Text Sounds: Yes or No?

Discussion in 'Game Mechanics Design' started by MechScapeZH, Oct 17, 2019.

  1. MechScapeZH

    MechScapeZH Veteran Veteran

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    Hello everyone,

    I've been recently considering adding text sounds to my game. I'm referring to the little bleeps made by each letter when it appears in a message box- Yanfly has a plugin for it.

    Strangely, text sounds in RPGs I've played always stuck with me somehow, even becoming the most memorable thing about the game.

    However, it's easy for such sounds to get annoying as well, so I thought I'd get some input from everyone on this forum- do you find text sounds annoying or no? What sounds are best for this purpose?

    Thanks in advance for your input.
     
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  2. NinjaKittyProductions

    NinjaKittyProductions Professional Murder Hobos Veteran

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    I think it really depends on the sound that is used. In my opinion from my experiences, text sounds that are bassier or deep are more enjoyable and not as annoying as sounds that are higher pitched. For example, how many times have you played a Legend of Zelda game and frantically look for a heart to stop the low health beep.
     
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  3. woop

    woop Freelance Illustrator Veteran

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    I personally like them, but I don't think there's really a certain catch-all sound that works for everyone, it depends on your game.

    This example is on the extreme end of the spectrum, but look at Undertale. It's a game where characters you meet have quite the range of personalities, and as such, have unique and carefully picked text sounds that make the characters so fun to interact with.

    If the text sounds are done right, they'll help give your game a unique identity.
     
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  4. MechScapeZH

    MechScapeZH Veteran Veteran

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    Very true. (...I always just mute the game, myself. :guffaw:) But that isn't a text sound per se, right? That's supposed to make the player alarmed. You're definitely right about needing a lower pitch. I can't think of any game I've played with a high-pitched text sound.

    I've never played Undertale, but that sounds very interesting. So each character has a different sound? That's very cool.

    Text sounds definitely do contribute highly to a game's identity.
     
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  5. woop

    woop Freelance Illustrator Veteran

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    I would definitely check out some game play videos if you want to see a good example of text sounds. Also, the dev goes one step further by having unique text fonts for the main characters as well. Combined with unique text sounds, you can really imagine how these characters would sound in real life. They're powerful details that help immerse the player into your world.

    Text sounds and text fonts are small details that are often overlooked when I look at other RPG Maker games. I would definitely recommend to at least look into putting in text sounds if your game has a lot of character dialogue. Also, try to research other games, Undertale is just one example of many.
     
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  6. Eschaton

    Eschaton Hack Fraud Veteran

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    I know I have an easier time reading dialogue with sound and motion associated with it.
     
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  7. TheoAllen

    TheoAllen Self-proclaimed jack of all trades Veteran

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    I like text sounds. It keeps me alerted. Except if it's a naration, I feel weird when dialogue text has no sounds because I used to read the dialogue with voice actors, the text sounds are good to substitute them.
     
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  8. Aesica

    Aesica undefined Veteran

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    For games that insist on having typewriter text (x letters rendered per y frames) I find text sounds are preferred. I especially like it when games using text sounds varies the pitch/tone based on who's speaking. I believe Undertale is a good modern-ish example of this.

    Even games that render text instantly benefit from having some sort of tone (as long as it's not too grating or intrusive) each time dialog appears. That's just my thoughts anyway.
     
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  9. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    I'm of the group that doesn't like it. I can read fast and the sounds distract me from it, plus, usually when devs add it they force slowdowns of the sounds which has me constantly waiting for the text to display as I've already read all you've shown me.

    Maybe make it an option you can turn off?
     
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  10. TheoAllen

    TheoAllen Self-proclaimed jack of all trades Veteran

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    I'm putting an option to turn them off in my game, although I haven't make sure if the scene timing will be broken because of the instant text (some of the events is doing something while the text is being typed with some pauses, like doing move route).

    I prefer seeing the game scene as watching a movie than reading a book. Thus, I prefer pauses and text sounds.
     
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  11. Tai_MT

    Tai_MT Veteran Veteran

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    My personal standpoint on text is thus:

    Display it all immediately. In general, I read faster than it "types out" or "displays". If you show me the entire block of text at once, I can read it, digest it, and hit the Enter Button to get the next bit that I need.

    Text noises cause unnecessary slowdown as well as accompanying the act of my brain translating words into actual pictures in my head, with aggressive annoyance.

    See, here's the thing:

    You're making a cutscene. Stuff happens in it. You got the music already going... you got the characters doing their choreography... you got sound effects... maybe some background ambient noise (rain, earthquakes, etcetera), and your character swinging around a sword that makes an audible "Clang!" each time they hit an enemy. On top of all that... you've got scrolling text with the "clack, clack, clack" overtop of all of that.

    Seriously, it detracts from the scene. It muddies further the sound and music already playing. It distracts from reading.

    I'm the sort of person who loves a good story. Loves to just keep reading. Now, imagine... you're trying to read a book. It's a great novel! One of the best you ever read! But... you have to wait for each word/letter to be typed out as you read it. Your only option to speed it along is to tap the page of the book with your finger repeatedly to get all the text on the page to appear at once. Wouldn't that pull you out of the mood to read that book? Wouldn't that keep you from getting invested? Keep you from immersing yourself? Keep you from no longer reading the words, but instead imagining the scene before you?

    It does precisely those things for me. Give me the box of dialogue all at once. Box pops up, it's already full of the text immediately. I hit the button when I'm ready to read the next set. Keeps me immersed. Having to hammer the button at the beginning of the text and at the end just irritates me. It pulls me out of the experience. On top of which, you then have the sound of typing letters or what-have-you to further compound the issue.

    Look, unless your characters are actually typing the words at the exact moment you are reading them... this is probably a trope that needs to die.

    I'm the guy who puts text speeds on the fastest possible you can get in every single game. It allows me to read at my own pace and not have to wait around for text to fill the screen. I'm the guy who turns sound and music off in your game if I find it annoying and/or tedious and not care if he's missing something as a result. I'm the guy who would rather fill his ears with Gordan Ramsey yelling at idiot chefs than listen to "bleep blep blepp bleep bloop" of text scrolling across his screen. Or... put on actual music and mute the crap out of your game if you give me a reason to. I refuse to tolerate a few annoying sounds for the sake of a majority of good ones. I refuse to tolerate a crap song for the sake of a few good ones.

    So, in my case... Include your typing sounds if you enjoy them. Just also realize... I've muted the crap out of your game after hearing it the first time, have started watching Netflix, and am probably annoyed at how slow your text appears.
     
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  12. HoneyBourbun

    HoneyBourbun Villager Member

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    You’ve got a pretty “my way or the highway” vibe in your post, especially the further I read on into it. OP definitely didn’t need to hear/read that you’re just gonna mute their game over something small like a SOUND EFFECT. If you’re going to lose interest in a game over something trivial like that, that's a “you problem”, not a “dev problem”.

    The sound-associated text and typewriter style of text-display clashes with your fast reading. Is that what you were trying to get at?

    To counter the “display it all at once” and the “trope needs to die” comments, please consider this: <b>not everyone reads as fast or as well as you</b>. Granted, I’m glad YOU can read a wall of text and absorb it well, because I sure as hell can’t.

    Or other people who’re below-average readers, and/or those who’re dyslexic (which affects about a fifth of our population). Speed in or out of the equation, absorbing the material all at once is difficult for some people. It’s easier to absorb the text as it comes out, and it’s natural to read word by word, like what “typewriting” does. Probably why it’s a popular trope. Just because it bothers you, doesn’t mean the trope should die.

    OP is asking for opinions on their idea to get the pros and cons on their idea, NOT looking for opinions for the sake of being opinions. Opinions like that aren’t worthwhile if they have to crawl over the self-embedded word-vomit to get to the part they actually NEED.


    <i>ANYWAY.</i>

    You’re not going to be able to please everyone, but I think you should do what’s the most enjoyable for you. It may annoy some people, but text-sound is not going to make-or-break your game.

    With that said, I would recommend a sound that you wouldn’t get annoyed with after awhile. Also, as someone had pointed out with Undertale, the different pitches in sounds can bring diversity and a sense of voice to the sounds, making it easier to listen to. In a more subtle example, Dragon Quest (or at least IX), they use the same sound for dialogue but they change the frequency and pitch amongst the NPCs. It’s like diversity but with unity.
     
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  13. MechScapeZH

    MechScapeZH Veteran Veteran

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    Well, both of you have your points- I guess this is a more important issue than I thought since it elicits strong opinions.

    As I said before, I really do like text sounds & find them quite relaxing, but since I doubt @Tai_MT is alone in his opinion, it's probably prudent for developers to consider making it a toggleable option.

    Thanks to both of you for your thoughts.
     
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  14. Tai_MT

    Tai_MT Veteran Veteran

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    The Original Post asks for opinions on it. My opinion is no more "my way or the highway" than your own. It is my opinion. As I stated in the very first sentence.

    As it is my opinion, it is very much geared toward "how I deal with this in a game" as well as "what I personally like".

    I'm not entirely sure you know what an opinion is or how it works, since you seem to think I'm not allowed to have one simply because you disagree with it.

    No. Please reread my post.

    Here's the short version: The sound itself clashes with any other sounds you might be playing as well. This includes sound effects, ambient music, ambient sounds, etcetera. It can greatly disrupt a cutscene and "muddy the water" when you're trying to create a sense of immersion for an event in the game.

    Likewise, the sound itself pulls a reader like me, out of immersion immediately and ruins enjoyment of your story as a result. I don't "read text" when I read a story. Yes, my brain is reading text and translating it. However, when I open a book and get three words in... I am no longer seeing words. I am no longer seeing pages of a book. My vision fills with the vision of the artist. Your words are replaced with the mental imagery of what you are trying to convey.

    Typewriter sounds undermine this heavily for me. Every word reminding me that I am playing a video game. Every word reminding me to shut off my imagination. Every word reminding me that it is all monotone text and I should be analyzing it instead of experiencing it.

    It is already difficult enough for me to become "immersed" in a video game. What with the controls not always being responsive, the constant menu navigation, the constant text telling me I got items and money and experience... And now, you've got text sounds at the parts where I would get immersed.

    So, I'm going to mute the crap out of your game. To preserve what little immersion is left to be had. The noise is a real physical annoyance to me. I'd rather mute your whole game to get rid of this actual annoyance and miss out on all the other sound and music in your game... than have to be constantly pulled out of immersion with every letter or every word.

    This is why I clarified that I'm the type that puts text speed at maximum. So that I could read at my own pace. That does not mean "read faster than everyone". It means, I can read the entire box of text at a speed that may be somewhere in between the text speeds offered by your game. "Normal" may be too fast while "Slow" is too slow. If I slap "Fastest" on the text speed, I am allowed to read the text at the speed I am comfortable with, without having to worry if it's too slow and I lose immersion.

    A true alternative would be to simply have voice actors instead of text. No reading necessary. No text sounds necessary. People who have issues reading as well as others, could simply be told the story through visual cutscenes and voice acting.

    To be quite honest, however, I often turn the subtitles on with voice acting and read what's going on before the characters utter it. I sometimes also mute the voice acting as well, because I get more out of the medium by reading it (things are always better in your imagination than they are in reality, after all).

    My stance on it needing to die is that it exists as a stylistic choice and not for much else. If it were included for any of the reasons you suggested, it wouldn't need to die. However, this is rarely, if ever (okay, it's never been included for that reason) the reason the typewriter sound is included. It is often the reason why a "slow text speed" option is included, which I have nothing against. But, the word typing thing exists purely for aesthetics. It is also rarely ever included in a video game. Most likely because it can be divisive... or because you'll basically be called out for "copying another game" and it's very difficult to "innovate" the action of just playing a sound for every letter/word.

    I've played a lot of RPG's... Granted, I haven't played them all... But, the vast majority of RPG's do not have this feature. You don't ever wonder "why not?"?

    That is exactly what I provided. Some "cons" to implementation of it.

    An opinion is only worthwhile if someone views it worthwhile. That is its very nature as an opinion. The OP is free to completely dismiss any and everything I've said in my post and ignore it. I won't have hurt feelings if they do so. In fact, I often say on these forums that people are free to dismiss anything I say due to one bias or another... or free to completely ignore my posts and never respond to them.

    Think of me sort of as the guy on the street corner shouting about the end of the world and he doesn't care if anyone is actually listening. That's most of what I do here. Shout my opinions and stances and facts, and it doesn't matter if anyone listens to me... unless they decide to respond to me. At which point, you've agreed to a social contract to listen to what I have to say and take it seriously.

    As for trying to dismiss my opinion entirely through insults... Is that how you win an argument? Project your point of view? Also, why are you speaking for the OP? If they have something to say to me, they will. If they do say something to me and I feel the need to respond to it, I will. It will start a dialogue either good or bad. That's how a conversation works.

    Likewise, if someone doesn't want to "crawl over the self-embedded word-vomit to get to the part they actually NEED", they don't actually have to. They glance at the length of my post and decide, "nope, not worth it" and ignore it. The mature thing to do.

    I do not hold it against anyone on these forums to not read my posts. They are frequently quite long and daunting. If they care, they'll read them. If they still care by the end of reading them, they'll throw me a reply and hope I reply in kind.

    If not... they let my posts fade into the ether.
     
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  15. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    I actually second @Tai_MT here. Using text sounds overrides all the other sounds you are trying to go for. How is the player supposed to hear your cutscene music for atmosphere when the text is going clack clack clack all over the place. Plus it adds a distraction while trying to read, and ADHD people don't need another distraction when trying to read your game (and BTW ADHD is also probably at least 20% of the population too).

    That's why I suggested at least make it an option you can turn off or on. That way you can please both groups.
     
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  16. HoneyBourbun

    HoneyBourbun Villager Member

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    I never said you couldn’t HAVE an opinion. I’m just saying that it’s extremely unhelpful to someone when they’ve got to dig for what they need, out of what you said.


    Also, take another look at my post. Where did I insult you, baby? Where did I “dismiss your opinion with insults”? And “social contract”?! The hell?!


    Actually, never mind all of the that. I’m not gonna continue the petty argument.


    But now that you’ve cut to the short version, it’s easier to understand your point better. Typewriting may be a stylistic choice, but it does personally help me with reading, and with eight billion people on the planet, I’m probably not alone. Not saying YOU’RE alone in your opinion, but I’m arguing that there’s more to typography than just the aesthetic.


    I agree that it would be best to turn it off if possible, but I’m not sure if that’s something that can be done. And it’s a “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” thing. No, I don’t play a game and think “hey why aren’t they using typography”. Some games will use it, some will not.


    Voice-acting is a nice substitute to typography, I’ll admit that, but it costs money to hire VAs, and can take forever to get the lines needed. Not to mention, that would be even more extra work to implement for sound. Every line would have to be its own audio clip, and rarely would you reuse anything more than once (in a different event, anyways). The biggest challenge in it would be finding the right VAs.


    And voice-acting is stylization itself and may or may not fit well with OP’s game; likewise, typography may fit the game’s aesthetics better. It’s not an impossible alternative, but it would be difficult to pull off, has a need for resources that not everyone has access to, and may not even work with the game concept itself. It’s something I’ll be looking into in the future for one of my game ideas, but the work that needs to be put into it could scare people away from the idea.

    It depends on how loud the sound is, I suppose. I’m for the ability to switch it off and on if it can be done.

    I have ADHD so I know what it’s like to be distracted by noises, but I’ve personally never been bothered by it. Of course, I don’t speak for the entire population who has ADHD (or dyslexia, I just brought it up because I know it’s a reading disability and they would be the most affected by how text is displayed).

    And the only game I can currently recall doing the text noises is Dragon Quest IX, and the noise for it was subtle. During the two “animated” cutscenes, the noise wasn’t there. But for the gameplay cutscenes, the noise was there. Rarely was it an annoyance. I can’t say it was perfect, but it can be pulled off if done right, I think.
     
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  17. Aesica

    Aesica undefined Veteran

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    I think the big takeaway from this is something like this: Just make it an option, like so:

    Text Sounds: On/Off
    Instant Text: On/Off

    People will have strong opinions about nearly anything you can think of, even if it might seem trivial to you. I recall seeing a comment somewhere on these forums stating that all dogs/cats needed to bark/meow when interacted with, and let me tell you, that kind of thing was nowhere near being on my radar.

    It's impossible to please everyone, so as long as what you're making pleases you as well as the general majority of players, it's fine. Personally, I can take or leave text sounds, or even instant text as long as it isn't gratingly slow, and as long as I can press a button to instantly finish rendering it. I'm pretty sure most people feel the same way, too.
     
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  18. CuddleFox

    CuddleFox Furry Veteran

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    I think everything should serve the narrative, and that a sound effect can also describe a character or the tone he uses if you make one for each character.
    And that a boring sound may suit a character you want to make annoying.
    Annoying the player with a sound is not systematic, if you know how to manage your sound bank correctly.
    It's not a question of "We can't please everyone" it's a question of "Do it right"
     
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  19. somenick

    somenick Veteran Veteran

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    In general, I do not like text sounds. If you want to add this feature, cool, but at least make it possible to turn it off.

    All in all, I also prefer when dialogs show up fast. I tend to read fast.
     
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  20. Tai_MT

    Tai_MT Veteran Veteran

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    @HoneyBourbun

    Okay, I gotta laugh a little. The "Short Version" is actually 3x as long as the original version. You appreciate the massive version far more. That's definitely a first for me. :D

    Okay, now I got to go through your post again to clarify a few things.

    1. Yes, you did say I couldn't have an opinion.
    This doesn't even count the opening paragraph you wrote where you imply that I shouldn't voice an opinion if it isn't nicey nice sunshine rainbows (how dare I tell someone that if they included something I found annoying that I would mute their game! It's not like that information could be valuable to a game dev!).

    2. You insulted me in a couple ways. The opening paragraph that paints me as a bad person for voicing my opinion, the paragraph that characterizes my points as "word vomit", the assertion that an opinion that is "my way or the highway" is a bad thing (especially when it comes to personal enjoyment, which is silly when you consider the large amount of things any individual person will not eat because of these same biases and will have 'my way or the highway' mentality on their meals), the passive aggressive assertions that I don't care about people who have dyslexia or who read slower or comprehend less than I do (in fact, my suggestion for displaying the whole block of text at once is largely because these particular problems pertain to myself, which makes it an interesting case), then the assertion that my opinion isn't an opinion that lists either a pro or a con to the system and that it's essentially "off topic" as a result.

    Oh, so many ways you've decided to be passive aggressively insulting to me.

    But, if none of what I've interpreted here was your intention... Then, I'm willing to count it as a misunderstanding and allow you to expand upon what you wrote in order to clarify your actual meaning. If it is not a misunderstanding, then I would appreciate at least an apology for making so many assumptions about my character.

    3. If you can turn the sounds off or on, yes that's ideal. It pulls me out of the game, so I appreciate being able to turn it off. However, my experience with such games that use it is... you can't turn it off. So, my only option is to just mute your entire game to avoid it. You've left me no alternative except to not play your game at all.

    4. I would simply not agree about typography being more than an aesthetic choice. It is implemented entirely as an aesthetic choice in every game that it is in. It sets a mood, and a player expectation. I would argue that the fact that it helps you read is probably a coincidental byproduct of the aesthetic. Especially when "Text Display Speed" is in every single RPG and it serves the exact purpose (by actual design) that your text typing sound does.

    5. I never said Voice Acting wouldn't be a huge burden to the developer or expensive. I only said that it would be a far better alternative that completely eliminates all the problems of people with issues reading. If a dev truly cares about making a game accessible to the type of people who have the stated reading issues, they would likely go with Voice Acting in order to make the game the most accessible to these people. However, most devs don't really think about making their game accessible to people with some sort of issue or other.

    I'll give you an example:

    I color coded my treasure chests so that players who could see a chest, but not get to it, would have an expectation of what is in it. A red chest contains a weapon, a blue one contains a piece of armor, a green one contains a consumable, and a yellow one contains a currency. One of the comments I read in response to this system was, "You should make it more accessible to the color blind." Oh, yes, hadn't considered that. There are people that are Red/Green colorblind and the colored chests would be wasted on them.

    So, now I had a choice to make. Recolor the chests to cater to the colorblind... or just write it off as "it doesn't matter all that much, it's an aesthetic choice on my part, it exists simply to take a little of the mystery out of the game for players".

    I didn't change it. Didn't seem worth it.

    I suspect a great many devs think this way about features. Colorblind Mode? I don't see a lot of games that have that. Dyslexic Mode? I don't see a lot of that either. It is not often that we, as devs, think about those who cannot interact with our games. Sad, but true. Still, as a result, we don't typically design any particular system or feature in a game with those people in mind. Because of this... I can, with confidence, tell you that the typewriter sound effects of text were never created to help people with Dyslexia or who were slow readers. 100% Stylistic Choice.

    6. If a game dev decides that they want the typing feature, I hope they've made a concession for me. If they didn't make a concession of perhaps turning it off for players like me... Then, they need to just understand that I will be refusing to interact with their game in the way they intended. I will mute their game (if I am not completely put off by it, and turn the game off to never play it). Nearly every gamer has some feature or issue with a game they feel this way about. If it's not text sounds, it's some feature. Level Scaling. Crafting. Random Encounters. Etcetera. Etcetera. At some point, a dev needs to decide whether or not they want to make small changes to their game to capture a larger audience, or if those changes compromise their vision of the game.

    I will never play Undertale. I suspect the devs are perfectly happy with that.

    Every dev needs to know at what point a player will turn off their game and not play it. Or, at what point they decide to never pick up a game. They then need to decide if that's okay, or if they want to reach a larger audience and it's not too much hassle to make a concession or two.
     
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