Steal Mechanics and Rates

Cythera

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Hello! I wanted to start a bit of a discussion and get some opinions on steal mechanics! It's a two-part topic.

Topic One: Do you as a player actually use steal mechanics?
Yes, it's neat. You can get free items from enemies - or even NPCs! But how often do you as a player actually use a game's steal mechanic? And how much value do you put in it? Obviously if all you ever steal are Potions or Common Swords that cost 5 monies at the local merchant, that steal mechanic really doesn't hold much weight. If the steal is a combat-only skill, do you really value using it over using an attack to deal damage? And what will you as a player sacrifice in combat to ensure you get the chance to steal from all the enemies?

Topic Two: Setting the rates
Basically, your opinion on steal rates. I present, a lovely little list of possibilities I thought of:
  • Flat percent rates
  • Flat percent rates according to item value/rarity/tier. So while that potion has an 80% steal chance, that Immortal Sword of Unbreaking has a 5% steal chance
  • Percent rate that improves via: character stats, such as Luck (okay, a little on the nose for that one, but it gives Luck a more visible use to the player?). Or maybe the percentage goes up as enemy health goes down. Or if the enemy is slowed the percentage goes up. Maybe even a new state whose sole purpose is to increase steal rates
  • Equipment that increases a character's chance to steal from enemies
  • Flat percent rates, but character stats influence how many attempts you get per action. Maybe a steal skill that gives more attempts the higher the character's speed stat. Or critical rate. Or even give the number of attempts based on how much faster the character is than the enemy, and enemies that are faster, well, you only get a single attempt to steal from them
  • You could even combine the number of attempts based on X factor, and the percent rate on Y factor, then, does that get too complex and annoying for players? Trying to manage multiple factors and checking stats/states/equipment before deciding it just isn't worth the turn?

I'm curious to hear peoples' opinions on a mechanic that seems to be in so many games, yet really doesn't seem to greatly vary. I want to give steal mechanics a little more attention :wub
 

ATT_Turan

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Topic One: Do you as a player actually use steal mechanics?
I hate them. I use it in games and against specific enemies where there are special, unique items you can only get from stealing, but never otherwise. I mean, I barely ever use potions, why should I care about giving up a turn in combat to steal one?
Topic Two: Setting the rates
Basically, your opinion on steal rates. I present, a lovely little list of possibilities I thought of:
I like having it influenced by stats, so you have some degree of control over it. Opposed Agility (possibly tweaked by Luck) makes sense. I also think it makes sense that enemies that are slowed or stopped are easier to steal from.
 

TheoAllen

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Topic One: Do you as a player actually use steal mechanics?
Short answer, no.

But how often do you as a player actually use a game's steal mechanic?
Because the answer is no, then it's never?

And how much value do you put in it?
If I'm going to reward players with items, I would make the player kill the enemy in a certain way rather than stealing mechanic. For example, killing them with a bow will preserve items than destroying them in the process.

Obviously if all you ever steal are Potions or Common Swords that cost 5 monies at the local merchant, that steal mechanic really doesn't hold much weight.
Combined with my previous answer, a crafting material that requires you to kill an enemy in a certain way would be of much better value than a stealing mechanic.

If the steal is a combat-only skill, do you really value using it over using an attack to deal damage?
I value damage-dealing mechanics. Except if stealing also deals damage.

And what will you as a player sacrifice in combat to ensure you get the chance to steal from all the enemies?
When it disables their skillset/move set while we also gain an item. Then it is probably worth it. Imagine stealing their ammo magazine and they can not use guns anymore. This is also probably also worth it in a long(er) battle, not just a random encounter that dies in 1 ~ 3 turns.

------
About rates:
Flat percent rates
This is fair, probably, but depends on the number and the whole context of the mechanic.

Flat percent rates according to item value/rarity/tier. So while that potion has an 80% steal chance, that Immortal Sword of Unbreaking has a 5% steal chance
This is rage-inducing. Imagine a completionist trying so many times to get that 5% in a frustrating way.

Percent rate that improves via: character stats, such as Luck (okay, a little on the nose for that one, but it gives Luck a more visible use to the player?). Or maybe the percentage goes up as enemy health goes down. Or if the enemy is slowed the percentage goes up. Maybe even a new state whose sole purpose is to increase steal rates
This is better.

Equipment that increases a character's chance to steal from enemies
Basically an extension of the former.

Flat percent rates, but character stats influence how many attempts you get per action. Maybe a steal skill that gives more attempts the higher the character's speed stat. Or critical rate. Or even give the number of attempts based on how much faster the character is than the enemy, and enemies that are faster, well, you only get a single attempt to steal from them
If you make the "attempt" not wasted when it is failed, then it is probably not bad. Imagine you have 5 attempts and all failed, you just waste your time doing it.

You could even combine the number of attempts based on X factor, and the percent rate on Y factor, then, does that get too complex and annoying for players? Trying to manage multiple factors and checking stats/states/equipment before deciding it just isn't worth the turn?
Then make it worthwhile.
What is stopping you from making 100% chance but you can only do it once per battle, or after x turns passed (carried over), or while also making it deliver some damage?
 

Redeye

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1.) Steal skills are fine as long as they're worth using. I expect some enemies to have more interesting things than just generic healing wares and gold. Maybe some enemies possess the key to killing them, like an Ice enemy carrying a Firebomb, or the Poisonous boss carrying an Anti-Poison accessory. It's also not really worth it if the Steal skill just steals things from the enemy's loot table, meaning you can just get those items by simply killing them, so the skill would just be a waste of a turn. Therefore, enemies should contain items that you can ONLY acquire by stealing.

2.) 100% success chance. No less. No sway based on rarity or stats. I'm already spending a turn to use the skill, anything less than 100% success is a waste of time and renders the skill useless.
 

D.L. Yomegami

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Personally, if I had to implement a steal mechanic I'd just make it so the items enemies carry are simply stuff that's an area or two ahead of where the player's actually at. If the player wants to steal stuff, they're rewarded by being stronger than intended, but if they don't they aren't missing anything they can't eventually buy. Furthermore, I'd opt to allow the player to see what the enemy's actually carrying and choose what they want to steal as opposed to leaving it to blind guessing and random chance.

As far as rates go, I'd definitely allow the player to influence it somehow, with increasing a stat like Luck being my preference since that's a reason for the player to buff that stat in battle. Equipment increasing it is my second preference, but that can just as easily raise the stat that increases stealing chances and thus tie into the first. And I also wouldn't be opposed to having more valuable items being harder to steal. -Arg- having a finite number of attempts at stealing, though. Keeping the enemy alive long enough to steal its goodies is enough of a challenge on its own.

With all this being said, I'm really not fond of most stealing mechanics. If all the enemies have is stuff that the player can buy, there's no point to wasting the turn. If enemies (especially bosses) have unique equipment/items, then that basically forces the player to bring the thief character/have somebody with a steal skill/etc. or get screwed out of those items, which sucks if the player would otherwise want to use somebody else, experiment with a different build, etc. I'd rather just have skills/equipment that influence what enemies drop instead. Same end goal of getting valuable stuff without the character select forcing.
 

Milennin

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Oof, it's been a while since I played an RPG with steal mechanics. I do remember occasionally using it when I knew the enemies were weak enough I could do it without getting hurt much, or trying it on bosses to see what I'd get. I'm willing to sacrifice damage for a 100% chance to steal something of value to me, but if the steal skill has a chance to fail and does no or low damage, then I'll just not use it. I choose to use it because I want to get an item, if it fails at giving me that even 1 out of 10 times, I'm done. Wasting a turn on nothing is bad enough in an RPG.
Now, maybe if the steal skill does a decent amount of damage with a chance to fail, I could see it being used as something you give a go to finish off a weakened enemy when you don't need to hit them for a lot of damage. But then the stealing part comes more as a secondary thing.
 

alice_gristle

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My only experience is playing Final Fantasy, and there, I never used Steal. It just felt, well, useless. Locke was the coolest :wub :wub :wub but his special ability was bollocks... Also, if you're gonna make Steal like it was in FF, I'm indifferent to rates as well. I'd rather see:

Steal that works only outside combat. (Combat steal makes no sense after all. Ya gonna kill the guy anyway, you can take all his stuff afterwards.) Like, you can steal stuff from certain NPCs if ya good... and if ya fail, it's the cops for ya! Or repercussions, summat.

Steal that works in combat, but automatically. Like, you have a Steal passive ability equipped, and every round yo thief has a chance to pilfer something - while at the same time being able to deal damage! (Or heal, or whatever.)

Steal that undresses and disarms the enemy! Lieeek... your thief steals the enemy's breastplate, revealing their, umm, chest! And thennn... your thief steals their underwear too! Revealing their !!! Okay, this would be a mechanic for an ero game, but hey, I want it! :biggrin:
 

ScorchedGround

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I am not really a fan of stealing mechanics in general.
You really gotta sell me on that to make me actually use them.




The best implementation of steal mechanics in my opinion was probably way back with
Final Fantasy Tactics for the Gameboy Advance.

The game had a designated "Thief" class whose sole purpose was to steal stuff from enemies.
They could learn skills to basically steal anything.

They could steal money, equipment and even experience points as well as skills from enemies.

Now the most interesting target for stealing was equipment. Since enemies were equipped with stuff just like your characters were, you could often steal useful stuff for your team.

More importantly, many "main story enemies" often wore rare equipment that you could not find usually or buy at a shop. So the best way to gather good equipment was to actually steal it.

As for the stealing mechanic itself, it basically works like any other skill in the game.
You have a base chance of success which is increased if you attack from the side or even more so if from behind.

Additionally, you could equip your thief with a special glove that increases your chance of stealing.

If you attempted to steal stuff from behind with these gloves, it would be a 100% success rate most of the time.




Since then, I haven't really seen any steal mechanics that appealed to me.
Most of them fit in either of these categories:

#1 The probability of stealing an item was high, but you only get junk out of it.

#2 The probability of stealing an item was frustratingly low, but atleast the payout was good

#3 The probability of stealing an item was okay-ish, but the chance to get a rare item was slim

Now, the game I talked about earlier fits in none these categories, since:

- You can actively affect the success chance, up to a certain 100% even.
--> In the game you can even see beforehand how high the successrate is

- You know what you are attempting to steal; If you use "Steal: Weapon" and you succeed, you know what you're getting
--> You could examine every enemy beforehand and look at their equipment
--> Which means, if you're getting junk, it's your own fault because you could've known better
--> You can actively seek out rare items and steal them
 
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Milennin

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That post reminds me of Thieves from Fire Emblem, who could steal equipment or rare/expensive upgrade materials from enemies holding lootable items (could check enemies beforehand to know if it was worth going for). Since weapons had durability and resources were always scarce and limited, stealing was super useful.
The risk with stealing was getting your fragile Thief up close to potentially a strong enemy, or a group. And of course, if your unit died, they were gone for good, so you had to be careful too.
 

Aesica

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How often do you as a player actually use a game's steal mechanic?
Depends on the game as well as the reward. If it yields dumb stuff like potions in a game that doesn't really need them, or if the game buries you in post-battle drops, then no, why bother? In a game like FFT though, where you can walk away with some pretty nice stuff, then yup absolutely.


What will you as a player sacrifice in combat to ensure you get the chance to steal from all the enemies?
Time and effort, ultimately. If it's less time/effort to steal something from random enemies than it is to farm the resources to buy or (gag) craft them, then it's worth doing. Otherwise, nope, not gonna bother.

Topic Two: Setting the rates
Basically, your opinion on steal rates. I present, a lovely little list of possibilities I thought of:
  • Flat percent rates
  • Flat percent rates according to item value/rarity/tier. So while that potion has an 80% steal chance, that Immortal Sword of Unbreaking has a 5% steal chance
  • Percent rate that improves via: character stats, such as Luck (okay, a little on the nose for that one, but it gives Luck a more visible use to the player?). Or maybe the percentage goes up as enemy health goes down. Or if the enemy is slowed the percentage goes up. Maybe even a new state whose sole purpose is to increase steal rates
  • Equipment that increases a character's chance to steal from enemies
  • Flat percent rates, but character stats influence how many attempts you get per action. Maybe a steal skill that gives more attempts the higher the character's speed stat. Or critical rate. Or even give the number of attempts based on how much faster the character is than the enemy, and enemies that are faster, well, you only get a single attempt to steal from them
  • You could even combine the number of attempts based on X factor, and the percent rate on Y factor, then, does that get too complex and annoying for players? Trying to manage multiple factors and checking stats/states/equipment before deciding it just isn't worth the turn?
Steal rates are mostly annoyances, because it's not very interesting gameplay to spam steal for every turn for 50+ turns just to get the ultra-rare item from a once-only boss. I'll probably implement stealing in my game like so:
  1. Each item in an opponent's stealable inventory has a difficulty rating unique to that opponent.
  2. Player's skill rating for steal is based on level.
  3. This skill rating is modified by player speed vs enemy speed
  4. If the player's skill rating is higher than the difficulty rating, they get the item 100% of the time Otherwise, no can do.
  5. Incapacitated enemies can be stolen from 100% of the time.
"So if the player's skill rating isn't high enough, they don't get the item? What about a boss with a unique item the player can't steal from because of that?"

I have a junk-scavenging minigame that lets players get any item that would otherwise be missable if they missed it.
 

Wavelength

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I can't think of a game where I've ever engaged a lot with Steal moves before the postgame, and it's unfortunate because in theory, the combination of "pretend to be a thief" plus "get cool stuff for free" should be really fun!

In practice, though, Steal moves in combat usually just feel like something that's both exogenous from normal combat tactics, and also inferior to combat - you squander a turn to choose a specific skill (instead of an interesting decision between many combat moves), and the RNG either puts something in your inventory or it doesn't. In many games, the rate is low enough (for anything worth stealing) that you often have to sit there for 5-10 turns at the end of a decided battle, having your other party members do nothing while the Rogue character keeps rolling on the RNG. Once you get it, your enemy doesn't even care - it's more like an item just spawned in your inventory. "Boring" is a massive understatement!

While some people above have said they don't mind this mechanic as long as what you get is interesting/valuable/unique enough, for me this actually makes the mechanic even worse - this makes me feel compelled to sit there and keep trying the boring Steal action forever until it works, because there's a chance the item might be interesting and impossible to find elsewhere. So now it feels like a mandatory grind instead of being an optional move I can happily ignore.

Some games (mid-generation Final Fantasy games come to mind, and Tales of Symphonia's "Item Thief" skill was one of the cooler ones) have "Mug" moves that both deal damage and have a chance to steal an item. I tend to use these a lot more than non-damaging Steal moves, because it doesn't feel like I'm utterly wasting a turn to use it. However, to compensate for the chance to steal an item, these moves are usually weaker than the character's other damage moves, or lack other important utility, so it still feels pretty bad whenever you use the skill and get nothing.

While I don't see it a lot in games, I think a "Passive" that allows characters a chance to steal an item while attacking is a pretty good system. Now you no longer have to go out of your way for the mere chance of a Steal, and it still feels just as good when you filch something cool. This was a passive you could add onto weapons in Dark Cloud 2 and I liked it there, but I think it would be even greater as a passive talent for a Thief character in general.

Nippon Ichi deserves a special mention, as many of its games allow you to actually steal enemies' equipment - which not only gives you that equipment permanently (particular nifty because these games usually have an ocean of different equips, sometimes individually instanced with slightly different stats), but also lowers the stats of the monster you pilfered it from accordingly! This transforms the Steal move from an exogenous grind to get an item, into a tactical and thoughtful way to literally steal the advantage away from your opponent in battle! However, these Steal moves are still RNG-based, and stealing anything that can actually turn the tide of battle usually comes with a single-digit percentage of success (unless you're so overleveled that you could have just one-shot the enemy anyway), so it feels like missed potential more than a resoundingly great mechanic.

===

So, how would I design a better "Steal" mechanic for a Turn-Based game? I'd simply run the RNG calculations BEFORE the turn starts!! This sounds a little wacky, but I think it would actually make Stealing into a far more satisfying experience. Whenever a character with a Steal move is in the battle party, an RNG roll is made for each enemy (it could be based on things like comparative AGI with the Stealer, or it could just be purely random) before actions are chosen. If the roll succeeds, a GUI icon is displayed on that enemy to let you know the Steal move can be used on them this turn (diegetically, it means the character can see that enemy is "sufficiently distracted"). If the roll fails, no icon is displayed and the enemy can't be selected as a Steal target this turn.

This way, while being able to steal an item/equip is still a lucky event, the character is never wasting a turn to use the Steal action and get nothing in return - you see the icon, you know you have the opportunity this turn and then it's just a decision whether you can afford to spend an action in the middle of combat to nab the enemy's stuff.

With such a mechanic in place, I think the actual rates could be made very low without getting frustrating - something like 3-5% per enemy per turn (meaning that you might get the opportunity once per 2-3 mobs, and about once against an average boss) - and therefore, the stuff you filch could be valuable enough to feel really satisfying without breaking the balance of the game.

There could still be an issue with stalling the end of a clearly-decided battle to wait for the Steal opportunity to pop up; the way I'd correct for this is to simply give it a 0% chance to succeed on any turn where your party did no damage to the enemies last turn.
 

Aesica

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Steal that undresses and disarms the enemy! Lieeek... your thief steals the enemy's breastplate, revealing their, umm, chest! And thennn... your thief steals their underwear too! Revealing their !!! Okay, this would be a mechanic for an ero game, but hey, I want it! :biggrin:
It's not necessarily just an ero game mechanic. It's a big part of Locke's scenario branch in Final Fantasy 6.

1620848473399.png
 

Cythera

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I'm really loving all these opinions! The general consensus appears to be RNG = bad haha, especially if it's unknown to the player, and they're just blinding rolling the dice.
If a game had a skill that allowed you to view the potential steals from an enemy, would that better encourage you to use a steal mechanic? Such a skill wouldn't use a character turn, of course. I think it would help players better pick targets to steal from. Rather than blindly stealing and getting items they really don't need or want, they could scope out the enemies and find the ones that drop the items they actually are looking for.
 

Maliki79

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I use steal in my game. It's a major component to some stratgies!

For example, one of the early quests is to get materials to craft a plot related item. These materials can only be found by fighting one enemy. That enemy has 3 ways of giving the item: 1. A 10% chance to drop 1 on death. 2. A 100% chance to drop if killed with a particular element. And 3. A chance to steal up to 4 of them in addition to the first 2 methods.
For context, you'll need 20 of the item.

Stealing rates can be influenced by several things: the skill weapon's level. Wearing light gear and using different status effects like blind or charm.

Now beyond scenarios like the above, I intend to make stealing useful due to the nature of my game to have a limited amount of max healing items. So if an enemy has a potion where you can only carry 10, stealing might make for a way to circumvent that number a bit.

There are other things that are tied to stealing in my game but long story short, you get out what you put in.
 

Jrrkein

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Topic One: Do you as a player actually use steal mechanics?
I do use steal mechanic, I often use to nab free recoveries/money from enemy often enemy have high-end gear or better items and whatever that RNG kinda in your favor on which can be steal first, then again steal is only a battle skill and not tailored for outside use.

Topic Two: Setting the rates
  • Basic recoveries or resources (crafting): Probably mid-high rate
  • Standard equipment: Low-Mid rate
  • Good Equipment: Low
  • Better healing items or crafting materials: Low Rate to Mid Rate
  • Epic gears: Very low rate
I often add a gear that increases odd or a skill that increases the odd, but cost really more. Then again if I want to steal more while getting hit
 

Trihan

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I think Final Fantasy 9 did the steal mechanic well, helped along by the fact that the main character was a thief. You can steal consumables from regular enemies, which frees up your shop gold for other things, and bosses have stealable equipment which is powerful for where you are but you'll be able to buy/synthesise it a little ways on anyway.

It basically becomes a question of whether you want the thing now for a bit of extra power and a smoother ride through the next area, or whether you're happy taking what the game gives you and slogging through until you can get the equipment normally.
 

Basileus

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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Final Fantasy X. Rikku combines the Thief class (the class that specializes in obtaining items) with the Chemist class (the class that specializes in using items). Rikku's "Steal" command has a high chance to get an item, and can instantly kill robot enemies by taking critical parts. Her "Use" command lets her use the items she takes to heal, deal damage, apply buffs/debuffs - it basically gives her a huge spell list that works on an ammo system and you get more ammo by stealing it. Her Overdrive / Limit Break is "Mix" which allows her to combine two of the items she steals to produce a powerful new effect.

Dragon Quest XI uses more traditional stealing to get extra healing items, crafting materials, and some other rare items. The default "Steal" doesn't do damage, but battles go by quickly anyway so you can probably finish off most monsters in a couple turns even if your thief is using his actions to steal items. There is at least 1 damaging version of steal that you get early on through the dual-tech abilities in "Pep" mode, but it isn't available as often. The stealing rate is based on the Deftness stat, which gives a reason to build your thief differently from other party members.

Overall, I use stealing pretty often as long as I don't miss constantly when I try to use it. I think it's boring if everything is just "attack>attack>heal>attack" so I like being given other abilities/classes to use in combat. If the player feels crippled by using even a single turn on anything but damage, then I'd consider that a problem with the combat system. Maybe stealing works better in fights that don't take forever and make the player want to end them faster, or maybe only certain players will ever like stealing. It's probably best left optional just in case, but I personally enjoy seeing it.
 
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CraneSoft

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Topic One: Do you as a player actually use steal mechanics?
Depends if they are really needed. What can I benefit from the steal? If it's just common items, you can bet I am never using it ever again. If steal actually does something else (like Rikku's steal in FFX that can instantly kill machines or open treasure chests in battles) or allows me to actually get unique stuff, I'll happily use them. In the end, steal is just a means to an end, I am not stealing because I like the mechanic, but what they can offer.

Topic Two: Setting the rates

100%. No less. I am not interested in spending more than 2 turns trying to steal something especially if I don't know if they are worth my time, when I can just kill the enemies/bosses and move on.

I think Final Fantasy 9 did the steal mechanic well, helped along by the fact that the main character was a thief. You can steal consumables from regular enemies, which frees up your shop gold for other things, and bosses have stealable equipment which is powerful for where you are but you'll be able to buy/synthesise it a little ways on anyway.
Final Fantasy 9 has the worst steal mechanics I ever experienced in an RPG for one exact reason: the obnoxious steal rates. You fail to mention that the chance to actually steal powerful equipment from bosses are astronomically low - are you one of the players that want those equips before they are available in shops? Congratulations - you just condemned yourself to experience every boss as a giant sloth-fest where 90% of the battle is spent trying to steal from them and failing.
While 9 is one of the FF games where steal is actually useful, it doesn't create the best playing experience for people that decide to take advantage of it, which IMO defeats the purpose of having such a mechanic in the first place.

Now, for the rest of the points in topic two: you can make complicated formulas behind the rules of stealing to ease it somehow, but you'll need to ask yourself, is stealing so significant in your game that you have to put so much work and thought into it and what do you achieve by making players jump through hoops for the process? If a player wants something, they are going to get it no matter how hard it is (as long as it's not statistically impossible), so save them and yourself some frustration and let players get they want if they bothered to use the steal command.
 
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Trihan

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Topic One: Do you as a player actually use steal mechanics?
Depends if they are really needed. What can I benefit from the steal? If it's just common items, you can bet I am never using it ever again. If steal actually does something else (like Rikku's steal in FFX that can instantly kill machines or open treasure chests in battles) or allows me to actually get unique stuff, I'll happily use them. In the end, steal is just a means to an end, I am not stealing because I like the mechanic, but what they can offer.

Topic Two: Setting the rates

100%. No less. I am not interested in spending more than 2 turns trying to steal something especially if I don't know if they are worth my time, when I can just kill the enemies/bosses and move on.


Final Fantasy 9 has the worst steal mechanics I ever experienced in an RPG for one exact reason: the obnoxious steal rates. You fail to mention that the chance to actually steal powerful equipment from bosses are astronomically low - are you one of the players that want those equips before they are available in shops? Congratulations - you just condemned yourself to experience every boss as a giant sloth-fest where 90% of the battle is spent trying to steal from them and failing.
While 9 is one of the FF games where steal is actually useful, it doesn't create the best playing experience for people that decide to take advantage of it, which IMO defeats the purpose of having such a mechanic in the first place.

Now, for the rest of the points in topic two: you can make complicated formulas behind the rules of stealing to ease it somehow, but you'll need to ask yourself, is stealing so significant in your game that you have to put so much work and thought into it and what do you achieve by making players jump through hoops for the process? If a player wants something, they are going to get it no matter how hard it is (as long as it's not statistically impossible), so save them and yourself some frustration and let players get they want if they bothered to use the steal command.
Interestingly, what made it the worst for you made it worth using for me. Yes, the success rate is low for powerful items, but that's because they're *powerful*. If the steal rate was 100%, you might as well just be given the stealable item as a boss drop at the end because there is no real difference in the number of turns taken.

It's an option, really. You can either expend more turns trying to get something better, or just leave it and buy the thing when it's available in shops. I never had an issue with that.
 

Wavelength

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For anyone who champions a 100% steal rate (and I do share in your hatred of success-or-failure RNG rolls!), how do you make the things you Steal significant enough to be worth the slight annoyance of prolonging combat to obtain, while also ensuring your game's combat and economy are well-balanced whether or not the player decides to steal the equips/consumables from each enemy?

This was the major issue I was thinking about for hours when I responded last week; I'm kind of happy with my "low RNG chance to enable the Steal action against an enemy; 100% chance to steal once enabled" solution, but honestly I can't think of too many more ways that a 100% steal chance would work well in practice!

A few other ways I can personally think of to maybe make a 100% steal chance work:
  • Entire combat system built around Stealing stuff and using the stuff you steal
  • Mechanic that requires skillful play to steal (such as an action battle system where you can only use a Steal action on an enemy that hasn't noticed you yet)
  • The Steal action requires a Resource that is built up by your other actions (such as a Stealth resource that is earned by killing enemies or accumulated by using consumable items)
These are somewhat unique and specific ways to design it, so I'm interested whether anyone has found success designing something that offers a 100% steal rate, interesting/useful steals, and good game balance regardless of players' choice to Steal from each enemy they encounter.
 

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