Suggestions for the next RPG Maker

[Tsukihime]

@Zoltar/Tsukihime How exactly would having individual 32 X 32 images of every tile be any more helpful (or even as helpful) as just overlaying a 32 X 32 grid at 50 opacity as a second layer over a full tile-set and then removing that layer when you are finished editing the tile-set? To me it would be infuriating because rather than then being able to copy the tiles in their entirety if it makes up a large image such as a bookshelf that takes up 6 tiles as an example using the grid-lines to copy only those 6 tiles and align them perfectly in the new tile-set for editing you'd have to open up 6 separate image files each with only 1/6 of the image and splice them together, which would still probably require you to use some sort of grid in your new tile-set to make sure that these images are aligned correctly... so I really can't envision any benefits from doing it this way.

This was assuming you didn't need to copy tiles of variable sizes.


In that case, the tool would allow you to select a group of tiles and choose where to place it in your new tileset (with a grid, maybe)


You don't need to manually align it then.

OK, but as I said it still needs to copy and save the single files into a tilesheet before they can be used, and for that we'll need an external program.


And that program isn't simple to make, because on the A-sheets, the tiles have different sizes (up to 192x96 for a single animated autotile)

The tool would allow you to define the size of a tile (32x32, 96x96, 192x96, etc.) and then allows you to build a tileset by clicking on your grid. Maybe drag and drop if you want to get sophisticated.

 

[Alexander Amnell]

Ok so you are talking about an external tool then, not just individual tiles. one that can instantly mix and match tile-sets to your liking on the go. I guess I can see a use for that maybe... still I feel that tile editing is easy enough without it but I can see how it would be useful if your goal was more of just putting tiles from various sets together in order to make a tile-set that has every tile you need and none that you don't on it.

 

[Zoltor]

Ok so you are talking about an external tool then, not just individual tiles. one that can instantly mix and match tile-sets to your liking on the go. I guess I can see a use for that maybe... still I feel that tile editing is easy enough without it but I can see how it would be useful if your goal was more of just putting tiles from various sets together in order to make a tile-set that has every tile you need and none that you don't on it.

Yea,well not a tool, just having access to individual pics for each tile,since as long as the developer has access to the pics, they can use any halfways decent art program they have, to put them together, however they please.

 

[Alexander Amnell]

@Zoltar By themselves I cannot see how the individual pieces would be anything other than a hindrance. Read/answer my first post that Tsukihime originally answered... just having them broken down individually by tile would do nothing that I can see other than making editing them slower and harder, especially for objects that compose multiple tiles. Tsukihime's idea of an external program is the only way I could see that having any use at all, which is why I originally asked for an explanation as to how it would be beneficial with a description of why I don't believe it would be.

 

[Zoltor]

@Zoltar By themselves I cannot see how the individual pieces would be anything other than a hindrance. Read/answer my first post that Tsukihime originally answered... just having them broken down individually by tile would do nothing that I can see other than making editing them slower and harder, especially for objects that compose multiple tiles. Tsukihime's idea of an external program is the only way I could see that having any use at all, which is why I originally asked for an explanation as to how it would be beneficial with a description of why I don't believe it would be.

Omg looks like I'm gonna have to DL a video capture program, It's pretty clear I'm gonna have to show you all how easy, super fast, and all around smooth it would make it(It's copy, paste in art program, and move into position, It's literally that easy).

 

[Tsukihime]

I see no difference between that and using a selection tool with snap-to grids and then copy paste + move into position.


In fact, having a snap-to grid would allow me to do all my work on a single file rather than having to go through a thousand individual images one by one.

 

[DS Piron]

Omg looks like I'm gonna have to DL a video capture program, It's pretty clear I'm gonna have to show you all how easy, super fast, and all around smooth it would make it(It's copy, paste in art program, and move into position, It's literally that easy).

Perhaps you should do the opposite, and show us how you are getting them from the tile sheet. It really shouldn't be harder than remaking them from scratch (unless that was hyperbole)

I see no difference between that and using a selection tool with snap-to grids and then copy paste + move into position.

In fact, having a snap-to grid would allow me to do all my work on a single file rather than having to go through a thousand individual images one by one.

...Forgot about the snap-to grid feature, otherwise I'd totally recommend that, epescially since Photoshop is like MSPaint: it doesn't allow you to adjust selections by handles, yadda, yadda.

 

[Zoltor]

I see no difference between that and using a selection tool with snap-to grids and then copy paste + move into position.

In fact, having a snap-to grid would allow me to do all my work on a single file rather than having to go through a thousand individual images one by one.

Titlesets have no grid once finished, It's a single pic, besides the lasso tool doesn't have a grid option, nevermind a snap on grid option.

There's no easy way to edit a already made tileset, without screwing up, you basically have to guesstimat that your 32x32 selection square is positioned perfectly on the tileset picture, good luck with that.

 

[Zoltor]

Perhaps you should do the opposite, and show us how you are getting them from the tile sheet. It really shouldn't be harder than remaking them from scratch (unless that was hyperbole)

...Forgot about the snap-to grid feature, otherwise I'd totally recommend that, epescially since Photoshop is like MSPaint: it doesn't allow you to adjust selections by handles, yadda, yadda.

That's the problem, I cant(not without screwing the tiles up). However I can put together tons of tilesets in no time, due to the huge file of individual pics I have access to, from a game I was developing years ago(not through RPG Maker mind you).

 

[DS Piron]

That's the problem, I cant(not without screwing the tiles up). However I can put together tons of tilesets in no time, due to the huge file of individual pics I have access to, from a game I was developing years ago(not through RPG Maker mind you).

...Then you are doing doing something wrong.

Also look in View, or - aw heck with, stay here *googles "Photoshop elements snap to grid", gets this.*

View>Snap To>Grid

^ That's what your looking for.

...besides the lasso tool doesn't have a grid option, nevermind a snap on grid option...

Also, use what Photoshop calls the "Rectangular Marquee" (selection) tool, if you aren't already. The lasso tool really should never be used for getting tiles, when selecing by perfect rectangles is an opiton.

And Snap To Grid makes all mouse movement go by the grid, which you can configure to 32x32, allowing easy selection (you then turn it off when you are editing the tiles)

Even then, a 32x32 grid would eliminate the guesswork.

And finally, in case you are literally cropping the image and editing that, you can just copy and paste it into the new sheet, you know that, right?

EDIT - in response to Tsuikihime, below

He's using Photoshop Elements 11, and y

 

[Tsukihime]

Titlesets have no grid once finished, It's a single pic, besides the lasso tool doesn't have a grid option, nevermind a snap on grid option.


There's no easy way to edit a already made tileset, without screwing up, you basically have to guesstimat that your 32x32 selection square is positioned perfectly on the tileset picture, good luck with that.

All tiles on a tileset are uniform in size. Otherwise there is no way for the engine to handle arbitrary tilesets without you providing information about your tileset. This means that the grid is implied.


You don't need to do any sort of guessing to determine whether your 32x32 square is at an appropriate position.


If your image editor does not provide you with a grid or doesn't tell you where the top-left corner of your box is, then you are using junkware and need to find something else.

 

[Alexander Amnell]

It sounds like you aren't using grids to position your tiles. Surely your program has the ability to use that option? (if not, get paint.net or something, it's free) You just make a 32 X 32 grid created in a different layer at like 50 opacity over your tileset so you can easily line everything up without messing it's relative position up and delete that layer before you save the tile-set... 

 

[Zoltor]

It sounds like you aren't using grids to position your tiles. Surely your program has the ability to use that option? (if not, get paint.net or something, it's free) You just make a 32 X 32 grid created in a different layer at like 50 opacity over your tileset so you can easily line everything up without messing it's relative position up and delete that layer before you save the tile-set... 

The problem Isn't making my own tilesets from scratch, the problem is with taking tiles from premade tilesets, to mix with my tilesets.

I'm not using GIMP(lol never even heard of that program before coming to these forums, and I hang around DA a lot, the biggest Art site out there).

What's all this silly talk about layers, It's just a single layer, copy, paste, move/snap into position, and there's no efficient way to crop a 32x32 square from what has become a single picture.

If a tileset remained separated into individual pictures, just squeexed together, the move tool in art programs wouldn't try moving the entire thing.

Also you're wrong, the editor doesn't recognize them as separate pics, it just lets you to select a graphic within the "editor's" 32x32 selection tool, it has nothing to do with the tileset its self. but everything to do with what graphic is in the editors selection square.

 

[Alexander Amnell]

I'm not using GIMP(lol never even heard of that program before coming to these forums, and I hang around DA a lot, the biggest Art site out there).

What's all this silly talk about layers, It's just a single layer, copy, paste, move/snap into position, and there's no efficient way to crop a 32x32 square from what has become a single picture.

If a tileset remained separated into individual pictures, just squeexed together, the move tool in art programs wouldn't try moving the entire thing.

Also you're wrong, the editor doesn't recognize them as separate pics, it just lets you to select a graphic within the "editor's" 32x32 selection tool, it has nothing to do with the tileset its self. but everything to do with what graphic is in the editors selection square.

When did I say GIMP? I said "your program" this time. Seriously, if your program you are editing tiles in won't allow layers or grids then it's not really the right kind of tool to be editing tilesets in in the first place. Utilizing these tools will make editing tiles easier than your idea would, so it's better to just learn to use them than come up with other ways to make it easier that are actually less effective than a method that already exists. Just because you are not familiar with something doesn't make it "silly" or "inefficient". I was clueless to these concepts as well when I first started editing tiles but rather than debasing people who suggested such conventions to me by calling their advice "silly talk" I actually googled and learned what it was they were referring to and realized that it made everything much easier than I believed such things could be, and allows me to make nice-looking edited tiles in a matter of minutes where they would before take an hour or more.

 

[DS Piron]

I'm not using GIMP(lol never even heard of that program before coming to these forums, and I hang around DA a lot, the biggest Art site out there).

...Paint.Net and GIMP are two seperate free photoediting programs, like Photoshop Elements. But I'll take that as "I'm not using another program"

What's all this silly talk about layers, It's just a single layer, copy, paste, move/snap into position, and there's no efficient way to crop a 32x32 square from what has become a single picture.

He's suggesting you make a grid on a seperate layer; transparent,and over the tilesheet, which you can then use to determine where to select your tiles, instead of having to figure out where one ends and another begins. You then delete this guide before you save, so it's not on the tile sheet.

Also, why do you keep saying crop?

If a tileset remained separated into individual pictures, just squeexed together, the move tool in art programs wouldn't try moving the entire thing.


Also you're wrong, the editor doesn't recognize them as separate pics, it just lets you to select a graphic within the "editor's" 32x32 selection tool, it has nothing to do with the tileset its self. but everything to do with what graphic is in the editors selection square.

...erm, I can't find a defintion for sqeexed. Are they all on seperate layers in the same Photoshop project-thing, because you load them all seperately? *is confused*

When did I say GIMP? I said "your program" this time. Seriously, if your program you are editing tiles in won't allow layers or grids then it's not really the right kind of tool to be editing tilesets in in the first place.

He's using photoshop elements, according to him.

I'm the one who said GIMP (and that was less a suggestion, and more a "this is my point of reference")

 

[Andar]

and there's no efficient way to crop a 32x32 square from what has become a single picture.

Yes, there is - and it's in almost any image program. That is what everyone has been trying to tell you in the last several posts.
Ignore the lasso for selection, use rectangular selection.


Activate the grid option of your image program, have it snap to grid and set the grid to 32x32 manually in the program's options.


If you're using Photoshop Elements, then DS Piron gave you the links on how to activate the grid and snap to grid in Photoshop Elements several posts ago.


After that it's two seconds to get a perfect selection of any tile from any premade tilesheet to be copied to your own tilesheet, and you can even decide to copy just a single 32x32 grid element or any multiple of that.

 

[Zoltor]

Yes, there is - and it's in almost any image program. That is what everyone has been trying to tell you in the last several posts.

Ignore the lasso for selection, use rectangular selection.

Activate the grid option of your image program, have it snap to grid and set the grid to 32x32 manually in the program's options.

If you're using Photoshop Elements, then DS Piron gave you the links on how to activate the grid and snap to grid in Photoshop Elements several posts ago.

After that it's two seconds to get a perfect selection of any tile from any premade tilesheet to be copied to your own tilesheet, and you can even decide to copy just a single 32x32 grid element or any multiple of that.

I can make 32x32 squares with that tool, but there's no setting to have a grid while on that setting, nevermind a snap on grid option(give me a sec, I'll post a SS).



See on the bottom left, no grid option.

 

[DS Piron]

...I have no idea why the Grid wouldn't be.

How did you turn the Grid on in the first place?

Also, can I see a screenshot of that View menu?

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

@Zoltor - There's a show grid option of View... then to set grid size, go to Edit -> Preferences -> Grids


Assuming it has the same set-up as that of normal photoshop


And if ur copying terrain tiles, you can even make it without a grid since most terrain tiles fill the 32x32 square anyways

 

[Selchar]

Sheesh, so much discussion about making tilesets from pre-existing tilesets, talk of photoshop/gimp/paint.net. Why not just use some sort of map making program that allows using multiple tilesets, set the map size to say, 512x512(B tilesets example),and go from there? Much simpler, I just tested Tiled, and while some people use it for parralax mapping, it can also be easily used to easily mix/match existing tilesets.