Stop!!! Please stop!!!

[LAede_Aveugle]

So, last time a create a thread asking what you think we're the most frustrating things about creating RPG maker games (and it is very fascinating to see that some people hate what you love and vice versa). Now I am curious to know what you think are the annoying things that other devs do? If you could assemble all RPG marker devs in one room and ask them to stop doing something, what would be?

In my case:

1) PLEASE STOP using the RTP Sounds effects.
You have already noticed that there is an obsession for not using RTP sprites and tiles, but on the other hand, there are hundreds of games that do not change any sound effects?

Honestly, if I click on "new game" and I hear the same electronic sound indicating that the dev hasn't even touched the "System" tab, I lose 90% of my interest. I mean, it's so easy, SO EASY to change this, and you don't even have to download any new sound effects, with the ones that come with the RTP you can already innovate.

2) PLEASE STOP thinking that is okay to not check your grammar.
Yes, I know this is complicated for some people, especially if English is not your first language (as is my case), and if you have already played one of my games you know that sometimes I have trouble with that.

But at least I'm trying to correct my writing, I've seen games before that made me wonder if the dev had written so badly on purpose. RPG maker games rarely have amazing graphics, your writing is going to be what brings your game to life, so open Grammarly (or any spelling checker site) and USE IT. It's free and easy!

3) PLEASE STOP not putting effort into your NPCs
Okay, everyone has already played dozens of games where all the peasants look like this:
and only talk pointless stuff like "Hello" or break your immersion by explaining game mechanics (recently I played a game where an average kid explained the game's magic system to me and all I could think of was "But how do you know that????")

Again I have nothing against using elements of the RTP (I use it all the time), but it's not complicated to use the character generator and create generic characters. Any game that has unique NPCs earns 10 points with me automatically.

And speaking of the dialogues, as I said before most of the time it's your writing that will make your game unique, and I'm not asking that each NPC be a Homeric character with a deep and complex psyche, give two traits of character for each NPC can really make your game world feel so much more alive. For example, the village armor seller is arrogant and he sells his armor as if it were the best in the world. For the NPCs who are just walking the streets, try to imagine what they are doing? Where are they going? Do they have time to talk with the characters or not?

Coming up with an ultra basic personality for your npc is much easier than working out the details of the ancient war between demons and magicians that took place centuries ago, where the grandmaster of darkness was imprisoned in four pieces of a magic crystal guarded by four dragons...

 

[ATT_Turan]

Again I have nothing against using elements of the RTP (I use it all the time), but it's not complicated to use the character generator and create generic characters. Any game that has unique NPCs earns 10 points with me automatically.

The problem with this is that the character generator makes exactly that, generic characters. Yes, there is a variety of results you can produce, and you can download additional assets, but usually someone who has used it a bit can look at a given portrait and tell it was made with the generator.

The included NPC portraits are much more varied in facial shape, expressions, age, pose, and clothing. You literally can't reproduce most of them in the generator.

So for my tastes, this is not a fair criticism, as you're suggesting the devs ignore included assets to make ones of lower quality.

 

[BK-tdm]

Tbh some sound effects can be difficult to replace, i've been looking for a cardboard box opening soun for ages and cant find a reliable one,doors and other things can be easily replaceable and even mixing some sounds at different piches can give you completely new sfx results.

I agree with the above, to any new maker user the default rtp included faces are of higer quality compared to anything the generator can dish out, custom parts or not so they normally will be put for a "better" look.

 

[SGHarlekin]

1) PLEASE STOP using the RTP Sounds effects.
You have already noticed that there is an obsession for not using RTP sprites and tiles, but on the other hand, there are hundreds of games that do not change any sound effects?

It's not actually that easy to change this. Especially for the sound effects used for skills. There are some sources... But I had to get a paid sound effects pack to get what I wanted in my games, at least for menu sounds. Skill sounds are much more specific and the rtp has, even if they are not the greatest thing, stuff available for most things you could want. They fit the length and feel of the included animations. Changing them likely means you have to get customized animations too.

Honestly, if I click on "new game" and I hear the same electronic sound indicating that the dev hasn't even touched the "System" tab, I lose 90% of my interest. I mean, it's so easy, SO EASY to change this, and you don't even have to download any new sound effects, with the ones that come with the RTP you can already innovate.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Especially since free music is widely available for everything you could ever need.

2) PLEASE STOP thinking that is okay to not check your grammar.
Yes, I know this is complicated for some people, especially if English is not your first language (as is my case), and if you have already played one of my games you know that sometimes I have trouble with that.

Very much yes! There are tools available to check your grammar. Now keep in mind I don't "hate" the ocassional typo or spelling error, but there are so many games that are just so poorly written that even I lose interest.

3) PLEASE STOP not putting effort into your NPCs

This is a very difficult topic. You're comparing rpg maker npcs to the standard you can find in AAA RPGs... And while I do see the need for them, I also kinda think it's "immersion breaking" in its own way.

When did you go around town lately and just walked up to every person and talked to them? Did they also tell you their life story? The most realistic scenario would actually be you just greeting them, and them greeting you. (It used to be a courtesy after all) But other than that? Not happening.


Now to answer the question at hand: I hate people making trash encounters quick and easy. Sure, you need to populate your game with monsters and whatnot. But why are they always trash? Even in the most strategic games, normal encounters end up being filler content and I hate it. Reduce your encounter rate signifantly and have every battle be actually threatening and worth fighting. I absolutely hate it when the battle transition almost takes more time than the actual battle.

Now my game, Tiqee's escape is guilty of that too simply because it's what people expect. Quick 2-3 turn fights. In and out. I did try to make them threatening at least. Every encounter can very well kill you if you don't pay any attention at all. But besides that, it's technically filler content to increase playtime.

 

[gstv87]

all of this can summed up under:
"WRITE your story!"

"What's it gonna be about?"
"Eh... I just do as I go..."
NO, you don't "do as you go", you define FIRST what you gonna do and what not, and then do.
that includes how the NPCs are gonna look like, how the scenes are gonna be designed, and how the world will know (or not) what it is up against.
you being able to pull it off and do it afterwards, is another thing..... but at least it's defined.

I would also add another STOP:
STOP selling the characters (or, the universe) beforehand.
"This character is young! Therefore you must relate to it!", or "This character is queer!", or "This character is magical!".... and sell the whole character (or story) before even playing the game (or, movie.... or, series.... it's not something intrinsic to games)
if the people know the background of the character beforehand, what's the point in playing the game to find out?

 

[ericv00]

'All my characters have quirks so they will stand out and be unique. Since I have no sense of subtlety, these quirks will be dialed up to 11 and constitute 100% of their personality. Since I have no sense of character development, these quirks will remain completely unchanged by the end of their part in the story. ...But I'll give them a sad backstory so that I can pretend they aren't painfully one-note.'

STOP

Adjacent:

'The world is ending unless we can stop it. For some reason, we are bringing a 9-year-old as part of the party that will stop this world-ending catastrophe, and you better believe she will be cracking jokes and clumsily falling down like a 9-year-old all the way to the demi-god bent on eradicating the human race. Ain't she cute?!'

NO

 

[RCDunn]

"What's it gonna be about?"
"Eh... I just do as I go..."
NO, you don't "do as you go", you define FIRST what you gonna do and what not, and then do.

Eh, that doesn't work for everyone. Some people like myself like to experiment a bit at first, and if it turns into something worthwhile then I keep at it. My current game started as some random dialogue in a cave between two friends and has grown into a 5-year project.

To steal a relevant quote from George RR Martin:

“I think there are two types of writers, the architects and the gardeners. The architects plan everything ahead of time, like an architect building a house. They know how many rooms are going to be in the house, what kind of roof they're going to have, where the wires are going to run, what kind of plumbing there's going to be. They have the whole thing designed and blueprinted out before they even nail the first board up. The gardeners dig a hole, drop in a seed and water it. They kind of know what seed it is, they know if planted a fantasy seed or mystery seed or whatever. But as the plant comes up and they water it, they don't know how many branches it's going to have, they find out as it grows. And I'm much more a gardener than an architect.” ​

 

[SGHarlekin]

Eh, that doesn't work for everyone. Some people like myself like to experiment a bit at first, and if it turns into something worthwhile then I keep at it. My current game started as some random dialogue in a cave between two friends and has grown into a 5-year project.

To steal a relevant quote from George RR Martin:

This. None of my 2 games had any "planing" to them. I just had an idea and went with it. And while I don't have a gazillion sales (Yet!), both games are well received by whoever played it. While proper planing and documenting may or may not be the most efficient way of making games, it is not the only way.

 

[AphoticAmaranth]

Personally the thing that annoys me the most is badly done battle systems and unoriginal skillsets. When every mage has fire, ice, and lightning, which effectively do the same thing, it gets boring real quickly...

This. None of my 2 games had any "planing" to them. I just had an idea and went with it. And while I don't have a gazillion sales (Yet!), both games are well received by whoever played it. While proper planing and documenting may or may not be the most efificient way of making games, it is not the only way.

Same here. I've tried planning my games before, and probably ended up using less than half of what I planned.

 

[mara_vertin]

There are a few writing tropes that could use a break in my opinion.

- A girl called Alice, who wears a blue dress, is the main character and stumbles through some kind of wonderland.
- A character wakes up in a strange room with no idea how they got there and/or has memory loss.
- Random puddles of blood for a creepy atmosphere and the use of words written in blood like "die", "kill", "hate", "help".
- A character stops speaking due to trauma (especially over several years).

I understand why someone would use or like these tropes, but I feel like I've seen this so many times that I just roll my eyes every time it happens again.

 

[moonwritertheory]

So, last time a create a thread asking what you think we're the most frustrating things about creating RPG maker games (and it is very fascinating to see that some people hate what you love and vice versa). Now I am curious to know what you think are the annoying things that other devs do? If you could assemble all RPG marker devs in one room and ask them to stop doing something, what would be?

In my case:

1) PLEASE STOP using the RTP Sounds effects.
You have already noticed that there is an obsession for not using RTP sprites and tiles, but on the other hand, there are hundreds of games that do not change any sound effects?

Honestly, if I click on "new game" and I hear the same electronic sound indicating that the dev hasn't even touched the "System" tab, I lose 90% of my interest. I mean, it's so easy, SO EASY to change this, and you don't even have to download any new sound effects, with the ones that come with the RTP you can already innovate.

2) PLEASE STOP thinking that is okay to not check your grammar.
Yes, I know this is complicated for some people, especially if English is not your first language (as is my case), and if you have already played one of my games you know that sometimes I have trouble with that.

But at least I'm trying to correct my writing, I've seen games before that made me wonder if the dev had written so badly on purpose. RPG maker games rarely have amazing graphics, your writing is going to be what brings your game to life, so open Grammarly (or any spelling checker site) and USE IT. It's free and easy!

3) PLEASE STOP not putting effort into your NPCs
Okay, everyone has already played dozens of games where all the peasants look like this:View attachment 217567
and only talk pointless stuff like "Hello" or break your immersion by explaining game mechanics (recently I played a game where an average kid explained the game's magic system to me and all I could think of was "But how do you know that????")

Again I have nothing against using elements of the RTP (I use it all the time), but it's not complicated to use the character generator and create generic characters. Any game that has unique NPCs earns 10 points with me automatically.

And speaking of the dialogues, as I said before most of the time it's your writing that will make your game unique, and I'm not asking that each NPC be a Homeric character with a deep and complex psyche, give two traits of character for each NPC can really make your game world feel so much more alive. For example, the village armor seller is arrogant and he sells his armor as if it were the best in the world. For the NPCs who are just walking the streets, try to imagine what they are doing? Where are they going? Do they have time to talk with the characters or not?

Coming up with an ultra basic personality for your npc is much easier than working out the details of the ancient war between demons and magicians that took place centuries ago, where the grandmaster of darkness was imprisoned in four pieces of a magic crystal guarded by four dragons...

Making RPG Maker games is the most important thing you've learned for only beginners or amateurs. Using RTP tilesets and original characters with RTP is a good choice, except for the font and sound effects are annoying. Archeia said, just make way to change its new font and SFX. English is not a native language if they are foreigners or not, which is possible to get proofreaders for help.

 

[BenSD]

For my part in it, I don't care how many RTP assets and SE you use; if I were going to say "please stop" to anything, it would be boring mechanics and a lackluster story. Lots of people have seen plenty enough RPG Maker games to be sick of the same old sounds and sights, but everybody (hyperbole) has played Final Fantasy, so I don't think any of us really care if your four light warriors rescue the crystal and save the world from darkness; I did that thirty years ago. Avoid the tropes. Make something new. Make something compelling.

Honestly, I used a lot of RTP elements, knowing full well they wouldn't be terribly well received here, but I made my game for myself and my community more than I did for this one, so that doesn't bother me. Many of the gripes here are specific to us; that is, if you're not already neck deep in RPG Maker, you're not even going to know the assets are generic. They're still fair and valid points, but not something I put a lot of my creative decision making on.

All of that being the case, though, I value everybody's input here. This is a great community. I hope my overused 'ding' when you go to a new game doesn't turn anybody off...and you can change that sound in my game's settings if it does

 

[JohnDoeNews]

1) PLEASE STOP using the RTP Sounds effects.
You have already noticed that there is an obsession for not using RTP sprites and tiles, but on the other hand, there are hundreds of games that do not change any sound effects?

Honestly, if I click on "new game" and I hear the same electronic sound indicating that the dev hasn't even touched the "System" tab, I lose 90% of my interest. I mean, it's so easy, SO EASY to change this, and you don't even have to download any new sound effects, with the ones that come with the RTP you can already innovate.

Well, that is uncool. Those sound effects are not half bad. Neither is the RTP music. Or the RTP graphics for that matter. Selecting a different sound effect for select and confirm might not be a bad idea, but I hardly think it is necessary to delete the full RTP audio folder.
Why would anyone go trough all kind of trouble and cost to get a unique sound effect for opening a door or a chest, when the sound effects we have actually sound like opening a door or a chest.

I think the whole RTP thing is not half as bad as people seem to think, but it all depends on how you use it.

Really, someone can spend $300 on DLC music and another $500 on custom art and still make a crappier game than another dev who uses RTP. The skill to use it is so much more important than the assets you put in there.

Soooooo many devs think: If I just have those awesome graphics, I can make an awesome game. But that is not true, at all. They just make the same crappy game with badly used awesome graphics.

2) PLEASE STOP thinking that is okay to not check your grammar.
Yes, I know this is complicated for some people, especially if English is not your first language (as is my case), and if you have already played one of my games you know that sometimes I have trouble with that.

But at least I'm trying to correct my writing, I've seen games before that made me wonder if the dev had written so badly on purpose. RPG maker games rarely have amazing graphics, your writing is going to be what brings your game to life, so open Grammarly (or any spelling checker site) and USE IT. It's free and easy!

Funny thing, you make some terrible grammar mistake here. "As is my case" is not correct grammar. The is never a comme before the word "and" and finally: Putting words in all caps is never grammatically correct. It just makes it seem like you are shouting in anger.

3) PLEASE STOP not putting effort into your NPCs
Okay, everyone has already played dozens of games where all the peasants look like this:View attachment 217567

Okay, you already made your point about RTP and I already replied to that.

---

I think you need to realize not everyone has the same values as you have. Some people see RPG maker as a toy, in which they can make a story. They don't want to make the most unique game ever, they just want to make a game. And sometimes those games are super duper amazing.

So "PLEASE STOP" telling everyone they have to work the same way as you do exactly. The beauty about this software is that everyone can play with. Also kids who have no idea about RTP. Or people like me, who can't spend hundreds of dollars on custom assets.

My advice: If you don't like RPG maker games, then don't play RPG maker games. Because RPG maker comes with RTP, so people will use it. And you yelling "STOP!!! PLEASE STOP!!!" isn't going to stop anyone.

If you are that annoyed my amateur games (which by faaaaaaar most RPG maker games are) then just play AAA games. Get your a playstation with Skyrim or Fallout or GTA or I don't know, there is a ton of those. Sure, they cost $80 each, but than you get games with unique graphics, unique sound effects and absolutely no RTP at all.

 

[The Stranger]

3) PLEASE STOP not putting effort into your NPCs
Okay, everyone has already played dozens of games where all the peasants look like this:
and only talk pointless stuff like "Hello" or break your immersion by explaining game mechanics (recently I played a game where an average kid explained the game's magic system to me and all I could think of was "But how do you know that????")

I 100% agree about the pointless dialogue, but what's wrong with using these cool looking faces? Who cares if they've been used before? Seriously. Most folk here are not making games to sell, so why should they go off and spend hundreds, if not thousands hiring artists? Better yet, why should they deny themselves the use of art they like the look of, art they're are allowed to use, just because a handful of people dislike the RTP?

If anything, I'd say these faces are so unique that they don't work as generic NPCs. You'd be better off using any one of these faces for a fairly important NPC, in my opinion.

 

[TheoAllen]

Telling people what you dont like is fine. But in my case, my contribution to this thread is "please stop telling people what to do".

 

[ATT_Turan]

I think the whole RTP thing is not half as bad as people seem to think, but it all depends on how you use it.

Agreed, I feel these forums generally have a far harsher prejudice against the RTP than is actually warranted. And I can understand when I see games that are actually using the pre-installed sample maps - yes, that indicates zero effort on the part of the dev. But not everyone who uses RTP assets does so without effort or creativity.

Funny thing, you make some terrible grammar mistake here.

To be fair to the OP, the bit of text that you quoted says English is not their first language and this is something they know they're imperfect with and are continuing to work on.

So it's not really a "funny thing" when it's already admitted. (funny thing, in that criticizing sentence you also are wrong, as it should be "some terrible grammar mistakes" )

So "PLEASE STOP" telling everyone they have to work the same way as you do exactly...If you don't like RPG maker games, then don't play RPG maker games. Because RPG maker comes with RTP, so people will use it. And you yelling "STOP!!! PLEASE STOP!!!" isn't going to stop anyone.

Agreed. It's very different in tone to calmly list off "I don't like when games have these things," and to use the ranting style of the OP to tell everyone to stop doing things, as if they're all intuitively and objectively bad.

Telling people what you dont like is fine. But in my case, my contribution to this thread is "please stop telling people what to do".

Yes, this +1.

 

[BenSD]

never a comme before the word "and"

That's 100% not true, and this sentence proves it.

 

[JohnDoeNews]

To be fair to the OP, the bit of text that you quoted says English is not their first language and this is something they know they're imperfect with and are continuing to work on.

So it's not really a "funny thing" when it's already admitted. (funny thing, in that criticizing sentence you also are wrong, as it should be "some terrible grammar mistakes" )

It is funny if they tell other to please making grammar mistakes, while they are not flawless themselves. Even if they know they are not flowless... Kind of even makes it funnier.

Here is the thing... There is kinds from all over the world using this. A 14 year old from China might be super proud to even know some English, and struggle with each scene. In most cases, we don't know who is behind a game at all. Would you have thought I am a 40 year old guy? Or a 12 year old boy? You don't know.

Agreed. It's very different in tone to calmly list off "I don't like when games have these things," and to use the ranting style of the OP to tell everyone to stop doing things, as if they're all intuitively and objectively bad.

Well, there is advice and demands. They demand it.

 

[tammie]

This is a very difficult topic. You're comparing rpg maker npcs to the standard you can find in AAA RPGs... And while I do see the need for them, I also kinda think it's "immersion breaking" in its own way.

When did you go around town lately and just walked up to every person and talked to them? Did they also tell you their life story? The most realistic scenario would actually be you just greeting them, and them greeting you. (It used to be a courtesy after all) But other than that? Not happening.

and only talk pointless stuff like "Hello" or break your immersion by explaining game mechanics (recently I played a game where an average kid explained the game's magic system to me and all I could think of was "But how do you know that????")

In my game, NPCs just greet you. However, you can press a conversation. Sometimes they will respond favorably, sometimes not. Generally you can ask for their name, though they can think it's a little strange. Almost never do my NPCs ask the character to do stuff for them. Since when have you had a problem and asked some random dude at the grocery store to do it for you? The player always has to establish why they should be trusted to be spoken to, and why they can help. A reputation score variable is essential for this. In addition, you can listen into conversations that you are not involved in.

This may not be like most RPGs but it is most like real life, I think. When considering this, just think, "If I said this dialogue option to someone random in the grocery store" or wherever "how might they respond? What if some random person said this to me?"

EDIT: To add an example, someone might ask you IRL, "Could you tell me a little about this city?" And you might think that's a strange question. But it would be normal to say, "I'm new here, could you recommend any good restaurants?" or something like that. But, it still might indicate a level of familiarity that would be awkward coming from a complete stranger. In a video game, it should be the same way.

 

[ATT_Turan]

It is funny if they tell other to please making grammar mistakes, while they are not flawless themselves. Even if they know they are not flowless... Kind of even makes it funnier.

I guess? I mean, you're entitled to find amusement wherever you like

It's just that, overall, your posts have more errors than the OP does, so you criticizing it (wrongly: "as is my case" is only one letter off from "as in my case"; and commas before "and" are often correct, including where you referenced it) comes across as a bit meanspirited.

But I do agree with your overall sentiments about the topic.