Still in love with RPG Maker XP...

Discussion in 'Useful Development Tools' started by Endafy, Jun 2, 2014.

  1. Endafy

    Endafy Villager Member

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    RPG Maker VX Ace came out with everyone unanimously loving it. I, however, find it annoying to use. Sure it has a lot of shortcuts which make certain things easier, but I still find it to be just not as good.

    XP Pros over VX Ace

    Mapping in XP

    Scripting in XP

    Uses less system resources

    Works better on Windows XP

    Supports Windows 98SE, ME, 2000, XP

    Works better in Wine HQ for Linux (no sound but there are workarounds for Wine)

    Better RTP (I admit nobody uses RTP anyway...)

    Better mapping

    more scripts

    Better and more resolutions like 1024x768 and 1080p via scripts. Most I have seen VX Ace get to is 640x480

    Animation is 30 FPS instead of 15. VX Ace engine defaults to 60 FPS then upscales animations which are only 15FPS this 60/15 glitches out in 640x480 unless yanfly core is used to up it to 60. XP is 30/30 across the board and a script allows for 60FPS on XP 60/60

    H-Mode7 for true 3D support, VX Ace only does flat Mode7 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO_GZzrdE9Y

    RPG Maker XP uses true Ruby scripting and there are scripts which make games smoother and on par if not better than VX Ace

    VX (non-ace) works almost perfectly on Wine HQ though incidentally but VX Ace just crashes...

    VX Ace Pros over XP

    OGG Vorbis support out of the box

    Movie support re-introduced from 2k3 out of the box

    vehicles out of the box

    chests and other shortcuts out of the box

    More organization but unneeded mostly for anyone who has spent more than a month inside the editor.

    Things I kind of dislike about VX Ace:

    sample maps? I mean I get the need for newbies but if I want to play on sample maps I can

    character generator, but almost useless when you want to create other animations... and those creepy eyes staring into your soul... couldn't they make the pictures stare off to the right.... stuff of nightmares man. I find the pictures take away from the game rather than add to it.

    forcing me to use parallax mapping

    Charges me for additional map and chipsets??? Give me a break!

    Chibi Chibi Chibi!!! I HATE CHIBI!

    Don't get me wrong I am not bashing VX Ace, it is a great game creator! It just feels constricting. I like all the additions to the basic editor, but they all can be added to XP via scripts for half the price now. I feel very let down by the editor

    While there is a Character Generator in VX Ace, Game Character HUB, or Gimp makes it almost entirely pointless. Best $15 bucks I spent.

    Your thoughts? Do you prefer VX Ace for some reason I am not getting here? I own all 4 editors legally, 2k3 Japanese disk via Amazon, XP, VX, and VX Ace. I just miss the entire point of VX Ace.
     
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  2. cremnophobia

    cremnophobia Veteran Veteran

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    There are so many wrong (scripting / scripts) or unimportant (who uses 98, 2k or ME?) points that I don't even know where to begin. I guess you're either trolling or don't have much knowledge/experience.
     
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  3. amerk

    amerk Veteran Member

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    My thoughts are in red. I prefer Ace over XP anyday.
     
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  4. Endafy

    Endafy Villager Member

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    Well said :) way to keep it fun and entertaining while not getting personal :)

    Games made in XP use around 32MB~48MB of Ram, VX Ace runs around 20mb~120MB of ram. Talking about gigabytes sure, but I made an RPG Maker gaming machine specifically for these games. Processing, it takes around 582 dwords for XP, where VX and VXA take around 1192 dwords. While the dwords on VXA are smaller, and the sheer amount of them on stronger processors make it a much smoother experience, on Windows XP (and later 7) with a slower processor XP still out performs VXA game.exe

    VX Ace was created in Qt Creator as was Game Character HUB, all created with and by free software, why they don't just support Linux out of the box is beyond me... XP was created in visual studio 2004. VX was created in .NET and Qt Creator meaning XP is more geared toward Windows.

    While RGSS 3 is better railed in VX Ace, RGSS 1 is true Ruby so it makes scripting a ton easier for people who know Ruby better.

    Let me talk about what I love about VXA now so it doesn't sound pedantic.

    The editor feels cozy, and the shortcuts make some mundane tasks which take a few minutes to set up in XP breezier. Like in XP I generally have a chest and door map. I make the animations work on this macro page I load into every XP game I tend to be working with. I then edit the pages to change what I want in the chest and door etc...

    In VXA there is no need for that.

    I love that there are vehicles, but 2 water vehicles is kind of moot. They should have used a land vehicle, ship, and airship. I might have missed something along the way but I would love the ability to use a land vehicle.

    Lots of newbie help. This editor is the best hands down for anyone looking to get into RPG Maker which to me is a win-win. The more people purchasing and using this, the more we get in return from Enterbrain.

    Weapon and gear parameters! I can make a ton of awesome legendary items and whatnot with absolute ease.

    Resource manager is a TON better.

    Shadowpen - nuff said here... best addition to RPG Maker yet

    Oh and XP doesn't require Steam to be running... this really bugs me.

    I think the pricepoint needs to come down a lot. 30 was a nice pricepoint, 70 is WAY too much.
     
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  5. slimmmeiske2

    slimmmeiske2 Little Red Riding Hood Moderator

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    Ace only requires Steam to run if you bought it on Steam. Buying it here in the shop would have given you a Steam-less version. RMXP is also avaible on Steam btw.

    You need to remember that Ace is the latest engine, while XP is two generations back when you talk about the price difference. When RMXP was still the newest maker, it was also around the 70 pricepoint I believe. Ace used to be even 90 when it first came out, so it has gone down already.

    That said, I prefer XP over Ace, though both have their charms and faults.
     
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  6. Mouser

    Mouser Veteran Veteran

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    Ironically, it's that super low price point that keeps a lot of people from taking the program seriously. If it were priced more competitively at around $199, you'd see more serious people using it, and the average quality of game titles would shoot way up.
     
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  7. Paladin-Cleric of Awesome

    Paladin-Cleric of Awesome Writer Veteran

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    XP will always hold a special place in my heart. It was the first gaming thing I ever found.

    The mapping system is by far superior. If I could squish ace and xp together I'd be very, very happy!
     
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  8. cremnophobia

    cremnophobia Veteran Veteran

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    Seriously, there are a few points where I prefer XP over VX Ace too, but there are so many incorrect facts in your posts which renders this whole discussion useless IMHO. Doesn't that bug anyone else?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 3, 2014
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  9. Sharm

    Sharm Pixel Tile Artist Veteran

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    Why not just point those things out and state the actual facts? (I'm a mod, if I let all the posts with incorrect information get to me I wouldn't have lasted a week.)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 3, 2014
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  10. Fernyfer775

    Fernyfer775 Veteran Veteran

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    I would have to say the only thing I wish ACE had by default was the map creation layer tool that XP did.

    I dislike having to rely on parallaxing or scripts to achieve that same effect.
     
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  11. Endafy

    Endafy Villager Member

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    Higher resolution script

    http://www.gdunlimited.net/forums/topic/7024-custom-resolution/

    System requirements

    XP http://www.rpgmakerweb.com/products/programs/rpg-maker-xp

    VXA http://www.rpgmakerweb.com/products/programs/rpg-maker-vx-ace

    Working better in XP might be because of the 64 bit issue maybe it works better in 7 32 bit? I never tried as I have never seen 7 32 bit in action, so I could be wrong here.

    RPG Maker XP used to support 98SE because I ran it on an older PC a long time ago. The games I made I made them bootable with a dumbed down 98SE disk with drivers and no explorer before I got a cease and desist letter from MS but this is another story :p

    WineHQ Database

    XP http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=5206&iTestingId=15096

    VXA http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=13815

    Better RTP sound music and graphics I guess opinions differ

    mapping same thing

    more scripts just exist for it older or newer I suppose

    30/20 and 60/15 (I was mistaken but changing them both yanfly was able to fix) No links will be provided here, but XP is 30fps/20fps 30 FPS overall, 20FPS animation. VXA is 60 overall FPS and 15 for animation.

    H-Mode7 has been provided

    Ruby scripting has been said over and over, while XP is true Ruby, it is more technical and less handled by game.exe whereas VXA is handled better but shortcuts have been added for "easier" Ruby scripting, shortcuts and all but this adds technical limitations super imposed by game.exe. Finding links would take entirely too long but these facts can be found over and over and it is a discussion beat to death.

    The rest speaks for itself... If you want me to provide further links I can. Nothing I said was untrue except the 32/20 issue I was indeed wrong on this part. I apologize.
     
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  12. Athryl

    Athryl The Reticent Veteran

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    I just picked up XP from the Humble Bundle and am excited to learn my way around it.  I suspect, on no factual basis mind you, I will prefer VXA if for no other reason than it was my first real RPG Maker experience and you know the kind of impression that usually leaves whether it warrants it or not!  Regardless, I am finding the facts and opinions interesting so I know what to look forward to when I have a bit more time to play in XP!

    Edit: Typos
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 3, 2014
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  13. cremnophobia

    cremnophobia Veteran Veteran

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    Except the demand for support of other operating systems, everything is wrong here. Neither .NET (except the old DRM of the international version) nor Qt Creator nor Visual Studio 2004 (which doesn't exist!) was used to write RPG Maker and RGSS.

    Simple: no. BTW, remember the SDK? Hahaha.

    That was already pointed out by another user.

    See above.

    RGSS1 has a frame limit of either 20 or 40 and wait - you can change it? What a problem!

    http://www.rgss-factory.net/2012/10/20/ace-importer-des-cartes-en-h-mode7-issues-de-rmxp/

    Again: no.

    This isn't wrong, but VX and VX Ace don't support such old operating systems for several reasons, including the used software (compiler, Ruby itself) doesn't target it anymore and Unicode support is more complicated (yeah, when English is your main language you don't have to care).

    Or simply no one cares(except you) cares about such archaiv OSs anymore.

    There are some other points (like the more scripts one) which are debatable. Maybe. But there are also more unsupported XP scripts than VX Ace ones because their author doesn't use RPGXP anymore. And VX and VX Ace scripts are much more compatible. Oh, and remember the SDK?
     
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  14. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Villager Member

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    I've never used XP so I can't comment, but what are some examples of something XP can script that VX Ace cannot OP?
     
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  15. jajunk

    jajunk Villager Member

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    For mapping, i prefer XP but well, some features in VXAce is a charm.

    So well... i love both.
     
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  16. Engr. Adiktuzmiko

    Engr. Adiktuzmiko Chemical Engineer, Game Developer, Using BlinkBoy' Veteran

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    Ace uses more system resource - What do you expect??? It does more things I believe on the background as opposed to XP so it's normal... And it's not really even that high when things like Chrome do take more than 200MB of RAM... 

    Higher system requirements - Uhm, it's newer so it's also normal that it needs a bit of upgraded equipment than the old ones

    Also .NET is a windows framework used by a lot of windows programs, so if your claim about the maker being made using .NET, then shouldn't that mean it's more geared towards windows?

    RGSS is easier to use than RGSS3? I beg to disagree as I have experienced using both... 

    XP uses true ruby? 0.0

    $70 too much for it - Do you even know how much other game creation softwares cost? $70 is already a bargain for this wonderful program

    Ace requires steam - Only if you buy the steam version which is actually just around for a few months now, Ace was first released outside of steam and that version is still in stores.

    Forces you to use parallax mapping - 0.0 you don't know your different options do you?

    Charges me for additional map and chipsets - what? If you mean the buyable resources, I don't see what's wrong. If you at least have experienced using other engines, you'd know well that most resources that you'll be using needs to be made by you or you buy it from others. You'd also do that even in XP btw, so I really don't understand that statement of yours

    anyway there were already discussions for this before and there are a lot of valid points in those discussions... while on this one, most are simple runts and false claims...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 18, 2014
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  17. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Villager Member

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    I asked the guy for one simple example to one of his claims that he thought he'd make twice let alone once... Killed the thread dead, pretty sure that is displaying the dubious-o-meter even more than experienced opinions ==.
     
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  18. muramasa

    muramasa Abomination of life, or life itself. Veteran

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    I can't tell for sure all the things that can't be done. But here is one: higher resolutions. VX and VXAce by default scales the image to the window size.

    You can try this code on a blank project (on whichever you like, RGSS, RGSS2 and RGSS3 will handle it fine).

    class Resolution  @getSystemMetrics = Win32API.new('user32', 'GetSystemMetrics', 'I', 'I')  @moveWindow = Win32API.new('user32','MoveWindow',['l','i','i','i','i','l'],'l')  @findWindowEx = Win32API.new('user32','FindWindowEx',['l','l','p','p'],'i')  @window_rect  = Win32API.new('user32', 'GetWindowRect', %w(l p), 'i')   def self.resize(width,height,noMove=false)    window = @findWindowEx.call(0,0,"RGSS Player",0)    screenwidth = @getSystemMetrics.call(0)    screenheight = @getSystemMetrics.call(1)    r = get_coord(window) if noMove==true    x = noMove==false ? (screenwidth - width) / 2 : r[0]    y = noMove==false ? (screenheight - height) / 2 : r[1]    @moveWindow.call(window,x,y,width,height,1)  end  def self.get_coord(hwnd)    rect = [0, 0, 0, 0].pack('l4')    @window_rect.call(hwnd, rect)    #raise rect.unpack('l4').to_s    x, y = rect.unpack('l4')[0..1]    return [x,y]  endend Resolution.resize(1024,768,true) #Or whatever you wish the screen to beOn XP, the window will resize, and leave a nasty black space. But you can freely place sprites there, meaning that you can rewrite, let's say, Tileset, Plane, and others that are restrained to a 640x480 maximum size, and make them work in any resolution.

    On VX Ace, on the other hand, the Graphics module resizes the contents automatically to the window size. It's useful for automatic upscaling, but leaves you restrained to a logical 640x480 maximum resolution.

    (There is, though, a little hack to the RGSS3 DLL to make Graphics.resize accept higher window sizes, but you know, dissassembling is evil -?-).

    EDIT: Other than that, I suppose you can ditch the editor xD, and make a tilemap editor by yourself. I did something like that, but instead of an editor, it uses a 1bit BMP (was the easier to parse) to define the passable areas. Lacks some features but here it is (I was planning to use it on my contest game, but it's the end of the semester so I can't do anything xD). License CC-0.

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13006190/OZ%27s%20PM.7z

    If the mountain doesn't go to Mohammed, Mohammed goes to the mountain. Wait, wasn't it the other way around?
     
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  19. Helladen

    Helladen Deviant Designer Veteran

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    Not entirely true, RPG Maker XP back in its early days had a lot more talent. The problem is that Enterbrain has made the program widespread and known by everyone. The price does set a turning point for developers who are not serious, but it does not mean that they will make a good game even if they are serious. Sometimes, people think they are serious, but are unaware of their own skill and ultimately fail/give up.

    Let's also not forget that RPG Maker has cut out a lot of cool tile functionality from RPG Maker XP, which allowed games to be more creative. RPG Maker VX ACE is better, but the tile engine really does hurt the overall creativity that you can work with for starters. Most people are not master artists like Lunarea/Celianna who can make even the worst map editor create beautiful maps.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 19, 2014
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  20. Endafy

    Endafy Villager Member

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    That script is quite amazing!!!! Thank you!
     
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