Dungeonmind

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Personally, I find it very concerning we don't have an update for MV yet It's been close to 5 months I think I would have to go back to really old emails to get exact dates... I mean is this how it's going to be? Once you have a new game engine the rest don't matter? I have contacted rm support with my issues. (They haven't been helpful at all.) All they can say is move my game to rpg maker mz which is simply unreasonable to ask me to do. I can't pack up and move a whole custom battle system. It ain't happening it would be a nightmare for us devs.

I guess I'm just wondering are we even going to get a fix for MV like MZ has been getting? MZ has been getting fixes for the same bugs MV has had for a while and MV users do not have a single fix or alternative yet. Some of us pour thousands of dollars into our projects and so this is a big deal for us.

MV no longer works on Mac. MV is still advertised that it works on Mac but it doesn't in fact work it completely crashes without warning. Also, rpg maker iPhone apps do not even work on iPhone anymore due to the outdatedness of the engine. It's not uncommon thing for game engines needing updates to make sure they still work correctly and as advertised. In this case this doesn't look like its going to happen for people that have chose the rpg maker engine to make their games with.

Like do we have to worry about this same thing happening down the line with our projects in MZ?

This is a very legitimate question and a fair one to ask IMO.
 
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bgillisp

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Sadly I doubt it will get an update. ACE stopped getting updates when MV came out. Its normal for the older engine to stop getting updates when a newer engine comes out.

As for Macs, a lot of that issue is Apple and Microsoft are in a pissing contest with each other, and users are in the middle. Apple wants you to make things on Apple products again and doesn't care about windows users anymore, which is sadly putting all users in the middle. It might not be possible to make things work on Mac anymore that stopped working due to how Apple is changing the code, as Apple specifically depreciated Open GL, which MV needs to run. Fixing that might require a total overhaul of MV, and would break plug-ins as a result.
 

Dungeonmind

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As for Macs, a lot of that issue is Apple and Microsoft are in a pissing contest with each other, and users are in the middle. Apple wants you to make things on Apple products again and doesn't care about windows users anymore, which is sadly putting all users in the middle. It might not be possible to make things work on Mac anymore that stopped working due to how Apple is changing the code, as Apple specifically depreciated Open GL, which MV needs to run. Fixing that might require a total overhaul of MV, and would break plug-ins as a result.

Honestly though this isn't our problem. It's not our fault this happened. I don't know of one company who does this to their customer base. Makes it our problem, when it's not supposed to be our problem. We bought the software so we can release games to BOTH WINDOWS & MacOS. At this point I don't even care about mobile because my game is too demanding for mobile anyways.

But it is advertised to export to Mac OS and not in a little way. There is a whole spot claiming how great it is to finally have Mac Support for the rpg maker engine and we really haven't had support for Mac at all.

I guess I'm just asking for them to say they are not going to fix it and you know remove this advertising because its very misleading now. If your going to continue to sell rpg maker mv to people you can at least be honest and say it doesn't work on Mac.

Again this sucks for people that have games made OR already released in MV but at least the new guys won't go through this (what I like to call) Developer's Hell. And yes you read that correctly anybody who has released a game in the past with RPG MAKER MV this will now affect their reputation as well because those users are told by us that Mac is supported. Better yet what happens when they go turn on a game continue where they left off in a commercial game made with MV and the very first second they got a flash of red splashed into there faces and it is clear it no longer works on macOS... What then?

In my eyes if you want to be a successful indie studio your probably going to offer refunds to all your Mac Customers.
 
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Aceinfurno

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@Dungeonmind This legit has my curious and a little concerned... Like if Microsoft also makes changes down the road that makes it so RMMV is no longer compatible and won't run without updates/overhauls, would that mean MV and all projects made with it die?
 

orochi2k

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:kaoswt2:Some of my most fanatic players are using wine or even virtual machines on Mac to play my RMXP game which only has native Windows support.

Official updates or not. There will be solutions just like there will always be problems.
And those problems are there, it does not matter whose problems they are.
Personally, I'd be more interested in solutions.

Not sure about RMMV. But, all the old engines are officially abandoned on Mar. 31. I will not count a miracle among possible solutions. Thus, I have been supporting the development of a few customized RGSS executables as backup plans for quite a while. (such as RGD.)

All software will eventually die if its evolution stops. That's why I keep updating mine.
 

Dungeonmind

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This legit has my curious and a little concerned... Like if Microsoft also makes changes down the road that makes it so RMMV is no longer compatible and won't run without updates/overhauls, would that mean MV and all projects made with it die?

Absolutely. And just so you know other game engine publishers/developers don't do this and it isn't the norm. If a game engine no longer is supported it is removed entirely but this is simply not the case with MV and Ace. If there is issues exporting to supported platforms, 99% of the time they get fixed, generally.
 
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TheouAegis

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Well, that's how Degica do thing. They throw out incomplete products, and if it ever get new big update? It will be made into another product for you to spend your money again
 

Dungeonmind

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There is a way to fix this, otherwise my game wouldn't have drastically improved its playability when I updated the nwjs manually. It actually does work better but not acceptable to customers of our games yet... It's just we need rm dev team to actually make it compatible because right now its not and thats basically the only thing we need fixed. If the nwjs is updated correctly and by the developers then RMMV games can run in a 64bit environment actually because the nwjs will be an updated 64 bit version.

This is not impossible to fix if they can just work with us.

Like just by using an updated nwjs manually the game works again without red screen of death for a decent period of time. The problem is we can't make the engine understand we are using an updated 64 bit version of the program so during export it does not apply a lot of my fixes so I have figured out and then we see the red screen of death again.

I can probably make the export compatible manually but what I really can't fix is the graphics just going out black after playing for some time and you still can hear the music and you can still apparently play the game with a black screen... If this were to be fixed, then its already done! MV would be fixed/updated.

A compromise would be to help us get support back for MacOS computers and forget mobile because at the end of the day not having support for Mac while claiming it for so long is what's hurting us. That and most have issues anyways exporting to mobile unrelated to the rpg maker engine at all so it doesnt matter if you fix mobile anyways. Not many rm apps on IOS so it really wouldn't matter as much as this does. IMO
 
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bgillisp

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Actually many companies abandon the old engine when a new one comes out. At some point you have to shelve it, otherwise they would have to go to a subscription model instead.

And software often stops working on newer systems. When Windows 95 came out DOS programs eventually stopped working, and not a single company gave a refund for that. If you were making for DOS when it happened it was hurry up and get it out and hope it lasts, or switch. Those were the options. And yes those who released a DOS game in 1997/1998 it sucked for you as a result. But no one gave refunds on programs for making DOS games when DOS no longer was around or no longer worked directly without emulators and other stuff.

I don't know why you expect Degica do to things no other software company in history has done to date.

Edit: As for the 64 bit NWJS you are asking for a total rewrite of the code from what I understand, as it is THAT deep into the code from what I hear (I don't program JS so my info is like 3rd hand, so take it for what it is worth). I doubt it is going to happen.
 

Nolonar

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@Dungeonmind This legit has my curious and a little concerned... Like if Microsoft also makes changes down the road that makes it so RMMV is no longer compatible and won't run without updates/overhauls, would that mean MV and all projects made with it die?
Sadly happens more often than you think.

Most games designed for Windows XP or older are no longer playable on Windows 10 without some form of emulation, virtualization, or (fan) patch. If you want to relive your nostalgia, you're better off buying games from GoG.

A few years back, I bought Command & Conquer: The Last Decade on EA's Origin Store, and the results were awful:
  • Tiberian Sun: Doesn't work without a fan patch, and The Last Decade doesn't ship with it. Besides, EA has given the game away for free, so there's no reason to buy The Last Decade for it.
  • Red Alert 2: I spent hours getting the game to work, only for the DRM to kill all my units after 1 minute of play. The bloody DRM, on a legitimate copy bought from EA's very own digital store...
  • Renegade: I spent hours getting the game to not crash after the intro video, never succeeded.
I didn't even bother with the rest of the games and asked for a refund on the very same day I bought the game.



This is why game developers usually specify a version number (like: Windows XP, 7, 8.x), because new OS versions can absolutely break compatibility for any number of reasons.
 

Htlaets

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So, first: the RPG Maker MV not working for mac problem is solvable if it's the problem I think (if it's a "the editor doesn't work" problem, then I dunno, since I don't have a mac, but I have had testers using mac that this works for). You can get RPG maker mv games working for mac by using this plugin:
It gets around the save problem by changing the save folder location. It annoys me that that problem has existed for years and was never fixed from what I understand.

And, yeah, it'd be nice if the basic editor fixes for MZ were ported to MV. At this point I'm just swapping my data files from my MV projects to MZ projects back and forth just for QOL editor improvements (One of my projects don't boot in MZ, the other does and mostly plays fine if I replace the core.json). What annoys me is that several of those improvements were added to MV trinity and were never brought up to MV PC.
 

Dungeonmind

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I don't know why you expect Degica do to things no other software company in history has done to date.

Actually, I'm pretty sure your wrong here. Unreal engine didn't just tell their users one day that's it and all their games made in the past with their older game engine can no longer work on the targeted and supported platform because that is just ludicrous to even think that... Lol (I am aware that game engines get discontinued, this is not just what I'm talking about here.)

I don't know a single game engine thats done this?(And I don't need to look on google to know this.) Because this is affecting games already currently made with rpg maker mv. This doesn't happen with other game engines, the results would be catastrophic for that game engine/software developer/publisher.

And to be honest I am not posting this topic to fight about this cause I don't care about who's right and who's wrong, what I care about is my reputation as a developer and that now my users I have been telling for the past 2 years that have Macs can't play the game now after they have been following my blog and my social media accounts throughout the whole time of development. This doesn't sit well with me and there is no amount of convincing or excuses you can say or come up with to change my opinion on this matter. I think a lot of other users would agree here but quite possibly are afraid to say anything like I have been, this entire time.
 
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bgillisp

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Unreal is constant updates. And if you wanted to use Unreal 1.0 still they would just be like tough, upgrade. And if they did Unreal X then went to a new Unreal Z, Unreal X at some point would be discontinued and would stop working.

As it is I can name game engines that no longer work too. I know two off the top of my head that are just discontinued and you can get and play around with for legacy reasons, but that's it.

But I have asked for staff to weigh in and see if we can get some official answers. I only know what I see and read like 4th hand.
 

The Row

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To be fair, there is such a thing as false advertising, if there is sale material stating: MacOS supported, then MacOS should be supported. No question asked, but since it isn't...

Is MV still advertised as having support for MacOS?
Is it still sold as having support for MacOS?

If it is, you could always go the legal way.

For some reason the legal way always seem to get things to "suddenly" be either done or doable very quickly... strange that.


Then again, to play devils advocado... MacOS supported? What version of MacOS? I had an old mac back in the 90's, that ran a MacOS, supported a whooping 256 colours, came with suffle puck cafe, the coloured version...
I doubt it would work on that one...
 

Htlaets

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To be fair, there is such a thing as false advertising, if there is sale material stating: MacOS supported, then MacOS should be supported. No question asked, but since it isn't...

Is MV still advertised as having support for MacOS?
Is it still sold as having support for MacOS?

If it is, you could always go the legal way.

For some reason the legal way always seem to get things to "suddenly" be either done or doable very quickly... strange that.


Then again, to play devils advocado... MacOS supported? What version of MacOS? I had an old mac back in the 90's, that ran a MacOS, supported a whooping 256 colours, came with suffle puck cafe, the coloured version...
I doubt it would work on that one...
In this particular case, it's a product that's still being sold and put on sale with DLC released for it, so there's probably a reasonable case for false advertisement (Not a lawyer, but lawyers are usually hired to make language precise to protect from lawsuits). Not that I'd want them to be sued, but if the most recent macs are not supported and they're still keeping this as part of their current product line up, they should specify what that means and not advertise compatibility with macos without a huge asterisk.
 

Shaz

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I was under the impression right from the release of MV, that if you want to deploy to Mac, you have to deploy using the Mac version, ON a Mac. The Windows version of MV would not deploy to Mac. Did that change at some point?
 

ATT_Turan

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what I care about is my reputation as a developer and that now my users I have been telling for the past 2 years that have Macs can't play the game now after they have been following my blog and my social media accounts throughout the whole time of development.
Well, this is the unfortunate situation of you being a sort of middle man, producing software that you didn't code entirely on your own. All you can do (unless you figure out how to rewrite things on your own) is say what every other video game company does in their system requirements section. List it as supported up to Mac OS 10.whatever (or whatever it does actually work on).

As you've already read above, this is actually quite typical for computer games. They'll be released, listing what operating systems they're compatible with, and usually get updates within a certain life cycle, but beyond that, well, it's up to the users to use it on older software or figure out how to make it work.

I own games that won't work on Windows 10 without configuring special compatibility settings or even installing software for it to run inside of. And, sadly, Apple is just plain worse about this, which is one reason that you don't see a lot of publishers going out of their way to make their games work on Mac.
I was under the impression right from the release of MV, that if you want to deploy to Mac, you have to deploy using the Mac version, ON a Mac. The Windows version of MV would not deploy to Mac. Did that change at some point?
I haven't done it, but my understanding from various threads I've read is that it does work, but requires certain things like not compressing the project files and specifying the game directory to be an executable on the Mac computer.
 

Htlaets

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I was under the impression right from the release of MV, that if you want to deploy to Mac, you have to deploy using the Mac version, ON a Mac. The Windows version of MV would not deploy to Mac. Did that change at some point?
I've done it. It's been messed up all along, but you could get around it by using the plug-in I linked above or other methods.
 

Archeia

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We have yet to get an explanation from KADOKAWA/GGG and we're waiting for their update.

HOWEVER, I would like to point out because it has been bothering me.

Other game engines, Unreal and Unity are constantly updating their software and have various version control the same as rpgmaker. They are also subscription or royalty based. RPG Maker ONLY CHARGES YOU ONCE at a cheaper price than the other game engines and doesn't take royalties!

Please let that sink in and compare that to the ToS of other game engines before throwing some comparisons as if Unity/Unreal has the same business model.

RPG Maker has always been a software that once a new one comes out, everything becomes legacy mode. As has always been the case since RPG Maker 95. RPG Maker 2000-VXA is still in the store and doesn't get updates either. AND VXA does still release DLCs if someone wants to add to it. The older versions exists because people want them for their RTPs too and collection.

RMMV DID work on Mac until Apple did some insane no longer supporting 32 bit software and some sweeping changes at the end of its lifespan. Focusing on MV when MZ is out on RM's business model seems insane!

Especially when RMMV kept the software relatively open specifically for developers that don't want to upgrade so you won't be dead on the water to be able to do something in the event big corporations like Apple does this. You CAN update Nodejs/NWjs of your project that finally works on Apple and work with a programmer. It is not RPG Maker's fault that Apple did something insane that most software stopped working on their OS, not just RPGMaker. A lot of developers don't get support from Unity or Unreal officially when doing OS ports for their games especially if they are using an outdated version that you still can select btw and make games with. Just don't expect OFFICIAL support from them. Yes the ToS for royalties still apply on those older versions.

That being said, the situation with Apple is still shaky. Unless Nodejs/Nwjs does finalize a perfect fix (e.g. dev tools not working, other html5 game engines needing full reinstall to work on mac etc.) RM is also still at their mercy. We can't even use the current nwjs build since its also not working 100% on mac without other issues and have to constantly keep backtracking versions. Try using version 0.48.4. Just realize that the update you want from MV is MZ that required swaths of code to be updated.
 
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