Synergistic & Lenticular Design

Devildimos

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Also having a 'slap attack' would be hilarious to cancel Rage state lol
:kaojoy:
"BAD WEREWOLF, BAD DOG! GET DOWN!"
*Embarrassed state applied*

I initially did make 'Berserking' seal the user's spells, but in my game, there are a lot of hybrid skills that simultaneously utilize both physical and magical effects. If I made it silence the user, the berserker wouldn't be able to use something like "Flame Slash", which is why I made it increase MP Cost instead. My game features a classless, create your own build skill tree system where you can mix and match skills from any of the 12 trees provided. I do like the TP drain idea though! I currently have it set as a flat 50TP cost, but I will probably incorporate your idea to manage its duration.


You need to have a look into Arche Age.
There they have so many spells and skill combining and combo-ing each other a lot.
But there you can chose 3 out of I think 12 skill trees now.
So you could make over 200 classes.
Which you could build your own class and play style.
Thus having the ability to combine skills with other skills to add different effects could give so much options.
 

Frostorm

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You need to have a look into Arche Age.
There they have so many spells and skill combining and combo-ing each other a lot.
But there you can chose 3 out of I think 12 skill trees now.
Funny coincidence, by max level in my game, the player will be able to master (reach tier 5) any 3 trees. Alternatively, they could spread their points out to cover more trees but they would only partially fill up those trees. I'll definitely look into that game, thx!
 

Finnuval

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Embarrassed state applied
Causes higher chance to fumble spells and makes attacks do less damage (less confidence in the strike behind it) als at the start of each turn there is an increased chance of running away. Is canceled when another character fails an action xD
 

Devildimos

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@Finnuval
Oi, Don't start talking half Dutch now hahaha :p

@Frostorm
I actually have a game (very early demo) in my folders which has these combining of states.
Funny enough it is a pokemon like game where you as the player fight along side with your fairies rather than you watch them beat themselves up.
In that game I managed to have states to stay simply yet have so many complex uses.
My ffavourite think to do is doing things like Finnuval Mentioned. *Slap*. If you have the possibility to be able to target any target with any spell you could do things like this.
Slap : Deals small damage. Applies shock and awakens the target.
Shock = Target is unable to move this turn.
 

Frostorm

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@Finnuval
Oi, Don't start talking half Dutch now hahaha :p

@Frostorm
I actually have a game (very early demo) in my folders which has these combining of states.
Funny enough it is a pokemon like game where you as the player fight along side with your fairies rather than you watch them beat themselves up.
In that game I managed to have states to stay simply yet have so many complex uses.
My ffavourite think to do is doing things like Finnuval Mentioned. *Slap*. If you have the possibility to be able to target any target with any spell you could do things like this.
Slap : Deals small damage. Applies shock and awakens the target.
Shock = Target is unable to move this turn.
Are you referring to the game in your sig?
 

Devildimos

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Actually, no.
This is a rouge-like dungeon crawler based on D&D. But it does have some mechanics as mentioned here.
Though it is not a turn based battle. It is a ABS.
It defiantly has interesting mechanics if you find things I say interesting. :D :p
 

TheoAllen

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Ok, now to actually answer the question.
What I'm about to say is probably obvious. But here is my methodology
  • Decide the core mechanic of the game.
  • Exploit that core mechanic of the game.
  • Make a prototype.
  • Test a lot.
  • Get yourself a tester or two (or even more). Gather feedback.
The first step is the fundamental part. Especially when you're thinking outside of the standard battle. Are you using ATB? Do you have a stagger mechanic? Do you have a row formation? Or even a grid position? What kind of resources do you have in the game? is it mp or tp? or both? or just a cooldown? or all of them?

The second step is to exploit the core mechanic. If you have a staggering effect, then build game mechanics around those. Extend stagger, increase damage on stagger, reduce stagger effect, and any effect you can think of. If you use row formation or grid position, think about how you can manipulate the system. Skill available based on position or field effect that works in a certain position.

I prefer to design skill or quirk that works independently instead of relying on you to synergize. So, as simple as "more damage dealt" is ok. What makes it different is the prerequisites of the activation. Here are some of the examples of my offensive mechanic. To give a context, I'm using row formation:
  • Solar Force: Attack increased up to 25% based on the current AP. If the actor is in the backline, all allies gain the same effect.
  • Solar Flare: Deploy a field-effect that deals damage per turn to all enemies. All allies gain 20% heat damage echo (additional damage dealt) for every attack.
  • Dazzling Flash: Stunned enemy from taking flashbang grenade takes 20% more damage
  • Cursed Mark: For one instance of attack, ignore the target armor value (the target gets full damage).
  • Ground Zero: Spend 50% of the HP to deal massive damage to all enemies. The damage multiplier is based on how much HP is spent.
  • I could list more. But these will do...
It is possible that you could do a combo for all of them. And the highest damage you could attain so far is like 8x or 9x from your normal attack if you managed to get most of the buff (based on my testing), however, getting that chance is super rare. Because there is a lot of situation that you need to sacrifice the combo because you need that action right now. Which is why I prefer each quirk to be independent on their own.

The third step is to create a prototype. You could forever make a spreadsheet on your excel and do math and calculation. However, to actually feel in-game is the important part. There is no way that your math is perfect in one go. You will tune your numbers. And when you do it, you actually change the number in the editor. Now, the number in your spreadsheet is irrelevant. Are you going to double your work by correcting both the number in your spreadsheet and in the game editor? I don't bother. I only create a general layout for a skill I want to make without actually defining the number because that's subject to change.

The fourth step is to actually test it. You are your own first tester. Create one dungeon, one boss, or anything. Try to play it through. Sometimes you have a cool idea, but when you actually test it, you scrap that and throw it out to the window. So, test a lot.

The fifth step is to get testers. When you're satisfied with your design, it's time to test it by a random player. Sometimes there are a lot of issues ranged from bugs and design flaws. Sometimes they just don't get your mechanic because it's too complex, they refuse to follow through the tutorial, sometimes your information delivery is just not enough for them to understand what you want them to know, sometimes they made an irreversible bad choice, sometimes they accidentally broke your game mechanic, sometimes the boss you think it's easy, it's too hard for them, and all other issues.

The fifth step is obvious, but it's also an important part to make an assessment of your skill synergy. Especially in information delivery. When that doesn't work, you can try to either clarify further or just trim down your skill synergy mechanic so that it is more simple to do.

Bonus step
This one is obvious. But play games, get as many as a reference you could gather. But just enjoy the game. Don't think about "I'm doing this for research". Just enjoy the game. Later when you design one, you could just think of one of those cool skills and mechanics from the game you like.
 

Frostorm

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I prefer to design skill or quirk that works independently instead of relying on you to synergize.
Yea I think most skills should have their effects independently as well. But I like to have synergies as a BONUS so that those skills can simply be used in their own right when the situation calls for it. Thank you for detailing your methodology.
 

HumanNinjaToo

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I also have used a similar state/elemental system to the OP, in that I have created tier one states that when inflicted will guarantee the tier 2 state to be inflicted (i.e Warm would be inflicted by a fire element attack/skill, then another fire element attack/skill would inflict the Burning state). I've also designed the elemental system to cancel each other out in some cases, so a water based state would cancel a fire based state.

Also, and think this falls under what's been mentioned in the OP, I have set up all DoT and some of the HoT states to be stackable. I've designed skills to have additional effects depending on what states the target is afflicted with (i.e. my warrior class has skills that will add bleeding state to the target, and if bleeding is already on the target then a skill would do an HP drain attack instead).

I've only got three characters, a limited number of states and skills, and so I'm trying to make sure they all tie in with each other in some way. I've found the easiest way to make this happen is clever damage formulas and taking advantage of the Yanfly plugins I have available.
 

Frostorm

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I can't think of any fitting states/status effects for the Air/Wind element. I might just resign to making that tree focus on location/movement manipulation (grid system) if I can't come up with anything good...

Edit: I also thought of a funny combo involving a "Fear" state: Target cannot act and has a 10% chance to gain the "Damp/Wet" state (because they pissed themselves lol).
 
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Devildimos

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What does wind do if it blows very hard?
Stagger I'd say.
Or knock you prone.
You could also add field effects for that skill using air or wind.
Like if you are in a dusty place it could blind the subject.
A snowy place would give a chill effect
Etc.
You can also simply remove the air element and simple give that wind skill blunt damage.
Like I don't use wind as a element for damage type.
Fire - Cold - Lightning - Poison - Radiant - Necrotic - Acid - Sonic - Force
 

Frostorm

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Earth, Water, & Wind spells in my game ONLY deal physical damage (which includes Blunt, Slash, & Pierce). Stagger makes sense. I also like the idea of using the terrain to define what effect it does.

Wind Slash would deal moderate Slash damage for example, but Gust would deal light Blunt damage and also push the target back 2 spaces.
 

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Wind (or better air) how about Suffocate? or Thin Air?
 

Devildimos

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Ah if you are using a tactical battle system than it would make sense to have push effects :)
 

TheoAllen

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Air Pressure: Press the target using strong pressure from the surrounding air. Deals impact damage, disorient the target. Effect: reduces attack stat (or increase damage taken) in the current turn or two turns. Effective against soft enemies. Ineffective against golem type enemies or something that has exoskeleton.

Air Cannon: Knock back the enemy by one or two grids. Deals impact damage. Reduce the speed/agi for a certain turn.

Wind/Air Slash: Slash damage to the enemy. High chance to make the enemy bleeds.

Blind escape: For one turn, blinds all the targets using the wind to blows up the dust. Greatly reduce the enemy hit rate.
 

Frostorm

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Wind (or better air) how about Suffocate? or Thin Air?
Yep, already got Suffocate (a silence with a DoT), what does Thin Air do btw?

I guess I can't really come up with any effects that would interact with the other elements very well, oh wells... It's not that I'm having a hard time coming up with Air/Wind skills in general, but rather I can't think of any ways to make them synergize with the other elements very well. (as per this thread's title)

Edit: Maybe I can make a skill that creates a cyclone/whirlwind on a tile that basically acts as a carrier for Fire/Ice spells. Also disorients/confuses any target on that tile. This would be fitting since the other 2 "physical" elements already have a similar mechanic:

Earth (Tar) - Carrier for Fire/Lightning spells. Fire & Lightning spells inflict "Burning" on targets with "Tar".
Water (Damp) - Carrier for Ice/Lightning spells. Ice & Lightning spells inflict "Frozen" & "Paralysis" respectively.
Wind (Cyclone) - Carrier for Fire/Ice spells. Fire & Ice spells cast on the cyclone turn it into a Flaming/Freezing Cyclone.

^The above effects would be 100% chance instead of the usual 25% when the spells are used by themselves.
 
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TheoAllen

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If your elementals are dealing with physical damage (slash, blunt, pierce), might as well as let go the elemental exclusiveness tbh. You don't have air/fire/water/earth/light/dark/whatever. You have damage elements, focus on those.
 

Finnuval

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Thin Air do btw?
Thin Air makes it harder to breath so it would drain energy/mp/yp I guess?

As for wind in combo with other elements :

Wind+Earth = Sandstorm/Sandblast
Wind+Fire = Simoon
Wind+Water = Cyclone/Hurricane
Wind+Ice = Bizzard

As for states that wind could interact with :

Well I think astrong wind would cause unbalance which would be weak to critical hits...? I dunno just thinking out loud here haha
 

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