@Tai_MT Final Fantasy VII: What is still confusing you?

Touchfuzzy

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Rather than clog up the original thread, I thought I would split this into a new topic.

So here you go Tai_MT, ask away! Even though I'm not a FFVII Fanatic (I think it was a really good game, not "best game ever" or anything), I do know a ton about the lore of the world and the story.

Thought I would add some commonly misunderstood parts of the game:

  • Sephiroth died during the Nibelheim incident. His strength of will combined with his connection with Jenova gave him the ability to not dissipate into the lifestream.
  • You never encounter Sephiroth outside of the crater. You are actually chasing Jenova after she escaped from the Shinra Building under the control of Sephiroth's will.
  • Cloud's memory issues aren't really self-inflicted, but caused by the Jenova cells placed in him during the "Sephiroth clone" experiments Hojo did to him.
All of these things I can explain in much more detail, I just don't think someone wants me to write an essay on the entire story of FFVII. Because it actually all does make sense, once you clear up a few small details that were only vaguely explained. Or maybe someone does want me to write one. idk.
 
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OM3GA-Z3RO

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Aww I was going to write the whole story including on how the other FF 7's are connected as well but I guess this works too.
 

Uzuki

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I feel ya, Touchfuzzy. I feel that  FFVII isn't the greatest thing ever, but it's good and I do enjoy it. And strangely enough I somehow know enough to keep of with the biggest of FFVII nerds. I only have two things that still confuse me:

1) What the hey was up with the ending to dirge of Cerberus? Are they ever going to clear that up? I heard Square pretty much shut down any FFVII related projects so they won't have to remake the original.

2) Why did they change Genesis's voice actor in Crisis Core? I felt he sounded way better and sexier with the Spanish accent.
 

Touchfuzzy

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Yeah, on both of those I have no idea. I really would like to see something done with the teaser ending that DoC got (oddly, I actually LIKED DoC, it wasn't particularly great, but actually enjoyable).

I mostly find the depth of the existing lore actually pretty good, and the issue is that it can be presented in ways (due to various difficulties, including the translation) that make it more confusing than it actually is.
 

Uzuki

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Yeah, on both of those I have no idea. I really would like to see something done with the teaser ending that DoC got (oddly, I actually LIKED DoC, it wasn't particularly great, but actually enjoyable).
I liked DoC too. Sure it has some massive flaws, but for the most part I enjoyed the heck out of it. Play it with a friend and the fun never stops. Except with capsule hunting, those things can burn in Hell.
 

Touchfuzzy

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Oh, and a quick quote from an old thread, as it gives a lot of info on how the plot of FFVII actually works through describing why Cloud does what Cloud does throughout the game:

Ok, time to play "I know more about Final Fantasy VII than any reasonable sane man should".

I'm going to have to explain some things first, because there are lot of moving parts to explaining how Cloud ended up the way he did.
 
The Calamity from the Skies: Jenova.

"It looked like... our... our dead mothers... and our dead brothers. Showing us specters of their past." -Ifalna on Jenova.
 
The first thing you have to remember about Jenova, is that it is a shapeshifter. But not only can it take the looks of whatever it wants, it can mimic their personalities and actions. Jenova has the ability to read surface thoughts, and adjust its actions to your expectations.
 
The second thing: Jenova can assimilate other beings. By infected another being with its cells, it can mutate and manipulate them. Actually, if you pay attention in the story, something really kind of disturbing is revealed: Monsters are possibly the descendants of the Cetra that Jenova infected before she was put in a dormant state by the last pure Cetra.
 
What is the process used to create Sephiroth, SOLDIER, and Sephiroth Clones?
 
This is a neat one, and something that isn't touched on much in the translation. I don't know how much of this is because of bad translation, and how much is just stuff that wasn't even in the original Japanese. Most of my knowledge here comes from a combination of some things we DO see in the game (Sephiroth project) and things from the Ultimania guide.
 
So the first thing let's covers is Sephiroth. Sephiroth was a human being who was injected with Jenova cells while still in utero. Every bit of his DNA is permeated with Jenova cells. This increased his strength and gave him "special" powers beyond normal humans. He is effectively a human/jenova hybrid.
 
SOLDIER. Members of SOLDIER are screened for two things, the first is for actual ability. I mean they were elite troops and all, but the second was a strong sense of self. We'll get to why in a minute. They were injected with Jenova cells and given Mako showers, enhancing their physical abilities.
 
Sephiroth Clones were a thing created by Hojo. They were created from the survivors of the Nibelheim incident. The theory Hojo had was that Jenova cells, given time, would try to reconnect with each other. The process used to create them? Injecting them with Jenova cells and giving them Mako Showers. This is why Cloud could pass as an ex-SOLDIER. He actually did have the same abilities. So what is the difference? Unlike SOLDIER members, they weren't screened for a strong sense of self. They also were traumatized by the Nibelheim incident. Because of this, they were left much weaker to the manipulations of Jenova.
 
What the hell happened to Cloud?
 
After the escape and Zack's death, Cloud was still in a fugue state. Most of his memories were buried underneath trauma and the manipulation of Jenova through the cells. He wandered toward Midgar because that is what Zack told him to do. That was when Tifa found him. And this is where we get to the interesting bit!
 
The Jenova cells in Cloud acted on instinct, doing what it had done in the Cetra in the past, it pulled the memories off of Tifa to try and figure out how Cloud should act. Tifa remembered Cloud leaving to join SOLDIER, so that was what it picked up. It combined this with Cloud's memories, and it used his memories of Zack to fill in the blanks of what a SOLDIER was supposed to act like.
 
Cloud wasn't lying, and he had no shame for lying, because he had no idea that what he believed wasn't 100% true. The "voice" that keeps talking to him throughout the game is his real self, trying to make him remember, trying to reassert itself, but he didn't have the strength of will to manage it.
 
So how could Sephiroth control Cloud?
 
Sephiroth has a sense of self that is huge. How huge? Like, seriously huge bro. See here is where it starts to get interesting as far as what Sephiroth is doing the whole game. Unlike every other being that Jenova had ever infected, Sephiroth was different. It couldn't control him. Instead, Sephiroth controlled IT. And through it, he could control every other being Jenova controlled. Actually, something not mentioned in the game itself, but is really neat, is that Sephiroth never leaves the crater in the entire game. The thing you are chasing the entire time is Jenova shapeshifting to appear as Sephiroth, under Sephiroth's control. That is why you keep fighitng Jenova pieces each time you run into it.
 
So why couldn't he control Cloud late in the game?
 
THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP. No really, through his connections with the other party members, Cloud gains self confidence and a strong sense of self, allowing him to ignore the Jenova commands.
 
And here is where I really like Cloud in Final Fantasy VII: Cloud was a loser, who failed at everything he tried to do, who was completely brainwashed, experimented on, and had his mind deconstructed by an alien superbeing, and in the end, he grew, he became stronger, and he learned who he was. And because of that, he was able to Omnislash Sephiroth's punkass into the lifestream.
 
Source: I wrote this like, 100% from memory (other than the quote, I new the jest of it but couldn't remember the exact wording so I looked it up), so it may not be EXACT on on every point. Most of my memory comes from Ultimania guide translations and playing the game a lot. So booya.
 

Mouser

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What about the ending? I don't have an exact recollection of it since it's been a long while since I played the game yet:

Did the meteor hit the earth or not? And what was with Aeris' pearl thing? (And why didn't Cloud use a phoenix down on Aeris ;_; )
 

Touchfuzzy

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Aeris called up Holy, but Sephiroth was interfering with it actually taking effect. Destroying Sephiroth released Holy, in the form of the lifestream coming out and stopping Meteor. I believe that it was mentioned in there that the lifestream released so late may not be able to stop it, but they cut away before we actually see what exactly happened.


The ending though, of the original game didn't reveal exactly what happened. We know life on the planet didn't end, because we saw the cubs, but we don't know if humanity survived. Obviously it has been revealed since then that yes, they did.
 

OM3GA-Z3RO

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About what happened after Meteor

In the end of the Original FF7 Meteor didn't hit and exterminate all the humans on the planet, the scene that showed the cubs and a view of Midgar in ruins took place many, many years later.

In the Advent Children movie it starts off showing the exact same scene of the cubs and Midgar in the distance and then it went black and it said: "XXX years ago" and then it started showing the aftermath of what happened a year later after Meteor got prevented by Holy and the Lifestream but there was a after effect on the Lifestream saving the world, a lot of people got infected by a disease called Geostigma (If I am correct) which can be easily noticeable with black bruising marks on their bodies.

About why Cloud didn't use Pheonix Down on Aeris

Okay, Phoenix Down's don't necessarily revive people from the dead, they just wake up Knocked Out people, obviously when you are fighting and you have been injured with so much excruciating pain you tend to pass out, hence the reason why the states in all FF games is called KO (Knocked Out) and if everyone is KO'd no one can defend the other or themselves and obviously the enemy will kill them hence making it a Game Over, Aeris' case is that she has been stabbed through her stomach, which can cause a lot of internal organ damage and that can surely kill someone and Pheonix Down's don't revive they just wake up people that are Knocked Out.

"But OM3GA, why doesn't Cloud just heal her?"

The death was instant the moment Sephiroth pulled the Masamune out of her so healing spells wouldn't work.

Now you would probably wonder: "Then why did Tifa survived? Tifa was slashed by Sephiroth and is still alive."

I am no doctor and don't know much about the human anatomy but if I had to speculate then I would say that the slash wasn't a real fatal deep cut.

"Then what about Cloud? He survived a stab from Sephiroth?"

Pay in mind that Cloud did die Per Se but Hojo did experiments on Cloud and that is what brought him back (If my memory served me right on that one.) like Vincent, he got shot in point blank and then got experimented on, coming back from the dead but as a Monster Morpher.
 
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Touchfuzzy

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I don't think Cloud actually died. He was very close to death though.


I mean its just like how two different people can be shot by the same caliber round and one live and one doesn't, its more about what gets hit than being hit.
 

Archeia

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In the FF7 Lore in Ultimania Omega, anything that has been killed by the Masamune can't be resurrected. Which is what happened to Aerith.

Also Cloud didn't die.
 
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Seacliff

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Alright, here is something FF7 related, but also is related to RPG Maker. It's been bugging me for a while.

Is Oscar's design based on Sephiroth?
 

SLEEP

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why does cloud dress as a girl, and then stop, also how do i unlock miss cloud mode for the whole game?
 
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OM3GA-Z3RO

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"Then what about Cloud? He survived a stab from Sephiroth?"

Pay in mind that Cloud did die Per Se but Hojo did experiments on Cloud and that is what brought him back (If my memory served me right on that one.) like Vincent, he got shot in point blank and then got experimented on, coming back from the dead but as a Monster Morpher.
Then I apologise, my memory served me wrong sorry for that, but everything else there is correct that I know.

Miss Cloud mode throughout the game can only be on the PC version with a third party program that can alter the game, there is no such thing as a cheat that can do that. Most people use these programs so that they can still play Aeris and then upload it on Youtube making rumours that there is a way to save Aeris which we all know that it is totally not true.
 

Uzuki

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Alright, here is something FF7 related, but also is related to RPG Maker. It's been bugging me for a while.

Is Oscar's design based on Sephiroth?
Well to be honest Sephiroth design is kinda...generic. There have been plenty of villains in anime and mangat have done the silver/white long hair with black clothes look before. Sephiroth just made it uber popular. One  of the earliest that I can think of is the main viallain in DQIV.

why does cloud dress as a girl, and then stop, also how do i unlock miss cloud mode for the whole game?
Cloud dresses like a girl to get into Corneo's mansion. Corneo is a horndog who is only interested in sex with women. Although now you have to wonder even if you get the crappiest of the dress items Corneo still wants to hook up with a Cloud. Ew.
 

OM3GA-Z3RO

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You sure about that? My 1st and 2nd attempt when getting into Corneo's mansion he chose Tifa (1st) and Aeris (2nd) guess I wasn't pretty enough at that time Q^Q
 

Touchfuzzy

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... Am I the only one disappointed that after Tai_MT claimed that no one could explain it and the whole story didn't make sense, he hasn't bothered to back up what he said by putting forth parts of the game he thinks are unexplainable.
 

SLEEP

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Cloud dresses like a girl to get into Corneo's mansion. Corneo is a horndog who is only interested in sex with women. Although now you have to wonder even if you get the crappiest of the dress items Corneo still wants to hook up with a Cloud. Ew.
I think corneo should be more open minded, lets make a petition on the white house website.
 

OM3GA-Z3RO

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... Am I the only one disappointed that after Tai_MT claimed that no one could explain it and the whole story didn't make sense, he hasn't bothered to back up what he said by putting forth parts of the game he thinks are unexplainable.
No I am pretty disappointed myself too, it seems like Tai_MT doesn't care more than not taking the effort to understand but that's how I feel
 

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