Suggestion: New Requirements for "Completed Game" section

[Bonkers]

It's gotten to the point where I can play a game in the completed game section that clearly isn't complete, due to technical issues or design flaws. If a game has bugs I can understand, even if they are game breaking; but there comes a point where the excuses run out.

To take pressure off the moderators and trying to make staff do more work than necessary I propose that if a game wishes to make it to the completed games section it needs to be tested by at least 3 members of the community before going from either project development or early concept  to later in it's life on the forums.

While it may not seem like a lot, it can add a bit to the quality we can expect from developers who wish to display their work.  While I am not asking people retroactively do this for all games already present it would be nice to expect some level of functionality in the completed games section or assurance from the community members who tested it previously and approved it going forward with their own time.

I understand this means other members using their time towards someone else's project, but if a game can't get a least 3 people behind it to fully complete it start to finish, then it may not belong in the completed games section.

 

[EternalShadow]

"I understand this means other members using their time towards someone else's project, but if a game can't get a least 3 people behind it to fully complete it start to finish, then it may not belong in the completed games section."


What if the game just isn't popular, or people don't want to play it for whatever reason? Doesn't mean the game is incomplete in that regard, it just means the game is either bad (but still complete), badly presented (may be a good game, but the advert/description unengaging), or the memberbase may be busy at seasonal events eg Mother's Day.


Also, what if it's a very long game?

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

I do vote against this... As much as it's a nice idea, it isn't easy to pull-off... Unless we create a certain group of people in the community tasked with doing the tests... Now if we can have that group, then I'd vote for this idea to pursue. Also because if it's just any 3 members, then every game might be subjected to a different kind of "testing". Having a specific group for this task will make it fairer for each game IMHO.


It will be far easier for everyone to just continue as is, then if somebody encounters a big problem such as this one, then you could inform everyone by posting on the thread...


PS: How do we define "Incomplete due to technical reasons and/or design flaws"?

 

[Bonkers]

"I understand this means other members using their time towards someone else's project, but if a game can't get a least 3 people behind it to fully complete it start to finish, then it may not belong in the completed games section."

What if the game just isn't popular, or people don't want to play it for whatever reason? Doesn't mean the game is incomplete in that regard, it just means the game is either bad (but still complete), badly presented (may be a good game, but the advert/description unengaging), or the memberbase may be busy at seasonal events eg Mother's Day.

Also, what if it's a very long game?

Every game I've seen posted to these forums gets some level of attention and 3 people is not asking too much.  

If it isn't popular?  That isn't my concern or the topic at hand.  I cannot answer that question.  

Popularity and complete design to me are two different things.  That is for the person developing the game to handle and on their side of early concept/project development.  If people wish to come forward and advise them to spruce those things up, that's entirely up to them.  Or they can seek advice themselves.  

That isn't what I am proposing here.

I don't see how it being a holiday would matter.  If the member base is busy, that is usually the same time the mods or staff is busy elsewhere as well.  The threads themselves take up to 72 hours or so to update with new games anyway.  I'm afraid I don't see your point there.

If it's over 24 hours?  That's a toughie.  I suppose at the point the game becomes unplayable or enough people cannot complete the game who wish to do so.  The average game does not go for more than 5-10 hours that I've seen but this is an exception that does happen.  I'll leave that up to the mods, since this is just a suggestion at this point.  Very long games can't be easily tested start to finish, but they can have obvious flaws that prevent game play.  I'd need to see a case of a genuinely long game that couldn't be completed in it's current state to comment.

 

@Engr. Adiktuzmiko

That's a good question.  I'd say at the point the game cannot continue or has no ability for the player to move forward or complete the intended goal.  That's doesn't mean a game over, or a "You Lose" scenario, simply the game cannot be completed as the developer intended.  

We're expecting a level of responsibility when someone posts a game, and sometimes that falls short of their goal.  Yes it would be easier to continue as we are doing now, and it wouldn't involved any member participation.  I am simply giving a suggestion if we want to see improvement or more integrity with releasing what we call a "completed" game.  i'm not expecting a professional level by far.  I am simply looking for a bare minimum here.  

You are proposing homogeneous testing?  I wasn't prepared to go to that level of professionalism.  I simply thought 3 average people being able to play, and possibly complete the game within the given design would be enough.  

 

[C-C-C-Cashmere (old)]

That is a toughie. Although I think that it's a huge ask for 3 people to test a game for every single name - nearly impossible, and I'd say even a waste of time.

I suggest that if you see a game that is incomplete or has bugs that don't consider it a complete game, you should be able to report it to the mods and they will demote it to a "non-complete" game, if you will. That way people don't feel like there are so many barriers to releasing their game, including having to arrange 3 people to test their game. This may take weeks/months to complete, which is a nightmare.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

Asking people to play the game = easy


Asking people to finish the game = that's a different story


Though if you're already been putting a lot of info on a Project Dev thread for it, then it might not be much of a problem...


and as much as maybe we don't have much 20+ hours game out there (cannot check it myself), that is what most of us aspires to do I think...


+ I do think some people have their own circle of testers

 

[Bonkers]

Asking people to play the game = easy

Asking people to finish the game = that's a different story

Though if you're already been putting a lot of info on a Project Dev thread for it, then it might not be much of a problem...

and as much as maybe we don't have much 20+ hours game out there (cannot check it myself), that is what most of us aspires to do I think...

+ I do think some people have their own circle of testers

That is exactly what I am saying.  There are at least 3 people in your circle of testers in this community, and that would be enough for the game to progress forward.

@Cashmere cat

That's what I wasn't prepared for, the big exceptions that happen from time to time for the huge games.  I don't mean to delay them, but by that time in their life and development they have had to have had some sort of beta testing before being declared finished well in advance from it's own fan base.  

And you are right, as it stands that would be easier.  I am simply putting the idea forward.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

I mean circle of testers outside...


IMHO, this is quite a grey-idea... It's good but I don't think it will be really pull-able on this time... If it will be harder to post games in this community, it might simply make them just put up their game on free hostings out there...


and as cat says, you can simply just inform the mods or the people via posting on the thread in case of problems

 

[EternalShadow]

There's a 20+-hour game in the forum somewhere, it was called Manifest I think.


Also, I've seen many completed game topics go by without even a single reply. Ermedia: Dungeon was one before I responded to it. A brilliant quality game, but not even acknowledgement of its existence was there until I posted.


Also, saying everyone has their own circle of testers is another big ask. Those just getting into game design won't have the circle, and those circles can overlap. What happens if two people share the same three testers, and both release a game at similar times? Three people? Four? Sure, less likely as the number grows, but worth taking into consideration as the testing circle for those actually willing to play games to completion is small.

 

[Bonkers]

I mean circle of testers outside...

IMHO, this is quite a grey-idea... It's good but I don't think it will be really pull-able on this time... If it will be harder to post games in this community, it might simply make them just put up their game on free hostings out there...

I'm not saying they wouldn't be able to put their game up here at all, just in the early project or development forum. Not the "Completed Games" section.  

@hotfirelegend It's 30+ hours and yes.  Also Lunar orbs.  Two very huge games.

Hmm, that is a fair point about the overlap.  I'd have just waited myself since it's all noncommercial posted here to completed games.  There is no money at risk that I know of if time towards release is lost.    

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

Hmmmmm... I'm still against it... even if we like disable posting on the completed games forum, and the only way to get to it is to post a thread on the dev thread forum and garner the minimum of 3 good tests... though that will a logical move

 

[EternalShadow]

There'd need to be some sort of benefit for both the testers and the creators to having it in the 'completed games' section to make it worthwhile, besides the mention that it is a complete game (because, y'know, we KNOW that lol).

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

That can be the hard part, having incentive for the tester...

 

[Lars Ulrika]

Voting against that system. Just make a report section to report buggy "completed" games so that they're sent back to the lower section and that's it. 

 

[mightydarkchocolate]

I quite agree with  a condition for a game should be tested from the beginning till the finish. At least, even for a big game, even if it not possible to do detailed run test, a developer should at least played their game roughly for one more time first before posted it to public. Smooth and clean game (free from unforgivable bugs) will reflect a good image of the developer as well increase people interest & trust to play your games.

I don't mean bragging, but after I had done my game, I & teammates will at least did complete runtest (10 and more for short games & 5x for long games before posted it out). I don't mind people said it waste of time, blah, blah and such but having others than teammates and me discovered glitches in our games is quite embarrassing and not to mention how we had disappointed these people (who really get excite to play our games & enjoy it but suddenly, Bum! a glitch appear and they got frustrated).

My past experience, happened when I believes 100% no more bugs will be discovered after several complete run tests done proved to be wrong when certain player came & told me about me about hidden bugs. It's a heartbroken news till today, but at least we get really careful and try to fix our method in next games to avoid such mistakes. I knew  a phrase ''not all games are perfect'' but at least, if we can detect the problems first, we should be the ones fixing it beforehand.

 

[Arkecia]

I like what Engr. Adiktuzmiko suggested about a group of members, perhaps getting a unique title to show that they are quality control.

The goal would be that members have to first post in Project Development before it can be manually moved to Completed Games, and the task of this group of testers is to play through a game that wants to be moved to completed. Only one would do really (more would be ideal, but it's asking too much); they just need to see if it's possible to finish the game in its entirety.  That's really as far as I would take it, even if the game isn't of the highest quality I wouldn't want to bar people from having a completed game in the desired section.

However, when a game has no way to be completed due to a lack of testing on the developer's part and is riddled with game crashing bugs, then it rightly shouldn't be in the Completed Games sections since...it can't be completed by the player. If a group was formed and made official; I know a couple of people on here who would show interest in helping others test their games. I'd be willing to play longer RM games in any case.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

@Mighty - Testing yes, of course... but requiring a game to be tested to the end by at least 3 of the community members is a different thing... The main problem would be getting the testers and possibly the amount of "to be released games" versus the amount of willing community members to test them out...


which can be battled out if we have a dedicated team of people to do the playtests... though surely, if there is a huge amount of projects on the waiting line, it can surely get long before you get moved.

 

[Zoltor]

If there was a committee or whatnot devoted to playtesting games, then this would be a great idea, but without such, people could end up waiting months, if not well over a year, before they would be allowed to post their "completed" games in the completed game section, so this idea would end up being a nightmare in most cases.

 

[amerk]

Voted against. If a download is broken, that's one thing. But ensuring the game doesn't bug out halfway though (especially if the game is 20 hours or more), that's too much to ask for a small group. 1 month minimum for a lot of these games, unless a tester is playing the game non stop.

Not to mention, the tester may get halfway through and suddenly life calls and they think well, it's good enough, and report back they played it and no bugs.

Just make a post. Somebody will see it and either try to aid you, if they can, or the developer will provide a fix. If not, then they'll wind up with a reputation of broken games and nobody will want to come around their topic no more.

 

[mightydarkchocolate]

I just hoping there will be a change or a way to ensure there is no buggy or glitch games in completed section, although it might be take a time for best rule/method to be applied. My concern started just 2 months ago, while trolling around the internet for some RPG games, I am quite torn by one single comment post in one of the tumblr site by 1 member, replying to another member who is asking for more games suggestion of certain genre and stated she's playing the games from this site.

Well, the 'said' member replied to her/him saying something like, ''that site filled with many broken games.'' & told her/him to be careful. You can say I am lying, but to be honest, I don't see the relevant of doing it over here. It didn't give me any benefits. It's happened 2 months ago, so I had lost track of the website address & I beg pardon I couldn't give solid proof for what I am saying if you are asking where I read those.

All I want to say is, his comment, it  seems to be pointing to all games in general, even we here know it wasn't 100% true. Not all games filled with bugs or broken as he said. But it could be that he himself is a victim who had stumbled across some buggy games in this site and come into such conclusion. Just sad and angry to think that how many people might read this comment and think how they will react to it, especially when they visit this site. For some people who said ''just ignore it, didn't matter, etc'' but for me & others developers who had worked hard on their games & hoping for our hard work to be enjoyed by others with no worries, this quite a heartache.

I loves this site & community, this is where I could show my games products with pride and have them played by others. As much I love this, I just hoping  for better changes & hope members realized how serious this situation is. Again, pardon me if my words are offensive for some members. Just sharing what I had been see/read in past.