@Tai_MT I don't see your problem with the numbers. We are crafting games based on numerical rules, and we have to draw the line somewhere. The difference between 58 and 59 Speechcraft is just as arbitrary as a 5% Evade chance or a sword strike that deals x damage. Oh no, if it had been x+1 I could have killed the enemy! Making it binary makes just as much sense as a fighter learning every single combat skill at once at first level.
This is only partially true. Some people are crafting games based on numerical rules. Others are crafting games based on more than a Progression system. For example, much of my combat uses stats, but those stats aren't all that important, and aren't freely handed out. I'm crafting an actual RPG experience where your choices, the characters, and the story are what matters. I'm not crafting a "dungeon crawler" with a numbers based Progression System.
Logically speaking, I doubt I'm the only one.
Likewise, you're confusing "abstraction" with "hard numbers". 5% evade chance is an abstraction in combat. It is meant to signify the chance a character might reasonably dodge an incoming attack. After all, in any fight, not every swing hits. Not every swing is blocked. Some just straight up miss. 5% evade is meant as an "abstraction". This is also true of damage dealt. It's an abstraction. It is an indication of how hard you might have to reasonably fight an enemy before it goes down or how hard enemies have hit your party members to put them down.
Meanwhile, "speechcraft" as a skill would be an abstract idea, that we've given "solid numbers to", which makes no sense. Such a thing implies that you could make the exact same argument to an NPC and the only thing that stops you is that you lack a single point in the skill to make it work. It's stupid and asinine.
Imagine that. Imagine I have a Speechcraft maxed out at 100 and all I say is, "dude, just do what I say" and the game says that works. All because my stat is 100.
"Dude, do what I say!" (Speechcraft 10/100 Failed!)
"Dude, do what I say!" (Speechcraft 20/100 Failed!)
Do you understand the point here?
Things that normally affect something like convincing someone to do what you want:
1. If you're intimidating them or sweet talking them.
2. If the person trusts you at all.
3. If the person is even willing to listen to you.
4. Your reputation.
5. If the person owes you a favor.
Etcetera, etcetera.
The difference between 49 Speechcraft and 50 means absolutely nothing. It's a hard number arbitrarily assigned for no reason other than the dev couldn't find a way to make their RPG unique.
I don't know about anyone else, but I'd rather run around doing the work to get NPC's to trust me and listen to me instead of just going, "Oop, now I've got 50 Speechcraft, they'll do what I say now even though I totally murdered half of their clan."
I have the same issue with most "Lockpicking" and "Hacking" systems as well. Rather than raise an arbitrary number to even be able to attempt to lockpick or hack, I'd rather be able to attempt it no matter what and my success or failure depends on my skill. Or, if I can't use my own skill, there's a reasonable representation of how much the character actually knows about security systems. Do they know tumbler locks? Combination locks? Do they have a skill to use a "bump key"? Etcetera. I would much rather see, "X has learned how to crack safes!" than "X has gained 12 points in Lockpicking!".
This is why my "skillchecks" always succeed. This is why, even in D&D, I don't tell players what number they have to get for any skillcheck they want to roll. I ask them to describe what they're doing and then roll, and base the roll of the dice on any "luck" factor of the action, while the action itself either succeeds or fails on its own merit.
I've never really been a fan of a game telling me I need a specific stat to do a specific action. All that ever makes me do as a player is grind out that stat so I can do that action. Or, in REALLY FUN cases... forces me to only make characters that take advantage of specific and frequent skills. For example... I've never played a Fallout game in which I didn't main Speechcraft, Lockpicking, and Hacking and max them out as quickly as possible. Why? Because it gives me the most access to the game. Provides the most XP for level ups. Provides good loot. Allows me to solve problems without killing everyone.
But, it forces me to make the same character every single time. This same thing happened with the two newest Deus Ex games as well. Speechcraft, Lockpicking, Hacking. Happened to me in Cyberpunk as well. Hacking and Engineering.
Most often, all a stat check is doing is telling the player, "come back later when you've leveled up that stat". Or, "savescum here".
I am simply not interested in designing those kinds of games. I would rather my players lockpick anything that can be lockpicked, provided the character knows how to do it. I would rather my smooth talking characters be able to talk through many situations, unless they'd irreversibly destroyed credibility in some way with the person they're talking to.
I'm not interested in playing games that offer "skill checks", as they force me to play the same character every single time. I am not interested in playing games that only open up routes to you if you have the proper number next to a skill.
I would much rather any "skill check" that exists be an expression of how much ACTUAL EFFORT I put into the game rather than how long I walked in circles while watching Netflix to level up the skill I need. I would rather have a sprawling quest to unite the kingdom behind me by doing favors and gaining reputation as a genuine hero than just have everyone agree to my terms because, "hurr, durr, I haz 100 speach".
One of these things is more immersive than the other. I prefer to be immersed if at all possible. Especially since most games go out of their way to destroy any and all immersion just so people can watch numbers get bigger. It's hard for me to care about a number getting bigger. It's easier for me to care that a character respects mine because of the favors I've done for them and the ways I've shown I care about them.
I care less about my Speechcraft hitting 100 than I do that I made poor decisions on who to trust and back in the coming fight, so I've been vilified by a faction I like.
I'm more into RPG's than Dungeon Crawlers. I like conversations and story more than I like cookie clicker.
