop them!


So, anyone with any experience, opinions, or advice for peeps doing this sort of thing? I can give more details, but I want this to be a design discussion and not about my game per se. I think the problems I'm running into are things people can learn from, but I'd rather talk about it after I finish the game, you know? Anyways, thanks for reading! I can't wait to hear the responses from this fine community!

 

[Arcmagik]

There is a writing technique that is similar to this. I think it exists in all forms of media in some form or another where you start at the end and work backwards. The biggest reason is during the course of the project you learn and evolve. You get better at what you are doing... the first thing you put to paper is going to be the worse of it. So you put that stuff at the end so by the time you finish everything your best stuff is at the beginning of the project. The stuff that NEEDS to hook people is the very best that you had to offer during the project. 


Though I am not sure how this applies to a series of games but on a per project basis then that is a true technique.

 

[Aoi Ninami]

Firstly, don't think of it as a multi-chapter story, but as two stories in the same universe. And in that case, there's no problem with telling the later story first, then going back to tell the backstory that led to it. There are tons of examples: Narnia, Redwall, Star Wars (as you mentioned), Fate/zero... that's just a few off the top of my head. It does mean that, for anyone experiencing the stories in publication order, when they turn to the prequel they already know how it turns out. But you can use that to your advantage to create and subvert expectations; it doesn't have to spoil the experience.


Secondly, don't think of one of your instalments being more interesting than the other. That's a value judgement, and your audience may not share it. All the parts will develop and become more interesting as you work on them, in any case. It's your job to make each part as good as it can be, and leave the rest to time.

 

[VicWhite]

Hello @consolcwby! I am no developer expert, but I did some writing in my life (15 years) and I would like to share my thoughts with you- Hope them help!


My humble opinion: you are wrong by taking Star Wars as a good example. But is a perfect example of your risks. 


It's no a complete story, but 2 trillogies. You take the first trilogy and, apart that it begins in the middle of what lucas had written, not only works as an independent story, but as the oldest story ever; what Campbell called "the monomyth", a narrative pattern based on classical myths.


If you take the frist (recent) trilogy as a continuation to Star Wars, narrative tension and quality only drops from the highest moment on the saga: Vader's redemption.


Maybe what you need is a flashback to return to the story with another point of view. Example of that: the Hateful eight.


Because you are playing with very delicate materia here, and it's narrative tension. So be careful.

 

[consolcwby]

@VicWhite I partially disagree with your Star Wars assessment. The actual films, you are correct ABSOLUTELY on. But I'm talking about the early stuff Lucas wrote before the 1977 film. Campbell was NOT the influence, that in itself is a myth. The original draft is based directly on Akira Kurasawa's Hidden Fortress. The next draft and notes are the ones I usually think about. Lucas admitted to reading The Hero Of A Thousand Faces in 1978 after the film came out. His wife Marcia had read it earlier and helped him with the drafts. That's why the format is partially monomyth, partially 'Flash Gordon", and partially art film. I have Campbell's book here. I, myself go more for the Jugian archetypes, but the structure of the monomyth is a bit overdone nowadays but fine.


The original story, as far as the notes go, has the action picking right up after the trade-embargo caused by the Clone Wars. The interesting thing is the three part story he wanted to tell is infused within six films, reimagined and scattered about. Not surprising he took the best stuff first though!

Because you are playing with very delicate materia here, and it's narrative tension.

And that's the quandry, isn't it? The story in the current game, as it stands, is divided into 3 acts - 3 chapters per act. The beginning meanders a bit. However, the construction is to build slowly up to a very structured third act. Almost corridor type maps, etc. I feel this shows a juxtaposition between Chaos and Order. As the characters grow and are informed, so has the player. So, confronting the foozle at the end - finding out what it all means, what the REAL stakes are and whether to just walk away from it - is the crux. If I can pull that off, people will still wonder what really happened in the past. This way, if I ever want to revisit the world within a sequel, I still have some room for narrative. But you are absolutely right. If you can elaborate on that quote, I think others might understand the problem more clearly.  And thanks for posting!

 

[VicWhite]

You are taking two different subjects here, @consolcwby, and I think that's the important point on talking about SW in reference with the game you are making. One subject it's what Lucas has in his head. The other is how the public received his movie.


For Lucas, the story can be what you recall, a 6 episodes arch beginning with the cargo scene. But we all know how most of the people received the new trilogy. What I wanna make you think about is always think on how the people on the other side of your head will recieve your story (game, book,... whatever). Then, be honest with yourself and try not to be fascinated by the feeling you have in your mind.



Thanks to you for sharing your special project with us, just trying to help with my little wisdom. Let me know anything you need.

 

[consolcwby]

Hey, no problem! I'm not exactly a neophyte writer, not exactly pro either. My schooling was in Television and Film, but I never wrote anything for that medium. Just a few short stories, a poem, and an essay. Big whoop. I love hearing from people with more experience! If you have anything else to say on the matter, advice, or anything. Please don't hesitate! I am giving your post serious consideration.

 

[VicWhite]

Hey, no problem! I'm not exactly a neophyte writer, not exactly pro either. My schooling was in Television and Film, but I never wrote anything for that medium. Just a few short stories, a poem, and an essay. Big whoop. I love hearing from people with more experience! If you have anything else to say on the matter, advice, or anything. Please don't hesitate! I am giving your post serious consideration.

Yes! I can see you are no neophyte. Sorry if I express quite in an elemental way, but that's only because of my poor english language mastery. I see you have your idea, but here I am, just trying to make yourself give a think or two on the steps you are taking 


I'd be happy to learn more about the project. At this point, is difficult for me to give you more than vague ideas, but i will gladly give you feedback on the game sometime.

 

[consolcwby]

Vic, Thank you! I can see you're living in Spain - it's right under your avatar. I wish I took Spanish in school now instead of French! I'll take you up on your generous offer - I haven't written anything serious for over twelve years and ANY help is appreciated! Thank you! (We will get over the language issues. I have cousins in Italy and we get along fine without me knowing any Italian whatsoever!) When I have more, I'll contact you! Thanks again!