Tackling the Database - any words of wisdom?

[Alkorri]

Having nudged my way out of the forests of tutorials, I was thinking of venturing into Database Dungeon.

Simply put, does any veteran have any advice for me while I wade through and start making my own items/skills/actors? Any traps and pitfalls I should be wary of before I attempt changing things for the first time?

Come to think of it, if I completely delete default assets like actors and items to replace with my own, will I see them again in the next project? I am afraid to test and find out I messed up and perma-deleted something I can't get back again ;D

 

[Andar]

Come to think of it, if I completely delete default assets like actors and items to replace with my own, will I see them again in the next project?

No, a new project will always have the defaults no matter what you did with the previous project.


But do not delete things unless you know why they're there - there is quite a few number of database entries that are neccessary for game function.


Here the two most common examples (which caused a lot of problems when having been deleted):


Skill #1 (attack) and skill #2 (guard) are directly linked to the attack/guard buttons in the battlecommand. Those commands will always trigger the skills #1 and #2, no matter how you changed them.


Feature HIT+95% on classes: All classes have a default feature for HIT. remove that feature without replacing it, and your actors will never hit the enemy again.


For all Ex-Parameters, the default is zero - if they don't get a number by features, they stay at zero. that isn't a problem with most of them, but HIT is needed for physical attacks - remove it and your fighters will never hit (you might give them a different HIT% if you don't want them to hit 95% of all attacks)

 

[Alexander Amnell]

First off, whenever you start a new project the database will be restored to it's default, so no matter what you delete there you will always be able to start a new project and use it as a reference if you forget how something was done or something.

One thing I would recommend is that when you start out with determining your characters stats and such start out with low numbers rather than high. (It's just, so much easier to balance a game and to predict and adjust when your working with smaller numbers) I go so low as that none of my stats other than hp/mp break 80 at level 99 (not counting equipment/buffs) Hp max is around 800 while mp is 200 or so. I tried at first keeping it closer to the defaults, I find it's to much work however when you start out with 400+ hp getting everything to balance right. Another thing to remember is if you do tweak the stats lower you need to also adjust most of the damage formulas for your attacks. (For example here, assuming you have 30 hp at lv 1 and 4 defense, an enemy with 7 attack comes at you, by the default damage formula of a.atk * 4 - b.def * 2 that is around 20 damage per hit, that just doesn't work out very well.)

Also of course make sure you leave skill # 1-2 alone (except damage formula if needed) as well as state #1 unless you want to alter how basic attack/guard/death works. Lots of help threads tend crop up over that mistake.

One last thing I'd recommend, change the default hit rate of all actors and enemies to 100% (by default it's 95%) That 5% may not seem like much, but when you factor in evasion rates and adjustments you might make for individual skills it can really get annoying. Think of the default hit rate as the chance that you can hit an unmoving target, and rely only on the evasion stats of actors/enemies to determine the probability that they might miss a moving target. It is way to easy to forget about that 5% when you are creating your lithe assassin enemy and suddenly you end up missing entirely to often. (or you have an enemy that's slow as can be and you don't give him evasion, but still he has a 5% chance to dodge even though he's a giant monster made out of iron or something.)

 

[Dalph]

Follow the other useful advices given here, and may I suggest to start by modifying the standard stuff? 

Once you get enough confidence with the database and learn how things are done, you can delete and add new heroes\classes\skills\monsters\items ecc... from scratch.

If you don't know what you're doing you would go nowhere by deleting stuff (trust me).

Try to modify and\or replicate existent stuff instead, but with different effects.

There aren't really any useful hints about the Database, it's a matter of practice and "testing" (this is very important), it's also important how you balance things, simple math can be helpful for distributing the stats.

Good luck.

 

[Alkorri]

This is super useful advice, guys, thanks

@Andar - Oooh thank you. Your amazing guide (in your link) was one of the first things I read here.

Good reminder about that Skill #1 (attack) and skill #2 (guard)' I remember reading I was not ever supposed to touch it. 

I am struggling however to find this "Feature HIT+95% on classes" you mentioned, guys. Is it under the Skills tab where it says Invocation Success 100%? Oooh, wait, you're talking about the Classes tab Ex-Parameter [Hit] +95% right?

@Alexander Amnell - That's something to think about, starting with low numbers. I'll think about tweaking when I'm more comfortable with the default formulas I will certainly consider changing the default hit rate!

If you don't know what you're doing you would go nowhere by deleting stuff (trust me).

I can't help it. A part of me twitches to make it all neat and tidy.. ;D

 

[Kes]

When it comes to creating items, draw up as comprehensive a list as you can before you start.  That is because generally speaking, items will appear in the player's inventory in the order you create them.  So if you create a couple of healing items, then a few other bits and pieces, then go back to healing items, the inventory will be a mess.  The following is just to illustrate one way of doing things.  Adapt it to your tastes and preferences.

Create all your HP healing items.  Leave a few lines so that if you think of something else it can be slotted in without messing up the order.

Then a block of MP healing items.  Again leave a few lines

Then your resurrection items.  ...

And so on, always leaving those few lines so that you can go back and add if you want to.

 

[Shaz]

I've moved this thread to VX Ace Support. Please be sure to post your threads in the correct forum next time. Thank you.

 

[T.Bit]

Make an excel sheet for each tab.

Seriously, it's much easier to modify, move items and such and when you finally decide to revamp and organize your database you can copy and paste text information and quickly add the rest in. So again, I reiterate:

Make an excel sheet!

 

[Alkorri]

Very nice tips, ksjp and Irili I especially didn't know the items would appear in order. An excel sheet would help organise. Thanks much!

 

[Tai_MT]

I've been finding with the database that some of the best and easiest things to do (if you don't use or own Excel like me) is to basically calculate out how much equipment/items/states/spells you'll be using.  With a rough calculation, you can easily split up the 999 max slots under these areas to cover all the stuff you want to mess with.  I've been using "Dividers" in my lists to easily find what I'm looking for (essentially, it's a blank entry with all null values and just a name that tells me everything under it in the list is what the heading says it is).  For example, my skills are split up into categories based on character.  After the first four slots (the first slot is the default Attack command, the second slot is the default Guard command, the two slots after that are for different basic attacks that don't fit into a category and can be meshed across all characters), I have the header "---Adrenaline---".  All 60 slots under that are dedicated to Adrenaline Skills.  After that 60 slot mark, the next header is in position.  It helps let you know how many spare slots you have for last minute additions and gives you a bit of room to work with.  My weapons and armors (which I never fully fleshed out initially, 'cause my game is intended to be fairly lengthy) are split into manageable sections based on desired amount.  I split my weapons up by weapon type (Sword, Staff, Bow) and split up my armors by type (Cloth, Chainmail, Platemail).  Naturally, with my armors split up by type instead of equip slot, I have to include helms and such under those sections as well.  Don't worry though, Shields get their own sections in Armor.  Accessories even got their own section.

It's all fairly time consuming, but once it's done, you don't have to do it again.  You just have to pull the database up and make a new entry in the appropriate place, and bammo, all done.

Here's something I do recommend you do before you delete anything though.  Seriously, you need to.  You should look at all the existing entries and see how they work.  Yes, that includes states.  Look at them all to get a good idea how these things are accomplished or how they are unique.  This information will be invaluable after you start deleting stuff to make room for your own touches.  Especially the states!  I can't stress this enough, look at the default states and see how the affects are accomplished so that you can either edit them in the future or make them yourself.

 

[Alkorri]

That's very useful! and this brings me to my next question. Say you got your database all nicely planned out and you want to use it again for your next project. What do you do? You have all these lovely scripts and what not. I take it all goes back to default? ..Unless you copy and paste or something.

 

[Tai_MT]

For each new project, you'll have to of course set up the Database again.  I know of no way to copy it between projects.  As for scripts...  I'm not sure.  I don't use scripts 'cause I like the limitation of trying to see what I can accomplish without them.  If you're a newbie, I recommend also not using scripts for a first project.  I also recommend creating a somewhat small 5 hour game as a first project too.  A small project will basically introduce you to all the basics of the program and teach you about some of the advanced features.  After you know how everything works scripts are more understandable (What I mean by that, is that it's easier to tell if you just coded something wrong or if the script is interfering when you have an issue).

I'm honestly not sure why you'd want to reuse the same everything from a previous project though.  I kind of prefer the thrill of making everything all new again with very few (if any) traces of the previous projects.  Which, in turn, is also less people screaming "You just copied your last game and put new maps in!" at you.

 

[Bloodmorphed]

Database management is daunting. It is one of the reasons I lose my motivation for making games. Which is why I am working on 3 projects... lol.

@Tai you don't need excel to use spread sheets. Try googles spread sheet, it is wonderful I love it. It is not as powerful as downloaded programs but it works.

@Alkorri I wish you good luck in your database endeavors! 

 

[Tigersong]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong here. I think, for things like actors, you can safely change the maximum, then change it back, and the default data will still be there. Comes in handy if you want less than the default number of characters.

@Bloodmorphed what I do is use Apache OpenOffice, which is much like Microsoft Office, except it's free.

 

[Shaz]

@Tigersong ... if you have the 10 default actors, then you change the maximum to 5, then back to 10, you will have lost those last 5 actors. So yes, you can change the maximum and then change it back again, but if either of those changes puts the maximum below any slot that's actually used, you'll lose what's in those slots.


@Tai_MT ... you can easily copy your database between projects. Just create a new project, save and close it. Then go to your old project's Data folder and copy all the files that DON'T begin with MAP and paste them into your new project's data folders. Realize that you may also have to copy supporting resources - any audio or graphics you may have specified in any of those database tabs that are not part of the RTP will also need to be copied to your new project, unless you plan to remove or change them.


Copying the last game and making new maps AND adding more things to the database (while still keeping old things) is perfectly acceptable if you're making a series, where game 2 features the same characters and places and items as game 1, then builds on it. If they're completely different games with a different universe/theme, then replacing them makes more sense.

 

[Tai_MT]

Shaz, that sounds like a lot of work.  I'm not inclined to do that work, ha ha.  Thanks for the information though?  Ha ha.

 

[Bloodmorphed]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong here. I think, for things like actors, you can safely change the maximum, then change it back, and the default data will still be there. Comes in handy if you want less than the default number of characters.

@Bloodmorphed what I do is use Apache OpenOffice, which is much like Microsoft Office, except it's free.

I thought about using that. But I find googles spread sheet is a bit easier to share if your working with someone else.