Subterranean Starfield

[Faye Valentine]

Nah, I don't think you are whining at all. It's just my opinion as well, Don't get me wrong. I apologize sincerely to you if I came across as being brash and rude. Your points are all valid.

When I saw the two above posts, I was just trying to make a comparison to another dungeon crawler I've played, and I've played plenty. Essentially most, if not all, dungeon crawlers operate that way - making you, as you stated, grind like a psycho, to earn EXP, items, and money.

The idea of dungeon crawlers is for you to spend 99% of your time in the 'dungeons' trying to survive getting from one place to another. You are supposed to spend your time doing the above.

Having a good backstory is just a plus.

Oh, and if you keep fighting in the dungeons without returning to town, your battle rewards increases. Sometimes you get more items than the amount of enemies you fought.

I love a lot of RM games here in the community. More to the point, selling over inflated priced items is not one of the things on their top priority list as a part of the game mechanism.

If you like dungeon crawlers, you really should try the original Diablo, ^^

Oh no, not at all ^^ i was just saying, since text communication sometimes leads to misunderstandings.

Anyways, To be honest, i haven't played too many dungeon crawlers. The only dungeon crawler game made in RM, besides this game obviously, is Eremidia Dungeon: Skyward Temple made by Theo Allen, which is a sample game for his battle system. I'm pretty sure i have played some more, but i can't remember right now tbh. 

Anyways, i may get Diablo, looks nice. I mean, i knew about it's existence but never paid attention to it... and see if i can get some ideas from it Thanks for the suggestion~

 

[Archeia]

Cons:

-Mapping is bad. The maps have lots of mistakes but besides that, it feels pretty empty and... i don't know how to say it. It's just bad, could be a lot better since you made use of Celianna tilesets. It's a dungeon crawler, yes, but still.

The Abyssal forest is the 'tutorial stage' and is meant to be a maze. We could make it prettier but that wasn't the point of the game. When you go to later dungeons, you'll see a shift of how the levels function (no dungeon is the same) and you'll understand why it's left freely explorable. The main point of the game are battles and survival.  

-Everything is too damn expensive. To earn decent money you have to grind like a psycho, but that doesn't cares because items, armours and weapons have HIGH costs... you either buy general items (potions, mp replenisher, keys or campkits) or you buy equipment.

Most dungeon and roguelike crawlers do this. In fact, permadeath is a roguelike mechanic. The only reason that we haven't stated this game might as well be roguelike is because you can keep everything even when your party members dies (except their equipment) and get new ones. In some or most Dungeon Crawlers (e.g. Baroque) or Roguelikes, you have to start from scratch and can only keep 3 of your items. It's a thing of the genre. 

-This is more personal. I don't like that "random party" system... at all. It would be way better if we, players, could configure our party, that would be more dynamic. You can't let important things like that be decided by luck... for example, i made a mistake and lost the tank of my team (i don't remember his name now but i think it was a blonde guy)... i paid 500C (or whatever the currency is named. I don't remember it now) which is a lot, btw, to get a new member... what i get? another mage, Sordis. The party is not balanced right now... i have Felicia which deals cool damage, i have Tyrund which deals nice damage too (none of them have resistances), Pastelle (which is the healer and that's cool) aaaand Sordis.

This is actually important for the game's mechanic. We wanted players to NOT use their preferred parties and adopt a different playstyle. Not only do you have to strategize differently, no playthrough is ever the same, and the difficulty of the game is different each time depending on your party. In my case, I'm a glass canon party player focused on killing everything at the smallest amount of turns possible. In substar, I was forced to get used to a turtling/tanking type of playstyle at the same time do a lot of damage to certain enemies/bosses. This is a fact we'll never change about the game 

ps. Sordis and Natalie are awesome, they're my favorite. You just haven't seen how they work yet. It's dangerous to think of the party as le olde standard FF classes. You should play Etrian Odyssey, 7th Dragon, Grand Knights History or Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey as well, they are like classic JRPG Dungeon Crawler hard. Ailment-resistance from Bosses is something only FF does which pretty much puts high damage dealers to pedestals and the other classes to null. This is not a case to games with -great- battle systems such as my examples.

 

[Henry A.]

Hello,

I am really hooked onto this game that I even did several resets just to test out each of the character's strengths and weaknesses. After analyzing their capabilities, I have finally been flexible no matter what character the game gave me. I got past the Abyssal Forest easily and have reached Labyrinth. Sad thing is, I am stuck in 8F Labyrinth because I always end up in the camping site. I have been trying to get out of that floor for hours and I still have failed to find the entrance to the next floor. Does anyone have any pointers about getting out of 8F Labyrinth? I really want to progress through the game and finish it. I am still a newb when it comes to dungeon crawler games.

 

[Susan]

In games like this one, you would better off manually drawing your map for each floor so that you can keep your bearings. It becomes more necessary to do so as you proceed further down. You would get lost very easily if you don't. Think of it as an old school dungeon crawler.

Etrian Odyssey series are one of the modern dungeon crawlers that follows this concept. They simply provided you with the ability to draw your map on the lower touchscreen.

If you really need help, I could fire up my game again and play through it to help you find the route. But this would just be a temporary solution since, as I've said, it will get more confusing further on.

 

[Henry A.]

In games like this one, you would better off manually drawing your map for each floor so that you can keep your bearings. It becomes more necessary to do so as you proceed further down. You would get lost very easily if you don't. Think of it as an old school dungeon crawler.

Etrian Odyssey series are one of the modern dungeon crawlers that follows this concept. They simply provided you with the ability to draw your map on the lower touchscreen.

If you really need help, I could fire up my game again and play through it to help you find the route. But this would just be a temporary solution since, as I've said, it will get more confusing further on.

Thank you, I would take that advice the time I get out of 8F Labyrinth. I've really messed up my exploration in 8F so I'm not sure if I can simply draw it to find the way out. And yes please, that would help me so much if you could give me a solution out of this one. I'll drop you a private message after this.

 

[Susan]

Ok, I'm done here. I'll be uploading it to you shortly. Thanks for waiting!

 

[Evan Finkel]

Wow, I am already impressed! I would suggest anyone who want to spend their time in some games, instead play this game Subterranean Starfield.

 

[rhyme]

Happy valentines have a chocolate

(get substar's unencrypted files!)

 

[Fallun]

Hey where can i download the game? not only the patch

Edit: Found the links sorry for this post

 

[Josip]

I am a new member of the community so forgive me for asking this :/ but how do I download the game?

 

[rhyme]

Press the big top image!

(editing op to add a download link indicator)

 

[Josip]

Thank you!!

 

[Dungeonmind]

All I have to say is... Like Wow! I have so much fun playing this game, its a real treat to see an RM Game with so much potential being released in the forums, I like games like these, they give our community a good name. Props to the developers, really. I commend you guys. Keep up the good work!

- I'm jealous of how nice battle looks for front view...

 

[Matseb2611]

Heya. Decided to try the game out and have some thoughts to share. I'll apologise in advance, but a lot of it will be negative. It's not a bad game overall and there is a fun factor present, but there are so many gameplay decisions that just made me question 'why?'.

Right off the bat, I have two enormous gripes. First one, why make a randomized party? Why is it a good idea? What is stopping the player from simply closing the game and starting again till they get a party they want? Wouldn't it be more logical to just let the player pick the party of their choice? Why force the player to play as characters whose skills they might not like? And then how do you balance it? What if the player gets a party with no healers? Or a party full of mages that die easily?

My second gripe is with the difficulty selection. I wanted to play on Normal, but then I read it has perma-death if a party member dies in battle and I instantly was put off and ended up choosing Easy. Shouldn't things like perma-death just be reserved for highest difficulty? More often than not, players will not like things like perma-death. It's just too harsh of a penalty.

The game's main strength to me lies in its presentation. Everything is pretty and shiny. I might not be into cutesy stuff, but I do admit that the art is really great, everything ranging from UI, to battlers, to map tiles.

I like the map name effect too. It looks pretty stunning, but it comes every single time I transfer map, even if I am going back to a map I've been in many times already. It's a little distracting, but not a major issue.

I am also not a huge fan of battle HUD layout. I do like the art of it, but not the layout. I would really prefer to be able to see my party faces. Otherwise it's all just text and boxes. And then we also have the states. I can only see 1 state at a time, which isn't very convenient. It's better to be able to see as many states affecting the character as possible.

Music is not bad. Not entirely my thing, but it works for the setting I guess. It's a bit too loud though. I can barely hear the battle special effects, and I didn't even see an option to balance the volumes of music and sound (maybe I missed it).

And then I am hit with a brick wall of balancing. Maybe it's just me, but I found the balancing to be way off in this game. The basic healing and restorative items cost a fortune! It costs 80 gold to just heal a poison off 1 character, and I get hit with it in nearly every battle and it lasts for a good deal of time after the battle is over.

Let me explain what I mean. The gloomy flower thing has an attack that inflicts poison on everyone, which it will undoubtedly use in battle, affecting at least 1 party member. The loot it drops sells for something like 25 gold. Antidote costs 80. The cost of 1 antidote does not balance out the loss you receive in that battle, not to mention any potions you might need to buy for damage healing. I think basic restorative items like potion and antidote should be very cheap. OR provide more ways for the player to cure it. I had nobody in my party to cure the poison. This again brings me to the point about randomized party. It's a terrible idea! If I could pick my own party, I'd make sure to have someone who can cure it.

Almost a similar story with MP. MP runs out really fast in battles, and I am kind of forced to use it up on specials, because regular attack does not often cut it when some enemies heal themselves. For example that gloom flower restores something like 40 HP to itself, AND it gets 2 actions in a turn, so it can heal and attack. My party deals maybe about 10 damage on regular attack, meaning I cannot kill this enemy with attack alone if it uses its heal frequently. So I am forced to use MP.

Also, when interacting with the shopkeepers, why have all the unnecessary dialogue with them asking if you want to shop or not? Yes, I came to the shop. Of course I want to shop. If I want to cancel, I can do it from the shop window. Also, would it be possible to have all the merchants in one place? I started the game in a building and saw one shopkeeper selling stat bonus things. I didn't see any weapon or items dealers in there, so I spent all my money on the stat bonuses, then went outside and saw the other merchants, but at this stage I no longer had any money.

Also, when I return to the town, how do I return back to where I was in a dungeon? Do I have to walk the entire thing again?

Speaking of dungeon design, I find it that it kind of lacks on the landmarks. I ended up getting lost in the forest area and had to give up eventually, because I just kept walking backwards, forwards, and in circles.

Anyways, sorry for ranting so much, and it's nothing personal, but I haven't been this ticked off by fundamental gameplay decisions in quite a while and those drained all the fun from me. I like a good challenge and I do enjoy dungeon crawlers, but most of the features in this game seemed more like an annoyance than a challenge. The only thing I could properly appreciate was the overall presentation and the art, so I doubt I'd be continuing the game. Sorry.

 

[Archeia]

Heya. Decided to try the game out and have some thoughts to share. I'll apologise in advance, but a lot of it will be negative. It's not a bad game overall and there is a fun factor present, but there are so many gameplay decisions that just made me question 'why?'.

Right off the bat, I have two enormous gripes. First one, why make a randomized party? Why is it a good idea? What is stopping the player from simply closing the game and starting again till they get a party they want? Wouldn't it be more logical to just let the player pick the party of their choice? Why force the player to play as characters whose skills they might not like? And then how do you balance it? What if the player gets a party with no healers? Or a party full of mages that die easily?

Mm, I'll just repeat what I said to Pink Guy here: This is actually important for the game's mechanic. We wanted players to NOT use their preferred parties and adopt a different playstyle. Not only do you have to strategize differently, no playthrough is ever the same, and the difficulty of the game is different each time depending on your party. In my case, I'm a glass canon party player focused on killing everything at the smallest amount of turns possible. In substar, I was forced to get used to a turtling/tanking type of playstyle at the same time do a lot of damage to certain enemies/bosses. This is a fact we'll never change about the game  

 

Again, the party in substar isn't your standard le olde FF classes. There's also no 'a whole mage team.' Everyone has physical skills as well. There's Dual Classing that you will unlock.

 

My second gripe is with the difficulty selection. I wanted to play on Normal, but then I read it has perma-death if a party member dies in battle and I instantly was put off and ended up choosing Easy. Shouldn't things like perma-death just be reserved for highest difficulty? More often than not, players will not like things like perma-death. It's just too harsh of a penalty.
And then I am hit with a brick wall of balancing. Maybe it's just me, but I found the balancing to be way off in this game. The basic healing and restorative items cost a fortune! It costs 80 gold to just heal a poison off 1 character, and I get hit with it in nearly every battle and it lasts for a good deal of time after the battle is over.

Almost a similar story with MP. MP runs out really fast in battles, and I am kind of forced to use it up on specials, because regular attack does not often cut it when some enemies heal themselves. For example that gloom flower restores something like 40 HP to itself, AND it gets 2 actions in a turn, so it can heal and attack. My party deals maybe about 10 damage on regular attack, meaning I cannot kill this enemy with attack alone if it uses its heal frequently. So I am forced to use MP.

Also, when interacting with the shopkeepers, why have all the unnecessary dialogue with them asking if you want to shop or not? Yes, I came to the shop. Of course I want to shop. If I want to cancel, I can do it from the shop window. Also, would it be possible to have all the merchants in one place? I started the game in a building and saw one shopkeeper selling stat bonus things. I didn't see any weapon or items dealers in there, so I spent all my money on the stat bonuses, then went outside and saw the other merchants, but at this stage I no longer had any money.

Also, when I return to the town, how do I return back to where I was in a dungeon? Do I have to walk the entire thing again?

Speaking of dungeon design, I find it that it kind of lacks on the landmarks. I ended up getting lost in the forest area and had to give up eventually, because I just kept walking backwards, forwards, and in circles

It's a dungeon crawler. All this points you mentioned are deliberate, just to elaborate it a little.

• Permadeath is this game's main feature. When someone dies you recruit another one. The idea of the game is to emulate  Dungeon Crawler and Exploration Elements. If you aren't convinced, then Roguelike. Have you played Old school dungeon crawlers like Baroque?  And no there's no stopping you from starting all over again, that's part of the fun and appeal of this game for different people.
• Items and weapons are like that first. You also get items on the field. It's why you would want to EX CLEAR everything. But it's possible to beat it without EX Clearing. There's also a modifier on the top left of the screen that doubles your battle rewards depending on how long you didn't go back to town.
• MP is something you have to look out for. This game is grinding and exploring.
• It depends which shop we're talking about. The other shops are fine. While the food stat one is deliberate and has moments of 'characterization' of the party aside from their status profile and art. It's weird how this is a problem since it's not like all shops are in a single area and it would make sense they are in a marketplace. It just seems pretty silly.
• Mazes are deliberate. You are supposed to draw a map just like old school dungeon crawlers. rhyme wanted to emulate that feeling from their old childhood days.  And yes you will walk all the way back if you don't reach a checkpoint (which is a crystal). But otherwise, the first few levels you'll find yourself grinding but this is a Dungeon Crawler and the entire focus is on battles, exploration, puzzles and survival. Not an epic story JRPG.

 

[rhyme]

...

 
I'd like to clear up something about the randomized party feature:


That feature is something I had decided on in order to allow players to experience different play styles by forcing them to adapt to said party (and potentially using them in unusual and creative ways: getting players to open up to different styles in which they may learn about when playing other games, or designing them!!). It is a core of Subterranean Starfield's design and is the basis of every other design decision made within the game; it is the core of the game itself! If it's not of your liking, then unfortunately this game isn't for you


That said, I am not stopping people from restarting the game over and over to find the party they prefer to have. It's difficult to judge how useful a party is from the first 3 battles, as the game progresses; more and more challenges would be presented and each party member has their own unique ways of overcoming said obstacles. You never know what sort of unique little skill combos could occur with certain parties; or even synergizing with subclasses!


I have personally tested every boss battle on the hardest difficulty with the lowest required level; on most if not all party combinations; and thus with full confidence can say that regardless of what party you end up with; you SHOULD be able to clear it.


If you're interested in the balancing side:

Spoiler

Every single party member (aside from Felicie - an all rounder which is flexible enough to do everything well; but not incredible) has a notable Strength, and Weakness. There will be a powerful healer; a powerful tank; a powerful glass cannon; a powerful nuker; a powerful crowd-controller; a powerful initiator, and so on. You will never end up with a party incapable of healing; but you CAN indeed end up with a party that cannot heal at the first few levels.


In addition: Parties/members that are generally difficult in early game are easy at end game: Natalie has Physical weakness and can be oneshot by enemies at the first few floors; however, at higher levels she can easily wipe out enemies with a single attack; and restore MP constantly enough to never run out. Gerhard may be terrible against magic damage and can be wiped out by Fairies easily; but he is near-immortal once you gear him well. Cirine is quick and powerful in the beginning; but slowly loses her luster at endgame - albeit still useful for quick initiative strikes or provoking and evading attacks.


This idea was conceived out of the desire to let players think outside of their usual RPG play styles and thought processes, gives them tools to create their own unique party and play style, and of course during it, let the player appreciate the party they end up with, even if they didn't like it at first:


Someone hated tanks when playtesting Subterranean Starfield, they always tried to go glass cannon. After 4 or 5 game overs; he did decide to turn someone into a Defender: and now he appreciates Gerhard (and says he's too op - i thought Tyrund was op, and Archeia thought Natalie was op, another tester thought Cirine was op).


From both feedback and personal testing, I'm confident that regardless of the party you end up with, there will be a way to overcome the obstacles your party has been presented with.


Thus! The whole idea is to give the players a different set of tools to try a different way of doing the same thing!

 
On a side note, if you ever decide to try the game again, hold Shift for a few seconds during the black screen after the difficulty select: That will call up the difficulty customization screen and allow you to alter specific rules of your playthrough!

 

[Matseb2611]

It's a dungeon crawler. All this points you mentioned are deliberate...

But 'dungeon crawler' shouldn't be an excuse. Most of the features just felt like an annoyance. Random party members? Overpriced healing items? Perma-death? All this stuff is artificial difficulty. I've recently played a dungeon crawler I really enjoyed (Eremidia Dungeon: Skyward Temple). It had some great challenges and at no point did I ever think "Wow, this is unfair" or "Wow, this is testing my patience".

It depends which shop we're talking about. The other shops are fine. While the food stat one is deliberate and has moments of 'characterization' of the party aside from their status profile and art. It's weird how this is a problem since it's not like all shops are in a single area and it would make sense they are in a marketplace. It just seems pretty silly.

I mean stuff like me coming to an item vendor and him saying something and then a choice coming up "Shop" and "Cancel". Why is that even necessary? If I can cancel from the shop window already, why have that extra unneeded step? I just found myself constantly hammering the space bar to get through it as fast as possible just so that I could buy 1 potion.

Mazes are deliberate. You are supposed to draw a map just like old school dungeon crawlers. rhyme wanted to emulate that feeling from their old childhood days.  And yes you will walk all the way back if you don't reach a checkpoint (which is a crystal). But otherwise, the first few levels you'll find yourself grinding but this is a Dungeon Crawler and the entire focus is on battles, exploration, puzzles and survival. Not an epic story JRPG.

But we're in the 21st century. Why is this even a thing? To draw a map? You must be having a laugh. If some newbie came onto the forums with their first RM game and pulled a stunt like that, they'd get collectively bashed by the whole community. I don't see what's so fun about this at all.

Also, I wasn't really expecting a story or deep characterization, since I know dungeon crawlers don't focus on that (in fact I haven't mentioned these at all in my critique).

Well, I guess never mind then. You guys seem pretty firm on the random party idea and I can respect that, since it was part of your original vision. I am not a fan of it at all, and personally I would've preferred to pick my own party (as I am sure many players would too). Getting to pick your own party is not so bad. If there are many choices, players would be interested to try out different combinations, but at least it's controlled and not totally random. If none of the characters has any distinct role, then what is the point of having 8 characters at all? If they're all nearly identical, having so many of them just seems redundant.

 

[Archeia]

But 'dungeon crawler' shouldn't be an excuse. Most of the features just felt like an annoyance. Random party members? Overpriced healing items? Perma-death? All this stuff is artificial difficulty. I've recently played a dungeon crawler I really enjoyed (Eremidia Dungeon: Skyward Temple). It had some great challenges and at no point did I ever think "Wow, this is unfair" or "Wow, this is testing my patience".

It's part of the genre, not an excuse. Permadeath is not an 'aritificial' difficulty. While some players would agree that permadeath as a mechanic is punishing, part of the appeal of exploration is keeping your party members alive as it is a permanent consequence of your actions. I didn't think the items are overpriced either. One of the main points of the game is resource management. There was only one item that I thought was ridiculous back then, but that was long fixed. Comparing Substar to Erimidia is apples and oranges as the goals of both games are widely different.

I mean stuff like me coming to an item vendor and him saying something and then a choice coming up "Shop" and "Cancel". Why is that even necessary? If I can cancel from the shop window already, why have that extra unneeded step? I just found myself constantly hammering the space bar to get through it as fast as possible just so that I could buy 1 potion.

I'm not entirely sure why rhyme added that aside from dialogue but it didn't matter to me when I played it or some testers, so I guess it's a conditional issue.

But we're in the 21st century. Why is this even a thing? To draw a map? You must be having a laugh. If some newbie came onto the forums with their first RM game and pulled a stunt like that, they'd get collectively bashed by the whole community. I don't see what's so fun about this at all.

Also, I wasn't really expecting a story or deep characterization, since I know dungeon crawlers don't focus on that (in fact I haven't mentioned these at all in my critique).

Well, I guess never mind then. You guys seem pretty firm on the random party idea and I can respect that, since it was part of your original vision. I am not a fan of it at all, and personally I would've preferred to pick my own party (as I am sure many players would too). Getting to pick your own party is not so bad. If there are many choices, players would be interested to try out different combinations, but at least it's controlled and not totally random. If none of the characters has any distinct role, then what is the point of having 8 characters at all? If they're all nearly identical, having so many of them just seems redundant.

Eh, what are you talking about in that first sentence? Etrian Odyssey allows you to draw your own maps it's just made easier. And again, it doesn't matter since the target audience of this game is for that specific niche that enjoys games like that. (For those who are curious, that is Etolier from JP RM Community mapping one of the stages in Substar while playing~). If you read my post again, rhyme wanted that feeling. I did mention this to rhyme but I respect their vision and I can see the appeal of it. Personally, it wasn't a big thing since it does make you feel like a cartographer, which once again, is the point of substar.

Again, picking your own party members will just make you play in your preferred playstyle which is what the game didn't want you to do. They are not near identical, they have major strengths and weaknesses and they are pretty individualistic. I know that you didn't get past the first stage but basing character roles when you haven't utilized them as of yet as being samey is a questionable criticism.

Of course that's not to say we don't appreciate the feedback, but this kind of complaints is something we had to clarify as to why we have decided to make the game function that way

 

[Matseb2611]

Comparing Substar to Erimidia is apples and oranges as the goals of both games are widely different.

Not sure what you mean there. They're both dungeon crawlers, the goal of which is to get past each level of the dungeon and beat the boss at the end.

I'm not entirely sure why rhyme added that aside from dialogue but it didn't matter to me when I played it or some testers, so I guess it's a conditional issue.

It might not be a big issue and most testers maybe didn't feel it was worth mentioning, but it's one of those little annoyances that can be easily rectified. After all, don't you want the player experience of the game to have as few hurdles and hiccups as possible?

Anyways, never mind I guess. I was just stating my impressions as a fan of RM games and a fan of dungeon crawlers, and why many of the game's mechanics didn't appeal to me. Doing unconventional mechanics is fine, but too many and you run the risk of narrowing your audience greatly or downright annoying the players. Take as much of my critique as you want really. If any of it feels like questionable critique to you, then so be it. They are just my honest impressions of the first hour, which is more than many potential players will be willing to give a chance if the game manages to annoy them so much in the early stages. If you had to justify the gameplay decisions to many other people, as you've said, then maybe it's something worth considering and taking on board.

 

[Archeia]

Not sure what you mean there. They're both dungeon crawlers, the goal of which is to get past each level of the dungeon and beat the boss at the end.

Here's an easier way of thinking this, are you comparing Substar to Erimidia as RM games or are you comparing them as a whole genre. Think about it. 

It might not be a big issue and most testers maybe didn't feel it was worth mentioning, but it's one of those little annoyances that can be easily rectified. After all, don't you want the player experience of the game to have as few hurdles and hiccups as possible?

I believe that some of them have separate categories like for weapons via types. I just choke it up to rhyme just not having time to implement it haha.

Anyways, never mind I guess. I was just stating my impressions as a fan of RM games and a fan of dungeon crawlers, and why many of the game's mechanics didn't appeal to me. Doing unconventional mechanics is fine, but too many and you run the risk of narrowing your audience greatly or downright annoying the players. Take as much of my critique as you want really. If any of it feels like questionable critique to you, then so be it. They are just my honest impressions of the first hour, which is more than many potential players will be willing to give a chance if the game manages to annoy them so much in the early stages. If you had to justify the gameplay decisions to many other people, as you've said, then maybe it's something worth considering and taking on board.

One of my favorite dungeon crawlers had me restarting from ground zero where dying is the main point of the game, that would mean you would hate that game as well. But it is one of those few novel games that have an artistic vision.




I get that you are probably one of those gamers that loves fast dungeon crawlers than grindy, old school, hardcore dungeon crawler types. And your personal opinion is just fine. But justification is needed for a game development community as to why you have presented the game that way. Since a lot of developers or players don't take into consideration other sub genres of a genre and the design aesthetics around them. I would discuss about it here but that would be going off topic and something that is better in a new topic.