[Survey] [USA]WRPG & [Eastern]JRPG Player's Experience

Kupotepo

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In the past, people did talk about the distinctions of those RPG and definition of them.
Today, I would like to do an observation of the player's experience in general.

Yes, there are many possibilities but, I think of those preferences out from my head right now. Please say something outside the box. I encourage and appreciate that creativity from you.

This just generality of your choices:
  1. Direct experience [Role Playing] or Indirect experience [Storytelling]
  2. Open World approach or Storyline approach
  3. The first person experience like Mass Effect The front view of RPG maker or The Elder Scroll [MMRORPG]/ the side view battle Fire Emblem [TRPG]
  4. The pre-determined main protagonists or the customization of the main characters
  5. Real-time combat in the map or the battle system like RPG maker default lol
  6. So I think it is a cultural interpretation of contextualizing. Would you like to call a class of a fighter a warrior or a samurai? Would you call the hitman thief or ninja?
  7. How do you generally play games?
  8. Are you playing one game for a long time or you prefer to play one game in a short time?

STORYTELLING:
Western RPGs often give the player a single, fully customizable avatar. This avatar will often end up meeting other characters along the way, who will join their crew and form bonds with them. Eventually, this team will progress through the main story (and many side quests).

Japanese RPGs have the player is given a predefined main character — or a group of main characters — who joins a larger party of characters with relatively even importance. The story is a quest to save the world from the ultimate evil, as the player watches the party grow and guides them on their path to victory.

WORLD BUILDING AND ART STYLE:
Western RPGs often follow a more clear format when creating fantasy and science fiction settings. There will normally be clear Lord of the Rings influences in the former, with species such as orcs, dragons and elves, while the latter will feature influences from classic science fiction such as Star Trek. The politics of these worlds tends to be very believable, the design of the enemies and races realistic, and the games in many cases attempt to immerse players in worlds that could actually exist.

Japanese RPGs don’t tend to follow any particular influence, aside from a general anime style, with fantasy settings that include all sorts of different races and factions. This leads to unique worlds that are much less grounded in reality. JRPG developers often focus on trying to create breathtaking, beautiful worlds with interesting backstories, rather than create realistic settings.

Character Tropes: Many JRPG games borrow heavily from anime/manga tropes and from Japanese and Chinese mythology. Many WRPG games borrow heavily from European mythology. However, I observed that both genres seem to like technologies RPG with science fiction/ science-based.


What do you like in the general? [I understand you like both of those types of games.] The variety of games is really difficult to pick one genre.]

JRPGs usually focus on:
Character Development
Promotion of Traditional RPG Classes like 3 basic classes.
Sometimes makes the player go through a long grind fest. [I think it is just bad design in general.]

WRPGs usually focus on:
More Open World
Focus on the side quests
Less to no Character Development [Focus on killing monsters and explore the landmass.]
:esad:

The devs' notes: we are tried to always broke the constriction of RPG and common characters as possible.

Look at the big game companies around the world:
South Korea: NetEase
China: Tencent Holdings Ltd
Japan: Nintendo, Sony Computer Entertainment, Sega Games Co. Ltd, Square Enix Holdings Co. Ltd, and Bandai Namco, and Capcom Company Ltd
US: Valve Corporation, Rockstar Games, Electronic Arts, Activision Blizzard, Naughty Dog Inc, Bungie Inc,
Obsidian Entertainment and Microsoft Corporation
France: Ubisoft
Canada: BioWare
Poland: CD Projekt
Belgium: Larian Studios
 
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Frostorm

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JRPGs generally favor storytelling, whereas WRPGs favor roleplaying. I actually prefer elements of both, but it's not always easy to execute well. Here's a really old series on JRPG vs WRPG by Extra Credits (3 part series): www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_rvM6hubs8

First-person should be reserved for FPS, which can also be an RPG like Mass Effect. Everything else, third-person. I don't really like side-view for some reason... I can put up w/ Fire Emblem since it's a quick scene of just the attack while the meat of the game is in a zoomed out God's eye view of the battlefield. MMOs are fun, but I get burnt out from time to time since they often become like a job (played WoW since Nov2004).

Btw, what's the "[E]" in front of JRPG on your thread title supposed to represent? Is it for Europe? Cuz last I checked, Japan wasn't a part of Europe lol.
 

Kupotepo

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@Frostorm, It is funny. You read my mind. I just finished watching the Extra Credit videos about the topic.

Btw, what's the "[E]" in front of JRPG on your thread title supposed to represent? Is it for Europe? Cuz last I checked, Japan wasn't a part of Europe lol.
Sorry, I meant it means the Eastern part of the world.

played WoW since Nov2004
It is true about the really endless open world of Wow. It is feeling tired when playing for a long time.
 
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woootbm

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Not sure I agree with these distinctions. Here are what I'd say are the core differences:

JRPG's:
Grinding for levels/items
Combat based around slow attrition
Pretty teens saving the world from God
Text that is overlong due to complete lack of succinctness

WRPG's:
Tactical combat, usually involving positioning (grouping, tanking, LoS, friendly-fire, etc)
Scouring for plot-related clues
Grimy folks in a grimy world just trying to get by
Text that is overlong due to obsession with lore


What's all this about JRPG's being more about story and characters? Y'all never play BioWare games? Really don't agree with this since JRPG's are so paper thin on those two. Just because it takes people in a JRPG a 10 minute cutscene to explain 2 sentences worth of information, that doesn't it make it more story oriented. (like this scene in Persona 5, it takes 4 minutes for these two to say, "hey let's fight": )

It's also worth noting that JRPG's tend to outright type out character thoughts, while WRPG's will try to convey that more subtly, like through character actions.
 

Kupotepo

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@wootbm, that is why I tried not to get an authoritative definition of those two RPGs. I am honestly confused about who to listen to. I agree with you WRPG games tried to focus on the realism narrative of the RPG aspect, the JRPG focus on the beautiful environment and focus silliness to make games more entertaining. It is just people tried group stuff together like offline and online games. All RPG games have something unique for players. I just tried to find the pattern because there are no definite facts right now. :aswt:

I focus on the player preference which is like personal opinions.

Y'all never play BioWare games?
No lol
 
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woootbm

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Oh, yeah I should probably answer the original topic. Heh, whoops. Sorry :hswt:

Probably obvious that I favor WRPG's. I played through FF7, which I didn't care for, and Tales of Symphonia (which I liked a lot... but all the Tales games are the same). Annnnd I pretty much have been turned off JRPG's forever. I have a brother who loves them, so when I lived with him I watched him play a lot. Really made me shake my head constantly.

WRPG's aren't perfect, though. There's certainly a lot of flaws many of them haven't ever gotten out of. I recently played Elex and dear lord what a piece of work.

I also don't understand the enemies in JRPG's. You spend so much time fighting little animals, slimes, abstract shapes, and it seems like you're usually not killing things. You, uh, stab things in the face non-lethally, apparently. That all hurts any kind of immersion.
 

Frostorm

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Sorry, by storytelling, I meant linear storytelling for JRPGs. Whereas WRPGs also focus on storytelling (all RPGs do actually), they usually do it in a more non-linear fashion. Take Skyrim, Mass Effect, or KotOR for example. Their stories include lots of side quests and exploration, or in the case of KotOR, you can complete the various planets in any order you wish.
Text that is overlong due to complete lack of succinctness
This might simply be a localization issue since Japanese kanji can fit a lot more meaning in a single character, so when translated to English, it expands to a really long paragraph.

I think the real defining difference between the two genres is the CHARACTERS, specifically the main player character/protagonist. In JRPGs, it is usually set in stone allowing you a name change at best. The story usually ties in heavily to this character, making custom character creation relatively unfitting. In contrast, WRPGs are all about roleplaying, as in, you play as yourself. Hence the prevalence of character creation and customization in WRPGs. This naturally lends itself to more open-ended game design.

I used to prefer JRPGs more as a kid, but as time went on, I favored WRPGs more and more, at least the more modern ones. Ideally, though, I prefer a blend of the 2. (I especially like grinding) Some of the most memorable and favorite RPGs I've played were titles like Pokemon, Final Fantasy Tactics and Golden Sun, the latter of which I still consider one of the best RPGs of all time. Modern JRPGs simply don't do it for me, however, whereas modern WRPGs like the aforementioned Skyrim, Mass Effect, and KotOR were absolutely awesome! Plus titles like Divinity Original Sin 1 & 2 for the WRPG category and the Disgaea series for the JRPG camp.
Probably obvious that I favor WRPG's.
Have you played any of the Golden Sun series? I can't imagine any RPG fan not liking it... I agree with you in regards to the Persona games though, they don't really entice me in any way.
Tactical combat, usually involving positioning (grouping, tanking, LoS, friendly-fire, etc)
Final Fantasy Tactics, enough said. Or the Fire Emblem series. Imo, JRPGs literally invented the tactical RPG genre lol.

I know this sounds like I'm favoring JRPGs, but I'm really not. I just wanted to give credit where its due. WRPGs have only recently gotten good (as in within the last 15-20 years), while I feel like JRPGs have stagnated since the late 90s / 2000s.
 
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PixeLockeT

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jRPGs: Strong immediate storylines and set character development. Mostly linear, with some sandbox/branches if the dev desires, but these often are a backseat to the linear-type plot. Stylized gfx rather than realism, focuses on storytelling/character arcs rather than visuals. Combat is more about planning/grinding/strategy than all-out action. (varies)
wRPGs: Very little actual immediately storytelling, more about world/lore stuff "the history of things" and you're just "a part". Lots of side quests and fillers. "You" in the world. GFX intensive "super immersion" and takes focus over all else besides maybe gameplay/combat. Action combat-heavy. (varies)

Over years of playing RPGs of all types these seem to be the things that stick out most to me. I prefer jRPGs because of their strong narrative focus. But can enjoy both (depending).
 

Frostorm

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@PixeLockeT Bioware does a really good job with storytelling in their games though. As for graphics, I think that has more to do with the game's generation/recency than what genre it is. I mean look at the graphics for the remade FF7! (or any recent Square-Enix title)
 

TWings

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In both case it's about playing a Role and follow a global story frame.
I feel WRPG are coming from old board RPG like D&D where you have more freedom and are actually making your own story content within the world lore, while JRPG are more like a books with some interactive content (mostly battles).

That beeing said it's getting way more mixed nowdays. There are WRPG with great story lines as there are JRPG bringing in more freedom.
Eventually the only real difference left is that JRPG tend to go for a "cute" design.
 

kirbwarrior

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In normal situations, I'd usually break this up as TB and A (Turn-based vs Action) RPGS, but I think the distinction of where it is made is more the point here. And on that note, overwhelmingly jrpg. It's no contest;
Grimy folks in a grimy world just trying to get by
I've never understood the need for games to be 'realistic'. And worse, usually when people say that they mean 'the worst and most depressing part of reality'. WRPGs usually fall into one of three categories; Characters that are so boring that I don't care what happens, characters that are actually realistic to the point of 'Why would I want to play a game about how I'm going to have to deal with tomorrow morning?", and "There is no hope, there is no making things better or even worthwhile, this game is just forcing me to partake in making things worse". Now, of course, I don't mean all. I'm certain there are western-made rpgs that I like and just didn't pay attention to where they were made. But a big thing is that a 'relatable' or three-dimensional character doesn't need to be realistic. It doesn't need to be someone I could theoretically run into.

Second, WRPGs seem far more likely to try to promise "choice". And with it, I get excited. I can play a character how I want, make the choices I want, do what I- Oh, they didn't actually program that in? I like to call out Skyrim in particular for this problem, but a lot of WRPGs suffer from this. The game pretends to give me a choice on how to fight, but no matter what I pick the end result is basically the same; Figure out optimal distance from target, strafe, press attack button. The game pretends to give choice in how to solve a conflict, but it's often either a single choice ("Kill the vampire lord, it's the only way!") or a heavy-handed binary choice. The game pretends to have huge, sprawling dungeons, but most are walking through a hallways with slight offshoots, beat boss, grab treasure, exit handy egress. Where is my option to fight a boss with diplomacy? Where is my choice to avoid killing by stealing head shots so people don't know who they are after? Where is my choice to join the bandits or hand over some money so I can explore their land? How many of my choices will enact real change on the world? Many of these games feel even more restricted than the more linear games that let me do plenty without breaking character with the protagonist. In fact, for a long time I didn't think open world rpgs could be done well.

Third, I generally prefer the puzzle side of things, leaning more to TRPGs than anything, then TBRPG. Not to say I don't like ARPGs, I think Secret of Mana was actually really fun (but I don't think I'd play it again, definitely far too grindy).

Mind, that doesn't mean jrpgs have no flaws. There are some I absolutely avoid because they ask for lots of grinding (which is far less than people seem to think in my experience). There are some that have abysmally boring combat (push A a lot to win is bad, but "push A, then Y, then Down, then A to win every fight" are even worse). But I think the really big thing going for them is the sense that I have a reason to be there (you know, playing the game) and that something will come of it.

But you know what? I want to be wrong. I love the idea of open world and choice. I know grim stories and games can and do work. I look forward to the day that I can actually make and play any given character in a game.

Have you played any of the Golden Sun series? I can't imagine any RPG fan not liking it...
My apologies for breaking your imagination. That series is a giant tell of how games were going to become graphics-focused over anything resembling difficulty and coherent writing. Mind, I do wonder how much of that was localization and how much was the original script. I should get japanese copies.

the battle system like RPG maker default lol
I actually like front view battles, but I do think that the way it works in RPG Maker is terrible. I'm still looking for a way to make it pleasing and clear what is going on.

Minor gripe; I definitely don't like First Person in an rpg. It's very immersion breaking.
 

Frostorm

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That series is a giant tell of how games were going to become graphics-focused over anything resembling difficulty and coherent writing.
Sorry, I don't follow. The Golden Sun series had terrible graphics, they were GBA games for crying out loud lol. Plus I've yet to encounter an RPG with better puzzles, or at least in the sense of environmental interaction via skills you'd normally use in combat, which is a feature I wish was more commonplace. I admit Golden Sun 3 was pretty lackluster though...

Minor gripe; I definitely don't like First Person in an rpg. It's very immersion breaking.
Yea even Mass Effect I played in 3rd person instead of 1st person, despite being a FPS.
 

FirestormNeos

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Not sure I agree with these distinctions. Here are what I'd say are the core differences:

JRPG's:
Grinding for levels/items
Combat based around slow attrition
Pretty teens saving the world from God
Text that is overlong due to complete lack of succinctness

WRPG's:
Tactical combat, usually involving positioning (grouping, tanking, LoS, friendly-fire, etc)
Scouring for plot-related clues
Grimy folks in a grimy world just trying to get by
Text that is overlong due to obsession with lore
So what kind of RPG would "Tactical combat, usually around predicting the enemy's behavioral pattern and punishing accordingly." "Plain-looking, cautiously-optimistic college-aged folks being hunted down by-- and then hunting down for petty revenge --a dictator." "Text is overlong due to cramming in as much character development/interaction and political themes into every conversation as possible" be, then?

I've never understood the need for games to be 'realistic'. And worse, usually when people say that they mean 'the worst and most depressing part of reality'. WRPGs usually fall into one of three categories; Characters that are so boring that I don't care what happens, characters that are actually realistic to the point of 'Why would I want to play a game about how I'm going to have to deal with tomorrow morning?", and "There is no hope, there is no making things better or even worthwhile, this game is just forcing me to partake in making things worse". Now, of course, I don't mean all. I'm certain there are western-made rpgs that I like and just didn't pay attention to where they were made. But a big thing is that a 'relatable' or three-dimensional character doesn't need to be realistic. It doesn't need to be someone I could theoretically run into.
Thank you for summing up my grievances with a lot of post-9/11 western media in a nutshell.
 

Kupotepo

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I think the term realistic in the RPG games is different than the common term. It means to do hard work and tried to due diligence with the game such as playtesting to make sure everything operating ok. No, toilet system or paying taxes system here for me.
However, the art style meant tried to make 3d art and try make the arts look like us in real world. [It is just a weird professional code language lol.]
 
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RachelTheSeeker

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I honestly don't get any debate on Western RPGs over Japanese RPGs. Why not enjoy different media for different reasons? I do that with every edition of D&D! As far as I'm concerned, the general differences between JRPGs vs WRPGs to me are...

JRPGs
  • Main characters are named, and not often customizable; the character themselves matter more than stats, classes, etc
  • "Soft" worldbuilding, where much is left to the imagination and is fanciful
  • More lighthearted, usually rated Teen; darker settings have character-driven comic relief with the playable character and/or NPCs, etc
  • Almost always fantasy, or some mixed genre including fantasy (Weird West vibes from Wild ARMs, gonzo Americana with psionics for Mother / Earthbound, space opera science-fantasy for Phantasy Star)
  • Usually turn-based combat, with or without real-time command options
  • Often don't have "skills" or items for overworld travel outside of keys and other gating McGuffins, with exceptions (Breath of Fire, Suito Homu / Sweet Home, certain spells and item in Dragon Quest, etc etc)
  • Common mechanics were based off Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy, the former having simplified inspiration from Wizardry and Ultima
  • A party-based affair, usually three or four heroes you control at one time, and can swap party members throughout the game

WRPGs
  • Main characters are self-inserts or otherwise blank-slates, and very customizable; stats, classes, etc matter more than the character outside of dialog choices
  • "Hard" worldbuilding that explains nuances to the setting, relevant to the gameplay or not, unless you're playing a blobber like Wizardry
  • More serious, usually rated M; comic relief often relies on pop culture references or in-world, self-aware silliness
  • Is more willing to branch out to other genres, such as post-apocalyptic (Fallout), sci-fi (Mass Effect), etc
  • Can have turn-based combat, but many involve a grid-map for battles, and is more willing to have action or FPS elements
  • Characters often have skills to interact with the game world more than a JRPG: speech, lockpicking, stealing, sneaking, etc
  • Common mechanics were based off tabletop RPGs (Wizardry plays like an AD&D dungeon crawl, and Fallout was originally going to be based in GURPS)
  • Party sizes can go beyond four, but many are also single-character affairs, with or without AI companions
Of course, there are games that blur the line between these stereotypes. I like it when JRPGs allow for custom-made, customizable parties with little story (Etrian Odyssey); I like it when WRPGs have more character-driven narrative (Dragon Age).
 

Kupotepo

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Sorry, everyone. I should not distract myself. I do not know why scientists classified organisms into (Animalia, Plantae, Fungi, Protista, Archaea/Archaebacteria, and Bacteria/Eubacteria). I do not why biologists came up with The hierarchy of biological classification's eight major taxonomic ranks. I think it is fun and educational, but I do not think it serves the useful purpose of improvement of a player's experience.

I am more concerned about your playing experience. Sorry for the distraction of references.

  1. Direct experience [Role Playing] or Indirect experience [Storytelling]
  2. Open World approach or Storyline approach
  3. The first person experience like Mass Effect The front view of RPG maker or The Elder Scroll [MMRORPG]/ the side view battle Fire Emblem [TRPG]
  4. The pre-determined main protagonists or the customization of the main characters
  5. Real-time combat in the map or the battle system like RPG maker default lol
  6. So I think it is a cultural interpretation of contextualizing. Would you like to call a class of a fighter a warrior or a samurai? Would you call the hitman thief or ninja?
  7. How do you generally play games?
  8. Are you playing one game for a long time or you prefer to play one game in a short time?
 
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Frostorm

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To be honest, the true defining difference between JRPGs and WRPGs is simply that JRPGs are made in Japan while WRPGs are made in North America or Europe (or any "western" country), hence why they are called JRPGs & WRPGs respectively. Imagine if an RPG that was made in Japan used design choices typically attributed to WRPGs, would it still be labeled a JRPG? How about vise versa?

Side note: Archaea/Archaebacteria are actually single-cellular, not multicellular. :p
 

Kupotepo

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Side note: Archaea/Archaebacteria are actually single-cellular, not multicellular. :p
lol:guffaw: @Archeia, so she is a single-cell organism. Good to know.

Anyhow, please answer the questions.
 
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kirbwarrior

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The Golden Sun series had terrible graphics, they were GBA games for crying out loud lol.
They were very fantastic for a GBA and honestly still look good. Like, a lot of effort was put into them. Mind, it does help that spritework generally looks better on the small screen. When you look at videos and/or emulation, most GBA games will look worse.
Plus I've yet to encounter an RPG with better puzzles, or at least in the sense of environmental interaction via skills you'd normally use in combat, which is a feature I wish was more commonplace.
Most puzzles were some combination of "guess the elemental combination", "run around here and back", and "get another key item to be allowed to do this". However, the sense of interacting with environment was definitely a great idea and I feel should be used more often.
I honestly don't get any debate on Western RPGs over Japanese RPGs. Why not enjoy different media for different reasons?
To me it is a part of finding out why you enjoy each is seeing a discussion over them. Design practices, cultural phenomena, and general philosophy going into the making of the games can help both as a player and a developer in how to understand how you enjoy games.
 

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