Suikoden 2 Like Battle System Without Using Plugins

[SinSilver]

I've been playing tons of JRPGS looking for a battle system I generally enjoyed and would mash well with my game. I recently played Suikoden 2and think I found the perfect match.


 What I'm most want to replicate without using a plugin is:


1. The 6 member Party


2. The Rune System


3. The Let Go function


4. The Leveling System

 

[Titanhex]

Modifying the Default Battle System and the Default Menus is impossible without a plugin, unfortunately.

The only way around that is to design your own battle system and create your own menus via eventing.
While this is possible, and I've done it before with varying levels of success, it is in no way a simple undertaking. In 75% of cases you are better off creating a plugin. The 20% exception are generally adventure-styled puzzle games. With a 5% exception for super simple rpgs, and I mean even simpler than Pokemon.


Further, are you sure you simply want to replicate? I don't blame you for wanting to imitate something people, including yourself, really enjoy. But The RPG Genre has arguably come a lot further beyond the Playstation 1 era.

 

[SinSilver]

Thanks for the feedback, I kind of figured it would be impossible to do with eventing but had my fingers cross that I would anyway. This is one of those moments where I wish I knew how to write code and design graphic art. I guess I'll just have to pay someone to do it for me.


I don't plan to do a full replication but plan to use the Suikoden 2 Battle System as more of a base for my battle system. I feel some of the mechanics of that battle system were perfect as is (the leveling system didn't require intensive grinding, the ability to escape from weaker enemies without failing, the 6 member party, and multiple characters attacking at once to speed up gameplay) but there are a lot of things I want to do differently including a more challenging battle system, different approached to defeating enemies, and bosses that adapt to the players strategy, characters with different in battle traits, and a more customizable magic system.


Again thanks for the feedback, it was most appreciated. 

 

[SinSilver]

Modifying the Default Battle System and the Default Menus is impossible without a plugin, unfortunately.

The only way around that is to design your own battle system and create your own menus via eventing.
While this is possible, and I've done it before with varying levels of success, it is in no way a simple undertaking. In 75% of cases you are better off creating a plugin. The 20% exception are generally adventure-styled puzzle games. With a 5% exception for super simple rpgs, and I mean even simpler than Pokemon.


Further, are you sure you simply want to replicate? I don't blame you for wanting to imitate something people, including yourself, really enjoy. But The RPG Genre has arguably come a lot further beyond the Playstation 1 era.





 

Also another battle system I thought about using as a base for my game was FF12 but with a lot more control over each character but I feel getting a plugin like that created would take a lot more work and cost a lot more money. Do you think that would be the case?

 

[Kes]

SinSilver, please avoid double posting, as it is against the forum rules. You can review our forum rules here. Thank you.


If you want to add something, just edit your previous post.


Also, please do not quote whole posts to indicate who you are answering, it makes scrolling down the page slow, especially for anyone accessing this on their phone.  If you want to make it clear who you are replying to, just use the @username convention. 


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Now for your question.


You have to use a plugin if you want to alter the number in the battle party.  Yanfly has one which does that.  You say that using a plugin will cost money - Yanfly's are free to use, even for commercial games.


As for you other points, as I have not played this particular game I cannot answer.  In threads like this it is much better to provide a brief description of what you are wanting, rather than saying "like in game XYZ" which rules out help from anyone who hasn't played it.


At the moment I'm thinking that this thread might be better in MV Support, but I'll wait and see how it develops.

 

[Titanhex]

There's a lot of things that are difficult about eventing an RPG. You have to event new skill and item menus, and new systems for those. You'll also need to event enemy A.I. and any party actions.
At that point, you're basically just psuedo-coding and you should just learn real coding.


You could use an Action Battle System to create an FF12 styled game, with various pieces of eventing to change how it flows and functions. Problem is, the only available ABS for MV is still pre-release and has a long ways to go.


VX Ace has a lot better of a selection, but is more outdated.

ksjp is correct in pointing out that Yanfly has a coding cornucopia of useful plugins that can allow powerful changes to the default engine. It's well recommended to use those as they're free and most of them are available for commercial use.

My biggest word of caution, and piece of advice is this:
You're thinking of features and how you want your battles to feel or play.
But a well-designed game evolves beyond this and encompasses the game's entire design into itself.


What this means is that the battles should always support the design of the game. If the game wants you to feel helpless in places, the combat should do that. Clever, the battle should allow cleverness. Rise of power, then players should feel that at each well-crafted milestone.


What does the FFX12 or Suikoden 2 battle systems offer to your over-all design besides being cool features?


Honestly, using the Default Battle System plus some free plugins, and then structuring the gameplay around your game's overarching design can prove more beneficial than haphazardly switching to a different system.
Nothing is a substitute for good design.

I imagine I'll be releasing design guides on top of a design service in the classified section within the week. Check them out when they're up.

 

[Kes]

This really does have to be moved, as it is effectively a "How do I...?" question.  However, it could go to one of two places.


If you really, really do not want to use plugins, it will go to MV support.


If you are prepared to use them, it will go to Plugin Requests.


Please confirm which you would like.


Thanks.

 

[YoraeRasante]

I thought Plugin Requests were for when we were asking for someone to create a new plugin for us?


I did not have the chance to play Suikoden yet, but through MV Support wouldn't he be able to find the plugin to use if it already exists before going for requesting one?


I remember seeing somewhere a plugin for rune-based magic, I think this may be like the Rune System he wants?

 

[mlogan]

Plugin Requests can be used to ask for help finding the best existing plugin as well, much like members can ask for help finding existing resources in Resource Requests.

 

[Arcmagik]

Yanfly has the ability to change the battle party to 6. Yanfly's plugins are free.


As for "Rune Magic" you have two options to emulate Suikoden's system. Victor Sant's MP Levels or Yanfly's Limited Use.


The Leveling System can be achieved with Mr Trivel's Static EXP or one of Yanfly's Parameter Plugins. As a bonus use Yanfly's Aftermath plugin to get a similar look to Suikoden's Aftermath.


As for the Let's Go function I am still working on that.


I'd provide but I am posting from my mobile device and my computers are several states away.

 

[mlogan]

Moving to Plugin Requests as you seem to realize it will take plugins to accomplish your goals and the discussion has turned into offering suggestions of available plugins that can be used.

 

[SinSilver]

@Arcmagik Thanks for the recommendations, I'm going to go check them out and see if I can use them for my project. 


@Titanhex Thanks for the advice. What I'm most looking to accomplish is a battle system that doesn't require hours of grinding and is the quick pace to make the gameplay easier for the player. The 6 member party might not be that big of an issue, but I since there will be several playable characters I wanted to give the player the opportunity to be able to use a good number of characters at once. Most of all I feel it would match 


If I was going to use something like FF12 battle system I would be looking to get the same things accomplished and also give the player  the ability to escape battles they don't  want to fight and give my game a more modern feel than the 4 member party. But as you pointed out it won't be possible to accomplish with MV at this time and feel it wouldn't be worth the effort to implement. Also when I really think of it the FF12 battle system wouldn't effectively fit in with my story.


But I'm actually going to think about what you said about just using the default battle system and think of ways I can make that more unique myself instead of changing the system almost completely. 

 

[Titanhex]

More unique is a bonus, but shouldn't be your focus.
You can find lots of little plugins to the DBS that can be combined to create a battle system that stands out from others, but that's pointless if the battle system does not support the design.

The Design is most inherent from the way you want the player to feel during key points of your game, or throughout the game itself.

Spoiler

If I wanted players to feel more powerful while going through a dungeon, I could take multiple routes. I could put a marginally stronger item in the dungeon, give them a shop with much better items in the town before the dungeon that they'll be able to afford while going through the dungeon, or determine the average level they'll start the dungeon at and give them a skill at a particular level they'll get while going through the dungeon that will allow them to complete it.


This would give the player a strong sense of accomplishment and compel them to keep playing to become more powerful.


If I want the player to feel helpless, I could defeat them at a pivotal point and then progress the story along that line, or give the player multiple options that all obviously lead to the same outcome.



The battles can support the over-arching theme present in a chapter of the game. Helplessness. Freedom. Power. Or the transition from mundane to fantastical in how I design the beasts or how I introduce more complex elements. "Magic is just a legend" to "Magic is very real." Can be expressed in fascinating parts of gameplay. As can be "Power as an extension of self" vs "Power as an extension of Tools."
You can also express thematic elements through different gameplay. Man vs Man, Man vs Society, and Man vs Nature can be expressed through combat. Previous installments of the Final Fantasy series has done this well. Chrono Trigger heavily emphasized man vs nature.

What I'm saying is, the battle system deserves consideration. Suikodens battle system worked for it because the battle system was a very large part of the design of Suikoden (Runes and tons of Party Members supported the Castle System, the narrative about the Runes, and the Man vs Society theme). Is Suikoden's battle system really right for your design?


Whatever BS you pick, it should feed into the design of your game and support the narrative at every stage. Its grinding if it doesn't serve the design of the game.


Also, now that this is in script requests, this probably isn't the place to discuss these things further. If you want to discuss them, a new thread should be created on this subject in the Design forum.