Suggestions for the next RPG Maker

[whitesphere]

I would be willing to pay for 3D models, yeah it is more expensive than ordering a 2D graphics but how exactly that is a big deal? We have RPG Maker VX Ace that currently suffices fine for 2D development, especially after that High-res DLL file and scripts aimed for it.

Granted RPG Maker series became so popular thanks to easy to use for hobbyists who want to spend five minutes doing their game and then run it, still I don't see a problem offering alternatives, more specialized RPG Makers.

The problem is RPG Maker is already a very specialized sub-market in the "Game developer toolkit" marketplace.  There are a wide variety of toolkits which are completely open ended and many of which support a wide variety of platforms.  And the more specialized the market, the fewer potential customers there are for the produce, so Enterbrain would have to charge a lot more to cover development costs for such a specialized niche. 

Right now they have a nice little niche, and they do well in that very specialized niche (low cost RPG building toolkit).  And I think it serves them well to incrementally enhance what they have, to incorporate some of these key features to benefit their user base.

Once they charge a lot more for their product, though, they crash headlong into the other generalized toolkits, such as GameMaker, which costs $800 to export to, a huge number of platforms, including Windows, PlayStation 3 and 4, Mac, Ubuntu, iOS, Android. 

Basically, there are tons of pricier alternatives which are well entrenched in their markets.  Personally, I think they'd be committing economic suicide to try to compete in those markets, where they would need a HUGE investment up front and be entering a crowded marketplace with entrenched competitors.  So they're doing the right thing in NOT trying to compete in those markets.

 

[Heretic86]

...

What we only really need are some more basic stuff and the rest should be done by us.

+Like for that statement alone.

The difference between needing Paint, Brushes, and an empty Canvas vs Paint By Numbers.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

Plus not putting advanced stuff built-in allows people to make their own routes to make those stuff instead of requiring to follow a certain path.

 

[Tsukihime]

I would be willing to pay for 3D models, yeah it is more expensive than ordering a 2D graphics but how exactly that is a big deal? We have RPG Maker VX Ace that currently suffices fine for 2D development, especially after that High-res DLL file and scripts aimed for it.


Granted RPG Maker series became so popular thanks to easy to use for hobbyists who want to spend five minutes doing their game and then run it, still I don't see a problem offering alternatives, more specialized RPG Makers.

I agree. If RM supports 3D, that would be cool. It would also be cool if 3D-support meant improved performance in general.


I don't see a problem with there being 3D support. Don't like it? Don't know how to do it? Don't bother, just stick with 2D.


It's not like anyone's suggesting "please make RM a 3D-only engine"


There are plenty of free 3D assets. It is not a real issue for anyone that just wants to open a project and have a working game. The modding scene in various games have taken full advantage of in-game 3D character creators to quickly build and customize their own 3D characters and export it to tools like Garry's Mod or XNALara or w/e.


The engine could be made so that most of the work is done outside of the editor, and you use the editor to piece it together quickly like how it's done already. More work and expertise required, sure, but once it's done and you import it into the engine it'll just work. That is not much different from how RM works already.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

Making RM both a 2D and 3D supporting engine would probably make costs much higher than both either pure 2D or 3D... That I think is what most people are trying to avoid, having RM cost too much... That might be fine for the more hardcore developer, but for the non-so hardcore in which RM is advertised to target, that won't really be good.

Yeah it would be good to have support for both, but doing so will take a lot of effort in EB's side. Which as we said doesn't seem like a good choice for the company itself.

If they could make it without inflating the cost too high, it might work.

 

[Sharm]

Maybe I've just had bad luck but every 3D engine I've ever tried has been really awful to make 2D stuff in, introducing all sorts of strange errors when you try to do simple things like align pixels next to each other, and all the 3d stuff I've seen built onto 2d engines is mediocre at best. So in my experience, yeah, you really do have to chose between them.

 

[headdie]

I have to agree that adding a true 3D engine to the game would be a huge undertaking both for Enterbrain and content creators.  Perhaps as an alternative if EB could open up the interface so that a 3rd party 3D engine could be developed and bolted on by teams that seriously want to use 3D.

And I say Teams with good reason.  Having extended contact in the FreeSpace Open community I can tell you that 3D is a massive undertaking even when all the tools are in place compared to 2D.  With 2D to create assets you require 1 skillset, that of a graphics artist in the art style you want to achieve.  With 3D to make it look presentable you need a 3D modeling, often UV mapping, texture artist, and animator for anything that moves.  

Single people with all these skills exist certainly but are usually professionals or semi-professionals and in the amateur sector are a rare creature indeed.

Also 3D brings additional performance considerations when creating content relating to the rendering engine and understanding these limitations is a must for creating effective content.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

Maybe I've just had bad luck but every 3D engine I've ever tried has been really awful to make 2D stuff in, introducing all sorts of strange errors when you try to do simple things like align pixels next to each other, and all the 3d stuff I've seen built onto 2d engines is mediocre at best. So in my experience, yeah, you really do have to chose between them.

 
Somehow... Which is why I think Unity released Unity 2D for those who wants to make 2D instead of 3D...


And if we add both 2D and 3D into a single engine, then we would have loads on unnecessary stuff lying around.

With 3D to make it look presentable you need a 3D modeling, often UV mapping, texture artist, and animator for anything that moves.

Yeah, which is why in the Wc3 community, modelers have the highest rep points...

 

[TheoAllen]

I would not use RPG Maker if it's 3D. I simply use RPG Maker because it's 2D

 

[amerk]

At risk of sounding slightly off topic, I will say the one thing I liked most about RPG Maker 3 for the PS2 was the battle system, which looked more like something from Final Fantasy X.

I wouldn't mind staying with 2D, but then trying something a bit more 3D for the battle system, although I imagine this would be just as hard to pull off as trying to design another 2D RPG Maker. It felt really alive, compared to the stagnant frontview text default system.

 

[IRHP]

I'd happily pay a lot more for a more robust, more user-friendly RPGM.

Related, can we ever get another Fighting Game Maker, Visual Novel Maker, or a real portable RPGM or at least RPGM-Lite, such as for Vita/3DS?

 

[Sharm]

I think those were all phased out because of other programs doing it better for free. They stopped working on Fighting Game Maker because of M.U.G.E.N. There are many VN makers that are free, and the same with game makers.

 

[Clord]

There is also this approach where sprites are used in 3D surroundings.


From editing standpoint this would be very user friendly as only 3D thing would be the surroundings while characters, monsters, etc would be 2D. This is something early FPS games did.


Doom II is still very popular amongst modders (Simpsons Doom etc.)

 

[amerk]

Ability to designate who can use a particular item. So if you have bombs that can only be used by an alchemist (for example) you can select the alchemist as the designated user. If the entire party can use a particular item, have the option to select "Party".

More conditionals for events:

1. Conditionals based upon "Player Input". So if the player presses the action key on an event, the event may play out differently than if the player touches the event or if the event touches the player.

2. Skill Conditionals: Have an event (player touched) that tracks whether a certain skill is being used. This ties into the "Player Input" since the event would only track the skill after the player touches the event, but will only play out when the conditioned skill is used.

User Defined Quick Events:

In addition to the defaults, give the user several blank quick events so they can create their own quick events.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

RPGM-Lite, such as for Vita/3DS?

 
I won't consider an RM for those as Lite... If anything it might even be harder. Also, at least for Sony, I do think you need a developer license first before you can publish games for them.

There is also this approach where sprites are used in 3D surroundings.

 
Probably 2.5D, using some techniques to make an environment made from 2D sprites look 3D...

Ability to designate who can use a particular item. So if you have bombs that can only be used by an alchemist (for example) you can select the alchemist as the designated user. If the entire party can use a particular item, have the option to select "Party".

 
I'd say make "Item types" the same way as there are weapon and armor types... I just feel like it's better to set up what item types an actor/class can use instead of setting which users can use an item.

Conditionals based upon "Player Input". So if the player presses the action key on an event, the event may play out differently than if the player touches the event or if the event touches the player.

 
I'd say that is better put as "multiple event triggers".

2. Skill Conditionals: Have an event (player touched) that tracks whether a certain skill is being used. This ties into the "Player Input" since the event would only track the skill after the player touches the event, but will only play out when the conditioned skill is used.

 
Which means you also need to make skills usable on the map.


Or if it's the other thing I'm thinking, you could already do this via switches and common events. Have an event activate a switch which turns on a common event. Then have that skill activate another common event which turns on another switch which is then checked by the first common event. When that 2nd switch is ON, do whatever then turn it off again...


Else, I don't get it.

 

[amerk]

Which means you also need to make skills usable on the map.

This is what I meant. For when you want to use a field skill depending on your location. It came up in a sort of discussion recently, and the work around to use Common Events mixed with variables and where the player was standing, depending on how many maps the developer had, how many objects the skill could be used on, having the skill react when used on the correct object and a denial message if used on incorrect ones, etc., it boiled down to either needing a script to track this or making one heck of a long common event.

 

[Seacliff]

If they ever do make a 3D RPG maker, it better be a slightly-edited port of something simple, yet effective like RPG Maker 3 with things like importing files and the ability to upload games to download. Otherwise, I'm not touching it.

One the other hand, I really don't see THAT much more that needs to be added for a 2D RM maker. More event commands and better mapping options are the only things you need to add to ace.

 

[amerk]

One the other hand, I really don't see THAT much more that needs to be added for a 2D RM maker. More event commands and better mapping options are the only things you need to add to ace.

Primarily why I feel the focus needs to stay with enhancing the gameplay aspects versus the resources (or even trying to change from 2D to 3D). While I appreciate visual updates, I'm more interested in updating the editor in ways that can improve features from the map editor, events, database, and gameplay, preferably by adding things by default that are either not readily available by script or are currently very complicated even with a script.

 

[NeoPGX]

Just curious, is the development of VX Ace's successor underway yet? 

 

[Andar]

Just curious, is the development of VX Ace's successor underway yet?

No one knows for sure (or rather the ones who know didn't say so far), but I would doubt that.
They're currently working on a converter to allow Ace to export into several mobile systems (pre-alpha, almost nothing is known about it), and I really don't think they have the manpower to work on a new RM-generation at the same time (and it would be stupid to create a converter for Ace when the next RM is already in sight).