@Tai_MT Final Fantasy VII: What is still confusing you?

[AstoXx]

Screw VII, it's not confusing at all. What I want to know is... just what in the hell is going on in FFVIII?!

 

[Archeia]

Final Fantasy VIII is a clusterf*ck to really make sense of. Either it has a lot of Deus Ex Machina's or Squall is Dead theory is legit.

 

[Touchfuzzy]

I could honestly never get over the mechanics of VIII enough to actually play it more than a few hours.

 

[SLEEP]

squall is dead theory is dumb

 

[Solo]

Squall is Dead

I have never played Final Fantasy VIII... but I find that theory totally amazing. If that's truly the way the game was meant to be interpreted, whoever wrote the story did a remarkably masterful job of it. Inspiring!

 

[OM3GA-Z3RO]

There is a guy that cracked that theory and the result of the theory is that it is untrue and BS, I read his whole wall of text about the theory and what was written there is so totally legit, so that theory is wrong no matter how amazing you see it.

 

[Alexander Amnell]

I more subscribe to the "The story ended after the battle with Galbadea Garden but execs said it wasn't long enough and threw a bunch of weird, interpretive tangents in to hide the fact that there wasn't anymore canon to go on" theory.

More on topic, could someone explain the importance and purpose for Aeris/Zack's relationship in the main story? When playing Final Fantasy 7 it only came off to me as a glaringly pointless coincidence but then later in Crisis Core and Advent Children both a big deal is made out of it like it was way more important to the story then I thought it was and I can't figure out why this is. Also Cait Sith, what the Frick is Cait Sith... that's all that really confuses me in 7 that I can think of.

 

[Uzuki]

More on topic, could someone explain the importance and purpose for Aeris/Zack's relationship in the main story? When playing Final Fantasy 7 it only came off to me as a glaringly pointless coincidence but then later in Crisis Core and Advent Children both a big deal is made out of it like it was way more important to the story then I thought it was and I can't figure out why this is. Also Cait Sith, what the Frick is Cait Sith... that's all that really confuses me in 7 that I can think of.

1) Zack and Aerith's relationship is kinda important VII, but only because of the effect that it plays on Cloud. This next section will be in a spoiler form so as not ruin it for some people.

Spoiler

Zack and Aerith have a romantic relationship in Crisis Core and of course this means that they have strong feelings for each other. As we remember when Cloud was experimented on, he made a connection with Zack and took some of his memories and feelings for certain people. In the beginning of VII remember when he's acting nonchalant to everyone, but then he meets Aerith and the first thing he doe's is to start flirting with her. Aerith plays along, because she misses Zack (Having being gone for four years and died a few days prior to this) and Cloud reminds her of him. As the story progresses you can that Zack emotions are strong enough to make Cloud think that he loves her, when in reality he doesn't. Later on after Cloud regains his true memories of who he is he knows that the feelings that he had for Aerith were Zacks'. In Advent Children and the OVA Square was still trying to push the Aerith/Cloud ship even though it was clearly finished in the first game.

2)I have no idea. It's not mention in any of the games or video medias and since the Ultima Guidebooks are in Japanese I can only go off what other people have said.

 

[OM3GA-Z3RO]

 Also Cait Sith, what the Frick is Cait Sith... that's all that really confuses me in 7 that I can think of.

I can answer that, Cait Sith is a puppet, that is all, he is a puppet controlled by a member of Shinra named Reeve, throughout all the members of Shinra Reeve was the only one in the government that could see what Shinra was doing was wrong, he assigned himself to act as a spy with his Masterpuppet abilities to trick Cloud and the party to allow Cait Sith into the group and to his success he was in. He did betray them once but then redeemed himself in helping the party get the Black Materia.

At 1st I neevr knew who Cait Sith was either until I played Dirge of Cerberus and found out that Reeve is a Master Puppeteer  that allows him to act without being in the front line, I mean he even had his Puppet (Cait Sith) dressed to look just like Reeve and puppeteer that as well which is pretty cool, Cait Sith's are easily replaced by Reeve since he keeps making more of them, in Dirge of Cerberus a Cait Sith walked up to Vincent while Vincent and Reeve were talking about the operation before they go to war against Deepground and Cait Sith said: "5# Reporting for duty" with that Irish accent.

I found new respect from Reeve seeing how badass of a Puppet Master he is after playing Dirge of Cerberus.

 

[Uzuki]

I can answer that, Cait Sith is a puppet, that is all, he is a puppet controlled by a member of Shinra named Reeve, throughout all the members of Shinra Reeve was the only one in the government that could see what Shinra was doing was wrong, he assigned himself to act as a spy with his Masterpuppet abilities to trick Cloud and the party to allow Cait Sith into the group and to his success he was in. He did betray them once but then redeemed himself in helping the party get the Black Materia.

At 1st I neevr knew who Cait Sith was either until I played Dirge of Cerberus and found out that Reeve is a Master Puppeteer  that allows him to act without being in the front line, I mean he even had his Puppet (Cait Sith) dressed to look just like Reeve and puppeteer that as well which is pretty cool, Cait Sith's are easily replaced by Reeve since he keeps making more of them, in Dirge of Cerberus a Cait Sith walked up to Vincent while Vincent and Reeve were talking about the operation before they go to war against Deepground and Cait Sith said: "5# Reporting for duty" with that Irish accent.

I found new respect from Reeve seeing how badass of a Puppet Master he is after playing Dirge of Cerberus.

Ugh. That's what I meant to put down. I misinterpret what the he said and I thought he was asking why Reeve was using Cait Sith. My bad

 

[deilin]

LOL. I understoof FF VIII just fine, couldn't play 5 minutes of FF VII before shelfing it.

 

[Pern]

I knew Cait Sith was Reeve but I've always had a difficult time linking them because both characters act so different from each other. Cait Sith can be rather aloof at times, playful and whatnot while Reeve is (at least in the instances you see him in FF7, I haven't played any of the spin offs) is serious, straightforward and committed. I like to believe that Cait Sith is his own character with an active AI when not controlled by Reeve which is probably the case.

 

[Archeia]

stuff

Your explanation about the Aerith/Cloud relationship is going against the established theme Hironobu Sakaguchi's point with FF7. Even if someone is dead it doesn't mean the end.

I'll spoilerize because you got their relationship all wrong.

Spoiler

Aerith and the first thing he doe's is to start flirting with her. Aerith plays along, because she misses Zack (Having being gone for four years and died a few days prior to this) and Cloud reminds her of him

In the game, Aerith clearly states that her relationship with Zack was in the past and that they were NOT serious. From FFVII directly:

 

Cloud: "You were...serious?"

Aerith: "No. But I liked him for awhile."

Cloud: "I probably knew him. What was his name?"

Aerith: "It doesn't really matter."

Here's another thing.

Aerith did not act all that concerned when she found out that Zack had been missing for 5 years and was possibly dead. Here's a piece of dialogue from Gongaga:

Aerith: "What a shock.... I didn't know Zack was from this town."

Cloud: "You know him?"

Aerith: "Didn't I tell you? He was my first love."

Cloud: "......"

Aerith: "Zack.... SOLDIER First Class. Same as Cloud."

Cloud: "Strange, there aren't that many who make First Class, but I've never heard of him."

Aerith: "That's all right. It's all in the past now. I was just worried because I heard he's been missing."

Cloud: "Missing?"

Aerith: "I think it was 5 years ago. He went out on a job, and never came back." "He loved women, a real lady's man. He probably found someone else."

Aerith and Zack weren't madly in love with each other. It's more of a puppy/platonic love. By the end of Crisis Core, Aerith moves on and says a line of dialogue that I forgot. AND DUG UP:

Aerith: Are you doing well? Where are you? It's been 4 years. This will be the 89th letter I've written but I will not send out any more. I hope that you receive this last letter. Zack! The flowers are selling very well. It makes everyone smile. It's all thanks to you. Aerith. (Aerith's 89th and final letter to Zack, Crisis Core)

 

Zack falls to the Church of the Slum during his mission and ends up meeting the girl Aerith, who's trimming flowers. They both feel contented simply with each other's company; it's a platonic love. They think these kinds of happy days will last forever, but.... (Crisis Core Ultimania, Zack's profile)

 

They attract to each other by mutual feelings similar to friendship, because they're both juvenile, if you call it love... (Crisis Core Ultimania)

 

Cloud and Aerith didn't flirt with each other. Aerith pretty much approached him and she just eased easily with Cloud. You'll notice that Cloud is a lot more open to Aerith because of her personality through body language. And Aerith was the one who actually wants to know more about Cloud.

Regardless that Cloud took something from Zack, that would be his confidence and memory for being a SOLDIER, Cloud's body language and gestures are ALL HIS. He did not "become" Zack. In fact, Zack and Cloud are exact opposites. Zack was a "ladies man", very outgoing and friendly. You can even see it in the hidden scenes of Nibleheim Mansion Lab. Cloud is introverted and cold.

In fact, here you go:

Due to the influence of the Jenova cells implanted in his body he acted out a false persona, but with the support of his friends he regains his true self and grows as a person. (FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania)

 

This statement says nothing about Cloud becoming an entirely different person. He merely acted out a fake facade of being a cool, strong, SOLDIER guy to cover up his own inner weaknesses.

 

(This is related to what I meant in the other thread where Cloud is a representation of what is expected from the male society. A man being in SOLDIER is the highest honor and the only thing you can do to impress Ms. Tifa because being a good guy and saving you from the falling bridge in Nibleheim mountains isn't enough.~)

 

Cloud idolized Zack and in the Nibleheim memory scene, he's the shinra mook soldier that Zack was teaching some poses. He may have promised a dying Zack that he would live out both their lives but Cloud acts nothing like Zack. Cloud imitates Zack's cocky attitude as a First Class SOLDIER and even learns some of Zack's moves and gestures. However, that is where the similarities end. Cloud is as cold and condescending toward others as Zack was carefree and warm. They're not the same.

 

Also see this line from Aerith's date scene:

Aerith: "First off, it bothered me how you looked exactly alike. Two completely different people, but look exactly the same. The way you walk, gesture... I think I must have seen him again, in you... But you're different. Things are different..."


She's bothered. It means bewildered, confused and/or annoyed. If she really likes 'Cloud for being Zack' she wouldn't use this word. And she quickly interjects, but you are different, meaning he's not acting like Zack.

In the novel Maiden of the Planet, which could be considered Canon because they're known for their other novel works, it is revealed that Aerith and Cloud do love each other.  

 

Aerith tells Zack that his "bad point" was that he was a flirt. Thee fact that he wasn't "simplistic and awkward like Cloud". And so Aerith is stating she prefers Cloud's simplistic, awkward behavior to Zack's flirty, womanizing behavior. And to finally destroy this 'Aerith likes Cloud because he's Zack,' "She loved him [Cloud] much more than her first love."  You can't get much clearer than that! 

 

Also other stuff:

Even though Aerith perceived that Cloud had lost sight of his true self, she still has great affection for him. (FFVII 10th Anniversary 

Ultimania, Aerith's profile)

 

Although in the beginning, Aerith felt close to Cloud because he behaves like Zack, her interest in Cloud himself grows and is attracted 

to him. (FFVII Ultimania Omega, p. 31)

 

"I'm looking for you."... "So you won't have a breakdown."- what Aerith told Cloud reveals many deep meanings. Aerith detected that 

the present Cloud is not the real him during their encounters. She knows it because of her mysterious, inherent ability. (FFVII 

Ultimania Omega, p. 29)

 

When Aerith thinks of Cloud and Zack's similarities, she sees that the present Cloud is not the real Cloud. Her meaningful lines like, 

"I'm searching for you" and "I want to meet you" all mean that she has discovered the existence of the real Cloud, although he's not 

aware of it himself. (FFVII Ultimania Omega, p. 31)

 



 

I'm sleepy but anyway.

 

[Alexander Amnell]

more stuff...

   So in AC Aerith and Zack appearing together was just a representation of Cloud's memories creating a 'memetic legacy' for the both of them and has nothing to do with the actual relationship that Zack and Aerith had together? Crisis Core still throws me off in that case, what you say makes me feel like I had it right the first time, but between playing through the Aerith/Cloud stages of FF7 and then playing the Aerith/Zack parts of Crisis Core, Crisis Core does appear to be the more serious relationship. As said, that does seem to contradict the canon of 7, or maybe I'm just interpreting Crisis Core the wrong way, or maybe Crisis Core just took some creative licenses with the canon but I still don't understand if/why Zack and Aerith's relationship was important.

@Om3ga Z3ro: I had to look up Reeve just now and have no recollection of him in game, which makes me want to play FF7 again even though it would probably take me a couple of years to find the time to actually play it through again right now.

 

[Touchfuzzy]

Reeve Tuesti is one of my favorite ffvii characters... which is odd since I don't like I don't really like Cait Sith that much...

 

[SLEEP]

Cloud only fell in love with Aerith after she died... yea he's one of those guys...

 

[OM3GA-Z3RO]

Reeve Tuesti is one of my favorite ffvii characters... which is odd since I don't like I don't really like Cait Sith that much...

95% of every person that played FF7 hates Cait Sith and I agree I don't like him either, he is pretty useless in terms with his Limit Break (Only has 2 Limit Breaks) so I never played as him but I loved the concept of Reeve being the person in control.

@Om3ga Z3ro: I had to look up Reeve just now and have no recollection of him in game, which makes me want to play FF7 again even though it would probably take me a couple of years to find the time to actually play it through again right now.

If people doesn't pay much attention to some characters then yes, we would definitely have no recollection on Reeve at all, I at 1st just saw him as a figurehead for the Shinra Government but after playing the game for the 2nd time I decided to pay attention and that was only when I noticed that Reeve plays a big role in this, it pretty much blew my mind when I was young XD

Also for once I will ask  question, this has been bothering me a lot and never took the time to ask but here it goes... Why does Aeris/Aerith have 2 different names from different games and franchises? Which one is the original? I always called her Aeris but everyone I know keeps calling her Aerith and it makes me look like the idiot.

 

[Uzuki]

Also for once I will ask  question, this has been bothering me a lot and never took the time to ask but here it goes... Why does Aeris/Aerith have 2 different names from different games and franchises? Which one is the original? I always called her Aeris but everyone I know keeps calling her Aerith and it makes me look like the idiot.

Due to a translation error in the original VII Aeris name was misspelled from Aerith. That's why every media outside of the original VII refers to her as Aerith.

 

[Solo]

Due to a translation error in the original VII Aeris name was misspelled from Aerith. That's why every media outside of the original VII refers to her as Aerith.

I always thought "Aeris" was more appropriate though, sounding like "heiress," more befitting her role in the plot (or so I've read; I played very little of FF7). Personally, if I had an attachment to her as "Aeris" back then, I would continue to call her that despite "Aerith" being canonically correct or whatever. It's like the Gurgu Volcano in FF1; it's been retranslated as "Mt. Gulg," but I like Gurgu better. The whole L and R thing...

"Th" and "s" sounds are the same when rendered in Japanese as well, so honestly, either spelling could be correct.

It's like Kefka and Cefca... hehe, I remember that. Awesome how they parodied it in the GBA version of FF6.

 

[Touchfuzzy]

I've always just thought Aeris sounded more right to her character than Aerith. Aerith is just a harsher sounding name to me. Personal opinion though, obviously in canon she is Aerith.