Synergistic & Lenticular Design

Frostorm

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Some of the most interesting and innovative games allow the player to utilize the tools/skills available to them in such a way to obtain a result greater than the sum of its parts. I'd like to see not just some examples of this in your games, but more importantly the process/methodology you use to achieve it. I will start with some examples from my current project:

Multi-elemental interactions:
  • "Damp" state guarantees chance to be Paralyzed or Frozen
  • "Tar" state guarantees chance to be Burned
  • "Stagger" state guarantees chance to be Stunned
Stat/build synergies:
  • Strength increases not just physical damage but also Critical Strike multiplier.
  • Skills in Great Weaponry (a Strength-based tree) offer ways to land crits without relying on Dexterity.
    • Sharpen Blade - Increases Armor Penetration and Critical Strike chance by 15% but decreases by 3% for every melee attack you land.
    • Berserking - Increases Critical Strike chance by 100% for 2 turns but increases all mana costs & physical damage taken by 100%.
    • Brutality - (Passive) Increases physical Critical Strike chance of melee attacks by 5% after every non-critical melee attack. Resets upon landing a Critical Strike.
  • Archers typically don't pursue Intellect, however, this simple passive makes hybrid Archer/Caster builds more viable.
    • Careful Aim - (Passive) Ranged physical damage is also increased by Intellect.
  • Armor/Constitutionis a defensive stat, however, this skill utilizes it in its damage formula.
    • Shield Bash - Deals moderate Blunt damage and Staggers the target.
      Formula: (a.def + a.atk + a.atk) / 1.5
  • The Fisticuffs tree utilizes "Pressure Points" (a state which can stack up to 5 times) to increase the duration or effectiveness of secondary effects of other skills.
    • Pressure Strike - Deals light Pierce damage and adds 1 Pressure Point onto the target.
    • Throat Jab - Silences the target for X turns. X = stacks of Pressure Point.
    • Kidney Shot - X × 20% chance to Stun the target for 2 turns. X = stacks of Pressure Point.
I'm sure the lot of you can come up with way better ideas than me! :kaopride:
 
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Finnuval

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Not having a project that has any of this at the moment however I do want to chip in on the 'multi elemental interactions' and note that I live it when it is worked out to a degree that it actually adds a level off tactics to a game, among other things by also having possibly Positive effects in the enemy.

One such example could be an enemy with the state 'bleeding' that gets 'frozen' and thus loses the 'bleeding' state or an enemy that has 'burn' that dissapates due to being hit with a water element. That kind of thing xD

And thats all from me xD
 

Devildimos

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This is going deep.
I am a DM in D&D so I got too much of this kind of stuff.
*grabs his DM Book*

Parameters
I will keep this in my language of status.
Strength : When it comes to strength I like to see not only damage in the game. But more map mechanics. Like athletics allowing you to take shortcuts or pushing boulders depending on your strength. Basically obstacles that don't stop the story. But forces to take a different path in the story.
Intelligence : Logical you would say this is the magic idea but it is also the knowledge of your mind outside battle. Giving you a bit of advantage in puzzles or even outsmart npc in your game. Giving small hints to your players with sparkle effects depending on the intelligence of the player. You can do so to much.
Dexterity : Don't get to hasty on this. Because people tent to make this a OP Parameter. On the map I would go wild on this. Lock picking, Balancing on ropes for other shortcuts, disarm traps and even reducing fall damage.
Constitution : This is a great way to resist state effects and keep up a fight. This is also a good way to keep magic in balance. Magic consumes a lot of energy to cast a spell but being able to withstand that energy. Let us say, it would reduce mana cost. Allowing you to cast the spell more often.
Willpower : It is hard to explain it but I would call it Wisdom and wisdom allows you to see the world in another way. Increasing sight and awareness of encounters, spotting traps easier and so forth.

With parameters I would always make sure that any class can use all the parameters in a certain way so that they don't have useless parameter. A Mage focusing Dexterity and Intellect would be a speedy mage, right? Or a Barbarian with Strength and Willpower would be a very wise strong arm. Give that option to the player to use a class and design it in their play style.
I would also make more use of it outside battle as it can make the player feel that they are focusing on that class or play-style.


State Effects
Let us not get to overwhelming here. But if you say
""Tar" state guarantees chance to be Burned" Than the Tar effect would also reduce Speed.
Like "Web" would do the same. Paralysis and guarantees chance to be burned.
"Frozen" Unable the subject to move, Reduces all physical damage taken but taking fire damage removes the frozen state.
"Entangled" the subject can't reach an enemy. But can still use range and spells. It would be the same as Silence but for melee classes instead.
Another funny thing you could annoy with is to make some states last out side battle. Like silence. Disallowing your player to talk to NPC for the duration. Fun stuff but can be too much :p
You can make multi effects for states. But will you be able to explain the player all that?
You must keep in mind that a player should know all this one way or another.
I for example made actual books in my game that literally teaches the player that you can do certain things with states or that they increase certain stuff. Like a hint or something.


The Fisticuffs remind me of world of warcraft the rogue and I can almost see that, that was your main class :p
It is a great system but in a turn based game it can be frustrating because battles might only last a few turns. Unless your battles last long enough turns to play out the combo points.

I won't explain everything here. But if you like to know more just poke me and we could go deeper in my book :p
 

Finnuval

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Another funny thing you could annoy with is to make some states last out side battle.
This in games usually is a very bad idea lol
There are plenty of games that do this with the Posion state... Just ask around how many ppl enjoy that though :p

As for the comlexity of the player being able to follow it, well aslong as you use RL logic you can go a long way.

Lightning will worrk better when someone is wet, fire burns on dry or flamable, off you are entangled or stunned you can't run away... These are all pretty basic logic and thus easy enough for the player to grasp even in larger numbers.

Just dont get to obscure or have water and wet do different things completly lol
 

Frostorm

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One such example could be an enemy with the state 'bleeding' that gets 'frozen' and thus loses the 'bleeding' state or an enemy that has 'burn' that dissapates due to being hit with a water element. That kind of thing xD
Those are neat ideas, I actually already have the fire attacks remove the 'frozen' state and turn 'damp' to steam. Ima have to ninja your bleed idea if you don't mind lol.

With parameters I would always make sure that any class can use all the parameters in a certain way so that they don't have useless parameter.
Yes, exactly! That's the philosophy I use when defining my parameters (a lot of the stuff for my parameters was left out of my OP, for sake of the topic). I totally agree every stat should be useful.

""Tar" state guarantees chance to be Burned" Than the Tar effect would also reduce Speed.
Like "Web" would do the same. Paralysis and guarantees chance to be burned.
"Frozen" Unable the subject to move, Reduces all physical damage taken but taking fire damage removes the frozen state.
"Entangled" the subject can't reach an enemy. But can still use range and spells. It would be the same as Silence but for melee classes instead.
Yes, my states do indeed do those things, I simply didn't mention it. (my post would be waaay too long if I went and explained each one in detail)

The Fisticuffs remind me of world of warcraft the rogue and I can almost see that, that was your main class :p
Good eye, that's basically where I got the idea from. (played Wow since Nov2004 lol) My game is a tactical RPG and enemies will definitely take more than 2 hits to kill. Somewhere around 5-6 actions for an enemy of equal level. Also, no random encounters, they are all visible on the map with a certain aggro radius. Combat initiates seamlessly without transferring to a different scene/map.

Edit: On a side note, I'm considering renaming "Kidney Shot" to "Kidney Punch" so it's not a total ripoff of WoW lol. But the former sounds so much cooler...
 
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Finnuval

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Those are neat ideas, I actually already have the fire attacks remove the 'frozen' state and turn 'damp' to steam. Ima have to ninja your bleed idea if you don't mind lol.
Haha you are welcome to it xD
If you ever wanna brainstorm on more of those Just Shoot me a PM... Got plenty more of those haha
 

Frostorm

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How do you guys come up with ideas for these mechanics? Do you have a certain methodology/process or is it just a collection of epiphanies?
 

TheoAllen

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Irrelevant nitpick from your post but please do not use black/dark color. It's almost unreadable in website dark mode. Even better if you don't even use color at all.
 

Finnuval

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How do you guys come up with ideas for these mechanics? Do you have a certain methodology/process or is it just a collection of epiphanies?
Creating worlds is a hobby lol
Comming up with mechanics to make it work Just comes with that I guess xD

I guess you could say its a collection of Epiphanies gathered over 3 decades :D
 

Devildimos

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You could name it Knuckle Strike or Knuckle Punch.
As it is a karate term of as punch to stop a target for a few seconds. ;)
 

Devildimos

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How do you guys come up with ideas for these mechanics? Do you have a certain methodology/process or is it just a collection of epiphanies?
I am a living rpg world... I am a DM for D&D so I come up with stuff instantly. :p
 

Frostorm

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Irrelevant nitpick from your post but please do not use black/dark color. It's almost unreadable in website dark mode. Even better if you don't even use color at all.
Fixed for your convenience. My bad, I didn't realize dark mode was a thing lol.

I guess you could say its a collection of Epiphanies gathered over 3 decades :D
I haven't even lived 3 decades yet lol. Not for another 2 months at least...

@Devildimos I especially like your idea of utilizing stats out of combat. I had considered using Strength for pushing boulders for example but was on the edge on whether to implement it or not. If I did, that means I'd have to utilize all the other stats in some way out of combat. Can't play favorites ya know!

Edit:
"Frozen" Unable the subject to move, Reduces all physical damage taken but taking fire damage removes the frozen state.
This is one thing I've been on the fence about... If you're encased in ice then this makes sense, but if your body is simply frozen without a substantial amount of mass (ice) layered on top, then it makes more sense to increase physical damage taken, due to being more brittle. What do you guys think?
 
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Devildimos

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@Frostorm It is only a scratch on the surface.
There is so much you can do and I would help with it all if you like.
But hey. easily said than done ;)
 

Finnuval

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This is one thing I've been on the fence about... If you're encased in ice then this makes sense, but if your body is simply frozen without a substantial amount of mass (ice) layered on top, then it makes more sense to increase physical damage taken, due to being more brittle. What do you guys think?
Well it depends in what you want to do haha
Frozen could even increase defense instead (ever tried breaking a block off ice? lol) so it really depends

At the same time it could also cause a delay in spellcasting (if you are cold you stutter more), do damage over time (frostbite) and so on.
 

Devildimos

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"Berserking - Increases Critical Strike chance by 100% for 2 turns but increases all mana costs & physical damage taken by 100%."

I'll be honest with you. I would slightly change this.
Are you using TP or Rage?
If so. I would do it something like this.
"Increases Critical Strike chance by 75% but silence you & physical damage taken by 50%. Consumes 15TP/RG every turn. Lasts until TP/RG reaches 0"
This way you could give the option to the player to keep berserking and disallow spells to cast. Because how can you be in so much anger and cast a spell that needs concentration. :kaojoy:


This is one thing I've been on the fence about... If you're encased in ice then this makes sense, but if your body is simply frozen without a substantial amount of mass (ice) layered on top, then it makes more sense to increase physical damage taken, due to being more brittle. What do you guys think?
You could add more frozen like states.
Lets say.
Chilled = Reduces speed.
Ice Snare / Frozen Snare = Only the legs are frozen disallowing for melee attacks.
Frozen Solid = The whole body is frozen like a stun.
This way you could add a ice stack mechanic :p
 
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Finnuval

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Because how can you be in so much anger and cast a spell that needs concentration
That is if casting spells is a learned ability and not an innate skill though. A born mage would prolly need to concentrate NOT to cast a meteor on you ass when angered xD

So that kinda comes down to worldbuilding first
 

Devildimos

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That is if casting spells is a learned ability and not an innate skill though. A born mage would prolly need to concentrate NOT to cast a meteor on you ass when angered xD

So that kinda comes down to worldbuilding first
True. I was to fixed on the Barbarian class in D&D with Rage.
 

Finnuval

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True. I was to fixed on the Barbarian class in D&D with Rage.
I figured as much lol

Sure a barbarian would go silent when enraged... Well not really, he'd prolly scream... A lot! XD

But a mage with rage? Totally different beast hahha

Also having a 'slap attack' would be hilarious to cancel Rage state lol
 

Frostorm

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I'll be honest with you. I would slightly change this.
Are you using TP or Rage?
If so. I would do it something like this.
"Increases Critical Strike chance by 75% but silence you & physical damage taken by 50%. Consumes 15TP/RG every turn. Lasts until TP/RG reaches 0"
This way you could give the option to the player to keep berserking and disallow spells to cast. Because how can you be in so much anger and cast a spell that needs concentration. :kaojoy:
I initially did make 'Berserking' seal the user's spells, but in my game, there are a lot of hybrid skills that simultaneously utilize both physical and magical effects. If I made it silence the user, the berserker wouldn't be able to use something like "Flame Slash", which is why I made it increase MP Cost instead. My game features a classless, create your own build skill tree system where you can mix and match skills from any of the 13 trees provided. I do like the TP drain idea though! I currently have it set as a flat 50TP cost, but I will probably incorporate your idea to manage its duration. Btw, I renamed my TP "Focus" since I was torn between making it like Rage vs Energy.

Edit: I might even have "Berserking" increase MP Cost to 300% instead. I definitely want to instill the idea that it's difficult to concentrate/cast while enraged.
 
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