Stat Requirements for Weapons?

Frostorm

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I wanted to see what people think of the idea of having stat requirements for certain weapons. For example, a Short Bow with light draw weight (~35lbs) might have a Strength requirement of 2 while a Longbow with heavier draw weight (~95lbs) might have a Strength requirement of 6 and then a massive Warbow with a draw weight of ~185lbs could have a Strength requirement of 10 Strength.
*small numbers used for stats for example purposes*

The same idea could be extended to other weapon types as well, or even caster type weapons. Thoughts?

This mechanic might not work as well for games where the characters have predefined roles/classes. It's more suited for customizable blank slate type characters.

Edit: I just watched a Shadiversity video that touched on Orcish Bows potentially having a MUCH higher draw weight to take advantage of their superior physiology. They might have even draw weights upwards of 300lbs. Joe Gibbs (a mere Human) can shoot 200lb bows accurately, so it wouldn't be much of a stretch lol.
 
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Finnuval

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This mechanic might not work as well for games where the characters have predefined roles/classes. It's more suited for customizable blank slate type characters.
I would disagree and argue the opposite actually. With predefinned classes this is a good way to gate stronger weapons to certain levels.
However if I am a blankslate then I dont want to spend 10hrs wielding a shortsword before I can get my hands on a broadsword or longsword or katana.

But thats Just me again xD
 

Frostorm

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Hmm, that's a good point regarding the predefined classes. For blank slate characters, I was thinking the requirement would be so that someone who built up their character as a pure caster couldn't just go and wield a massive Greatsword of Giantslaying lol.
 

Finnuval

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Hmm, that's a good point regarding the predefined classes. For blank slate characters, I was thinking the requirement would be so that someone who built up their character as a pure caster couldn't just go and wield a massive Greatsword of Giantslaying lol.
That is fine however (personal petpeeve comming) what I truly hate is when, often with bladed weapons, certain weapon classes are locked behind other classes which makes no sense. You dont need skill with a dagger to master a katana and mastering a katana doesnt make you a master with a rapier (very different style).
So aslong as you dont group all bladed weapons together then yess This mechanic can work well in any situation and is a good way to keep ppl in their respective classes however make sure different blade types also havee different grow paths xD
 

Aesica

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Never been a huge fan of stat requirements on equipment. It's like:

"I can't pick up this bow and use it at all!"
lifts some weights.
"Nope, still too weak to use it."
Lifts more weights.
"Aah there we go, I can pick it up and use it like a pro!"

Instead, I prefer to just go with the tried-and-true equipment restrictions by class approach. Wimpy the Mage probably can't swing a Buster Sword effectively, so he' like, "nope, can't equip greatswords, not my thing. Gimme something like a wand or rod I can channel my magic through instead."
 

Frostorm

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That is fine however (personal petpeeve comming) what I truly hate is when, often with bladed weapons, certain weapon classes are locked behind other classes which makes no sense. You dont need skill with a dagger to master a katana and mastering a katana doesnt make you a master with a rapier (very different style).
Yea that totally wouldn't make sense lol. I'm only thinking of doing raw stat requirements instead of weapon type skill requirements.
Instead, I prefer to just go with the tried-and-true equipment restrictions by class approach. Wimpy the Mage probably can't swing a Buster Sword effectively, so he' like, "nope, can't equip greatswords, not my thing. Gimme something like a wand or rod I can channel my magic through instead."
But what if your game doesn't have predefined classes? Mine's a build your own classless system.
"I can't pick up this bow and use it at all!"
lifts some weights.
"Nope, still too weak to use it."
Lifts more weights.
"Aah there we go, I can pick it up and use it like a pro!"
 
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Aesica

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But what if your game doesn't have predefined classes? Mine's a build your own classless system.
Even then, I've always found it irritating to find/create/earn an upgrade, only to be stuck with the noob mace I've been using for the last 10 levels because I still don't have enough strength. That's just me, though.
 

rainyday

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I think it really depends on how many weapons you have and how easy raising stats/respecing stats is.

Take the Soulsborne franchise for instance. Each of the Dark Souls games have dozens, occasionally hundreds of weapons, some good, some not so good. But from the start of the game to the very end of the DLC, there's always new weapons you can find that fit your build. And if, say, you wanna use a katana but your stats aren't right for it, it's fairly easy to respec and change your build to use it effectively.
In Bloodborne however, the weapon selection is much, much smaller, to the point where half the time you can end up just staying with your starting weapon cause its the only thing that fits your stats well. Half the weapons I picked up in Bloodborne I couldn't use cause of my stats, which would be fine if the game had more than say 20 weapons.

If you have enough weapons, both types like swords, maces, etc., and then individual weapons within that type, then I say go for it. If not, I think I you run the real risk of adding weapons the player/party can never use and make your player frustrated by getting weapon rewards that don't fit their stats for most of the game.
 

Frostorm

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I have 12 weapon types in my game or 15 if including Shields, Tomes, & Orbs. I would only implement the stat requirements to the degree in which a build that's very caster oriented wouldn't be able to use very melee oriented weapons and vise versa. In other words, very lax requirements. If an end game melee build character is expected to have ~150 STR by max lv, it would only require ~50 STR for the heaviest of weapons.

Edit: You know what, I think ima scrap this mechanic after all... My initial goal was to prevent build/gear mismatch, but if players wanna play that way and do suboptimal damage, I might as well let them lol. I realized you guys were right, it would only serve to annoy players and not really add to the game, even if it's more realistic/immersive.

Oh that's another thing: immersion. Do you guys think it breaks immersion if a scrawny mage is able to wield a humongous 2-hander?
 
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Black Pagan

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I very much dislike any Forced Restrictions to equip Gear, Based on Stat Requirements. The simplest reason is this : RPG Maker MV Item Description doesn't seem big enough to accommodate the exact information.

If you really want to try something like this, I would suggest you represent this not through Numbers in the Item description at all but through clever alternate ways like a Red Aura around gear, Meaning its a Strength Item or a Green aura meaning its an Agility Item. Also, Consider Player levels, They are better than requiring Raw Stats, Because it makes it way simpler.

Looking up how much Str I have for equipping "X" feels too complicated and boring compared to simply knowing what Level my Character must be to use it. Having said all this, I think it can be made into a nice feature, As long as you make it very simple, Not complicated. I think it definitely breaks immersion if my mage could weird a Great-sword or my Warrior wielding a Crossbow. Add Stat Requirements to this already Abnormal feature and it becomes more Bizzare and Complicated. Remember, The Key to all Games is Simplicity.

An Alternate way of doing this : Declare the various kinds of weapons your Characters can use before the Game even begins, Through a Screenshot or unique aura colors around Weapons. So the Player now knows what are the Various Weapons the Character can equip. This makes it much much simpler !!!

Example : Mage can use Weapons with Blue Aura, Warrior uses Weapons with Red Aura.. etc. Now i don't need to rely on checking Stat window or Levels, I just know which Character uses what weapon. See, It went from Complicated Stat checking with complex Numbers to Extremely Simple Color code !!!
 
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Frostorm

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I'm using an Icon Captions plugin to have tooltips when you hover over an icon, freeing me from the limitations of the 2 line description window (which I've actually gotten rid of entirely). The alternate way won't work for my game however since you're able to equip any weapon/armor type by intentional design. I'm just looking for a way to prevent a character that's been built as a mage from using a giant 2-hander or warbow and vise versa. I agree with simplicity design philosophy as in less is more. I just don't know if the aura idea will work since my game encourages hybridization... So builds will rarely be purely 1 archetype, except perhaps pure casters. I know some players will definitely go that route (but they would be mixing different schools of magic instead). I have 15 skill trees that players can mix and match with.

Icon Captions for those that are interested:

Edit: On second thought, the red/blue/green idea might work...
 

Milennin

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I don't really like it, but more for the reason I don't check my stats all that much. General level requirements are better, because my character's level is quicker to look up, and it generally shows at the end of each battle, so easier to keep track of.
 

HumanNinjaToo

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I'm just looking for a way to prevent a character that's been built as a mage from using a giant 2-hander or warbow and vise versa.
Why? Playing a sorcerer build with the Moonlight Greatsword in Dark Souls was OP!
 

Wavelength

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Stats can already be used (and almost always are used) to determine how effective you are at doing things with a weapon, so I don't really see any point to gating the actual use of weapons behind stats, unless you're aiming for a less-reliable (and therefore I think also kind of pointless) backdoor to gating the use of powerful weapons to low-level characters.

And the only place I can see there being a use for that would be in games where you either recruit or gacha low-level characters throughout the entire game (or in MMOs where high-level players can give/sell ridiculous weapons to low-level players). If you want to make sure that low-level characters can't quickly catch up (and I would argue that they should quickly catch up to incentivize players to give them a try), level requirements are a good way to do it (and stat requirement are a sort of mediocre way to do it).

The drawback - and this is a major one - is that the player will work hard to earn a really cool weapon, or experience great serendipity to come upon a really cool weapon (as a rare drop or surprise treasure chest find), and it will feel like a high moment getting it... and then that high moment will just be shattered by the fact that no one can use that weapon that you just got!! For this reason I have never added usage requirements (besides class) to a weapon, and I don't really plan to in any RPG.

The one way I could see it working as a necessary or cool feature is if weapons were entirely reimagined with a different purpose - for example, they don't grant any stats at all, but each better tier of weapon offers increasingly-powerful side effects for your attacks and skills. For example, axes offer more powerful bleeds, swords offer increasingly high chance of crits, and hammers stun any enemy whose DEF is lower than an ever-increasing (X). In such a case, I could see the scenario where you would want to restrict the really cool levels of certain bonus effects to either characters who have invested in a certain stat, or to characters who naturally get a certain stat with level-ups. That could be pretty cool. But even then, the argument could be made for removing the restrictions entirely.

Maybe I'm just entirely missing something? I see some points being made about "realism", which stats should be used for which weapons, and how it prevents characters from going hybrid (which I consider a big flaw rather than a benefit)... but what do you guys see as the core purpose for having this kind of Stat Requirement mechanic in the first place?
 

Frostorm

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@Wavelength No, you're completely right. I see no purpose in stat requirements other than for realism/immersion like you said, which was the driving force behind my initial idea to implement the mechanic. However, the drawbacks to such a system are too many and make it not worthwhile, which is why I ditched it. Still would be funny imagining a scrawny mage trying to draw a 200+lbs warbow lol.
 

Wavelength

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@Wavelength No, you're completely right. I see no purpose in stat requirements other than for realism/immersion like you said, which was the driving force behind my initial idea to implement the mechanic.
That is refreshingly honest! :thumbsup-left::):thumbsup-right:

Still would be funny imagining a scrawny mage trying to draw a 200+lbs warbow lol.
Haha, it would... and in some way, weapons inherently account for that. If the attack formula is based on Strength or some similar stat, then the mage isn't going to be all that effective with that huge warbow, whereas a high-STR Orcish Warrior will be deadly with it.
 

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