RMMV The End of Labyronia - Nerubis

Discussion in 'Ideas and Prototypes' started by Labyrinthine, Sep 9, 2018.

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  1. Labyrinthine

    Labyrinthine Artist/ Developer Veteran

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    The final chapter ending the Labyronia saga consisting of 3 main series games:

    "The World of Labyrinths - Labyronia"
    "Labyronia Elements"
    "The End of Labyronia - Nerubis"



    NERUBIS

    Labyronia paid a fatal price to end the demonic corruption. Along with a new intolerant ruler, the maze-covered world turned to a world of prison cells. The final judgement has been cast, and everyone is guilty.

    When a colossal angel statue appears in Labyronia, the people foresee their fate; the eve of summer marks the doomsday. The divine messenger becomes alive and destroys everything.

    You are Arres, the only one who can avert the catastrophe. To do this, you must gather your companions, travel through the four seasons and train for the coming battle. You have only one year to do this, but the keys of time are in your hand.

    If you fail, however, you will be forced to witness the apocalypse. Nerubis strikes with its burning sword, splitting mountains. Giant earthquakes emerge crushing all traces of order. Everything catches fire along with the blade, consuming the entire world into an endless sea of flames.


    Some planned features


    -Travel in time, back and forth the four seasons or just let the year go by its own weight.

    -Time of day changes in a realistic, seamless way.

    -There is no traditional leveling system. The gear you get from completing certain quests makes you more powerful and durable.

    -Help various people of the world in their troubles to gain more skills in a new "Binding System." This is different from the "Cue System" and "Drain Element System" from the earlier games, but this time the skills are even more important to survive harder battles.

    -Doing the quests are the main activity of the game. There are different quests for advancing the story and gaining new skills or gear.

    -Random battles are rare, and instead of giving you experience, you'll get useful items from them.

    -A subtle, ambient soundtrack.

    -A living world full of interesting characters and stories.

    -Emotional storyline with well-written party members. Their common main goal is to do all they can to prevent the upcoming destruction.

    -The world ends in the last day of summer in a climactic battle against Nerubis, the Wrath of God.

    -You might lose to Nerubis, probably multiple times. You must learn from your mistakes, as you escape back in time through the seasons to figure out new ways to defeat the enemy.

    -Who do you pray for when God himself is against you?


    The game is in a very early stage. Actual development has not yet started. As for the visuals, I will probably go for the route of combining custom art, rtp edits and resource edits like I did with Labyronia Elements.

    Anything to say about Nerubis? Would you like info to clarify more things about the gameplay, etc? All feedback or just general thoughts about the idea will be appreciated. This is especially interesting if you're already familiar with the series.

    Final note: (Edit:) The engine will be once again Vx Ace, since I concluded to prefer it to MV)

    Labyronia Series:
    The World of Labyrinths: Labyronia
    Labyronia Elements
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2018
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  2. eluukkanen

    eluukkanen Composer Veteran

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    Can't say much yet as you are still starting, but going to see where your development leads. Good luck :thumbsup-left:
     
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  3. Labyrinthine

    Labyrinthine Artist/ Developer Veteran

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    Thanks, luck is what I've been really needing lately!
     
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  4. Isabella Ava

    Isabella Ava Veteran Veteran

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    I have some suggestion for you:
    - make a smaller game (15 hours seem great)
    - You may want to have 'Skip Cutscene' function
    - Simple, eye-catching logo
    - Visual is real important, without an interesting visual i think the success chance of the game is very low...
    so either you should save money to hire an artist or team up with an artist
    - Don't spend money for sound tracks, spend it for artworks : |
    - Stop wasting time for Youtube = )
     
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  5. Labyrinthine

    Labyrinthine Artist/ Developer Veteran

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    I think the length of the game depends on the player and his progression methods this time. Therefore 20 hours could be enough.

    Perhaps it would be possible to defeat Nerubis in the very first cycle of the year, but then the player would have to do most things right in the world to gain the knowledge and skills to win. Then again, if the player spends the year doing nothing useful to train himself against Nerubis, he will probably lose and the game will therefore be longer since the player will have to return back in time to do more things.

    I'm not sure what you mean about the visuals, since there are no actual screenshots posted yet not counting the logo? Edit: Of course I'll try to make it as good-looking as possible in a reasonable time frame.

    About the logo, I originally just thought it would be a text only with no images, like a flaming "Nerubis" or something (eye-catching way). But for this, I would probably need another artist for the maximum quality (with optimal, clear resolutions and all). It's just that I'm broke so it's not really in the realm of possibility at this point. However, if my financial situation improves at some point I might do this.

    For me, music and sound effects are just as important if not more so as art in the game. Of course, I understand that when you try to sell something, it's the art mainly the people are looking at.

    At any rate, thank you for all your suggestions!
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
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  6. dark_angel555

    dark_angel555 Warper Member

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    I just created this account now just to post this cause it is important for me : Labyrinthine you are one of the best creators of RPG maker games to me - I played a lot of them and I am telling you that you know how to tell a story + make a game difficult just enough to be very enjoyable + add great music into it .

    With that said : I would have to disagree with almost everything Isabela Ava said ... Art is the most important thing in a game ? WTF ... I never bought a game for the art ... I couldn't care less ... The music is the most important for me + the story and gameplay ... Art is by far at the end for me. I am also a profesional street dancer and I cannot stress enough how important music/soundtrack is for me in an RPG game .. I instantly remember all the good memories asociated with a game when I hear a song from it EVERYTIME ... art and visuals dont do sheep for me.
    I also disagree with making a smaller game ... Labyronia elements was the best because it was also one of the longest RPG maker game I played and I LOVED IT FOR THAT among many other things . So far me making the game as long as possible if not as long as labyronia elements it's still perfect.

    Lastly : Isabela said "dont spend money for sound tracks ... spend it for artwork" ... I would say just the oposite it's the best option.
     
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  7. atoms

    atoms Veteran Veteran

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    In my opinion, I think a good balance is best. I actually like some points both @Isabella Ava and @dark_angel555 have suggested.

    By balance I mean have good game design first, that can come out through elements of story, gameplay, audio, artwork and originality.

    Depending on your main mechanics and how you want your game to turn out, like how do you want it to play out? Does it have optional content? How many party members in battle at a time? How many party members overall and other major characters? Are there dunegons, what are they like how do you want them to play out? Is there world maps or a single world map? 4 areas hub areas for "4 seasons"?

    Would help me have an idea in which direction to take these 5 elements in.

    At the moment thought I'm a bit confused by the whole presentation of your thread. I can't quite tell what the purpose and aim of this game is? I think there may be a more simpler way to explain the story so far and the features?

    Still, even with the confusion I may actually have been able to understand enough, but the aim of the game to travel through time, to for different points you call seasons, to find a way to try and stop some sort of antagonist?

    Have I read and understood that right?

    This also sounds good to me though

    If you can freely travel between the "four seasons" and it all plays out optionally for the player, then I can see ways to restrict them for a while as being a good thing. It seems like a sort of puzzle game to me.

    Also, this idea that the hero guy failed to defeat the antagonist 250 times is a bit odd to me. How did they survive the battle 250 times and is there a good reason to have that number? Just failed to defeat them once and finding a way to travel back in time to prevent a disaster seems good enough to me, but I might be missing something like a good reason you have for this?

    Could you eleborate on all this?
     
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  8. Labyrinthine

    Labyrinthine Artist/ Developer Veteran

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    @atoms
    In a nutshell, the single aim and purpose of the game is to prevent the end of the world by defeating the doomsday angel, Nerubis.

    "Depending on your main mechanics and how you want your game to turn out, like how do you want it to play out?"
    These things are still very much open. I think the main battle-related mechanic is probably the Binding System, which is a simple way of collecting skills of doing good deeds (aka sidequests) for the NPC:s. Better skills would be needed as the game progresses and gets harder. The main reason for the player to go on would be simply becoming powerful enough to defeat Nerubis. This might require doing a lot of sidequests (or should I call them the main quests in this case?)

    "Does it have optional content?"

    It might have something like the super bosses from Labyronia Elements. These were very hard bosses that were optional, but if you defeated 3 from each world you got better end game gear. Likely, I wouldn't reuse the same idea, though, but maybe something similar.

    "How many party members in battle at a time?"

    I think it's four, since there's just four playable characters in this game.

    "How many party members overall and other major characters?"

    See the above. Probably a bunch of other major characters to advance the story.

    "Are there dunegons, what are they like how do you want them to play out?"

    If there were some dungeons (which is not sure) they would be part of some sidequests, I believe, probably not counting the final dungeon leading straight to Nerubis. The player should be able to access the place quite early. One thing I've thought of, there are likely no world map battles, except on the roads. There are also no monster type of enemies.

    "Is there world maps or a single world map? 4 areas hub areas for "4 seasons"?

    A seemingly single world map, which changes visually when the season changes. I haven't started figuring out how to do this yet, so I can't say more at this point. Probably trying to use some script for it.

    The 250 times is just a number at this point that I would actually change for less at this point. 250 battles is actually too much, I think. That would wear out even the toughest bunch of heroes, so I'll probably change this...
    So, maybe they managed to get at Nerubis like 50 times or something, but the key here is despair: they lost every battle. Or more likely, all of this happens real time in the game, and the player will really lose a number of times, which would mean the number could be random starting from 1 -> any number, depending on the player's skills at the time. I might do it in a way which would require the player to lose at least once to experience the world's end.

    The game is in the very early phases so I might change many things currently mentioned before the completion.

    @dark_angel555
    Hey, thanks for your support! I appreciate a good soundtrack very high as well, to the point of getting it right was one of the most important things for me concerning Labyronia Elements. I can only thank the talented musicians I had the pleasure to work with. I wouldn't expect another OST of that scale for Nerubis, though. I might use more ambience and less "actual" music this time in general.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2018
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  9. atoms

    atoms Veteran Veteran

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    Thank you for the very in-depth response, that is much much much clearer to me now.

    I think, from everything you've said now, you have a good foundation for this game and while it can go in many different directions it all looks good and promising to me.

    I can see these mechanics and featured when combined together can work well. My only thoughts are on how the main characters will want to do all these side-quests and such and how they can tell that would tie in with trying to defeat the antagonist to save the world. So you'd want to have good motives and goals here that make sense for the main characters. If you want to expand the story further, then you can perhaps give each of the four main characters there own reasons for wanting to accomplish this goal. If you don't want to expand the story that far, then you can focus further more on the mechanics, skills and side-quests.

    Perhaps some skills don't need to be limited to side-quests and can be found as treasure chests or something similar on maps too.

    Super bosses or something similar sounds fine to me. My only thoughts though are to reward the player with something worth it with each optional boss, not just all three together. Anytime the player can feel rewarded I think that makes good game design.

    If there aren't dungeons though, then how do you plan for the party members to fight enemies and bosses? By dungeons my definition was, I just mean places to fight monsters, like caves, forests, fields, that sort of thing.

    I also really like your idea for 4 different seasons and the game playing out differently with each one. However I think it would be good if the player can switch between them easily instead of having to wait a long time to do it, so long as this idea I am presented to you fits with the mechanics and story.

    Nerubis could also do with work by having a strong motive and reason for wanting to end the world. So he doesn't just become a plot device for the sake of it but something with a reason behind what he does.

    Now my only point that I'm still unsure about is the number of times the heroes were defeated. What I can't get my head around is how they could fight Nerubis 50 times even, escape each time and not defeat him too. It all seems a bit odd to me, that's not to say you can't do this or it's not right, I might just be missing some information you thought of, but I can't wrap my head around it otherwise.

    Hope this feedback helps you out.
     
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  10. Labyrinthine

    Labyrinthine Artist/ Developer Veteran

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    @atoms
    Yeah, the player should be able to switch between seasons. The plot motive of Nerubis becomes clear right from the starting scene, and even more in-depth if the player is familiar with the World of Labyrinths: Labyronia and Labyronia Elements, since this is the third part of the trilogy. Hopefully I'd be able to make it work independently too so the players wouldn't have to play the games before it.

    Your idea with not limiting the quests for skills is good and something that I was pondering too, so important treasures and such will be added. There is, however, probably some sort of main quest line leading the story, but it means the player needs to figure it out himself instead of going through goal posts, and it's definitely not linear in any sense. Perhaps the "labyrinths" in this game are not so much actual labyrinths, but more like labyrinthine quest lines crisscrossing within the one year-period the game is based in.

    As for your final question, I changed the game's general description below the NERUBIS subtext. The times the player would take to defeat it would depend on his skills, gear and other stuff like that. And for these, the labyrinthine Binding System questlines, which might or might not require the player to travel back (and possibly forth) in time repeatedly, depending on how fast and well he progresses through the quests.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
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  11. dark_angel555

    dark_angel555 Warper Member

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    Everything sounds good and clear but I am also confused about the part where Nerubis defeats you and you go back in time and try to reach him again ... why not just use a save game before Nerubis fight and try again ? Maybe I just didnt formed a good strategy first against him and he killed me with a super attack or something and I didn't know he had that ...
    Also if we want to fully enjoy the game to its maximum potential it's worth exploring all 4 seasons and do all sidequests in the game before defeating nerubis ... because if you manage to defeat him somehow earlier without exploring everything ... you miss out on side quests and exploration ... not entirely sure if I got this part right or not.
     
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  12. Labyrinthine

    Labyrinthine Artist/ Developer Veteran

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    @dark_angel555
    You could probably save before the Nerubis fight, but would it be useful when the clock is ticking and you'd lack the skills to fight him? One thing I should mention is that Nerubis can be fought only after its awakening in summer. Before that, it exists in a certain way but you can't fight it. This way would require you to go through all the seasons.

    Another route I may take is that you could awaken it early time by just going there at any point and hitting him once. This would probably not be smart though, at least in the beginning of the game, if you 'd only be able to get some necessary skill against him the next season or the one after it.

    I would create it in a way you would very likely not be able to defeat it in the first time, unless you were super fast and knew exactly what to do in the non-linear game world with cryptic quests. This would basically need a guide or incredible luck and super skills.

    I would make it imperative for the player to have certain skills from the quests to defeat Nerubis, otherwise the player would lose even at max level (if the normal leveling system even exists in this game). It could be made possible using an example like this: the player can only get a certain skill in the winter, but the means to get this skill would be acquired in the summer, just before the end of the world. So, you would have to travel back in time at this point to get it.
    I could also make it so the player would not have the time travelling skill in the first year, but would somehow be sent back to the past without it after being defeated by the end of the world (in or out of battle with Nerubis) and then acquire the method for time travelling. In this way, at least one defeat against Nerubis would be guaranteed.

    One possibility would be that the player could only travel towards past. Perhaps he would only have the option of traveling into the beginning of the first season. Of course, this would contain the risk the player would have to "relive" way too many things repeatedly. I still have a lot of thinking for the optimal way of doing it all.

    At any rate, I'm sure to find it and I'll try to make the entire thing challenging, overall :) (I always tend to do that anyway)
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2018
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  13. dark_angel555

    dark_angel555 Warper Member

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    all right ... sounds complicated but I have faith in you ... I know you know what you are doing in the end. I am curious which characters from labyronia elements get to join Arres . Me personally I always had a soft spot for Durius and the thief character ... man I love picklocking and pickpocketing in RPGs.
     
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  14. atoms

    atoms Veteran Veteran

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    While it is fine it's complicated, I think the major most important point out of everything is to make sure it's not too confusing or complex to the player. Nothing you said here by itself seems to have to be too confusing to me, so just try and break each part down into simple sentences for the player so they won't be confused by it either. Try and make their goals simple, I think having one main quest may actually be good, and then the player should quickly know this type of game requires focusing on side quests and exploring a lot of different areas.

    I'm still unsure about the Nerubis fight at the beginning, it may be better as backstory since he can't be beaten, or as the prologue and the very start/beginning of the game.

    Try and keep the characters goals and motives clear and in the game clear to the player from the start to anytime they change if you can. That's sort of the focus point of the players.

    I do like and see most of your ideas joining and combining well together otherwise for a good game. Of course as the foundation , as it'd also need to be applied, but I truly believe you can do that.

    Good luck.
     
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  15. Labyrinthine

    Labyrinthine Artist/ Developer Veteran

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    @dark_angel555
    @atoms
    Thank you both for advice and support. I'll be trying my best with the game!
     
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  16. Conflictx3

    Conflictx3 Veteran Veteran

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    i never played labyronia so im pretty clueless on the subject but this nerubis fellow and having the option to beat him before hand or appropriately at the end sound devilishly close to Chrono Trigger's overarching lavos angle, which was an amazing one but as a personal player i only tried to fight him "before my time" when i was bored and about to turn the game off anyway, it was never with intent to actually beat the game early as i would have felt i missed alot the game had to offer.

    with that said, making it so you could defeat nerubis ahead of time shouldn't be just a difficult task but have a worth while ending in and of itself for beating him early, idk how much harder developing the game would be with that in mind but for example maybe taking out nerubis early would cause some strange mini adventure or bonus zone to appear after his untimely defeat that you couldn't normally get playing all the way through.

    long story short im trying to say regardless if the player plays the short way or the long way there rewarded either way with content exclusive to each playthrough, im guessin this is best comparable to the persona series which im sure partly inspired this idea anyway, i love beating the baddies early to have more time to do the daily nonsense, and i also loved enjoying daily activities and saving my responsibilities to the last possible day to fight the big bad of the month, both felt rewarding if not mildly.
     
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  17. Labyrinthine

    Labyrinthine Artist/ Developer Veteran

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    @Conflictx3
    I didn't really think about Chrono Trigger as I was pondering about this idea, but it does seem to sound similar. The real influence for the game however is Zelda: Majora's Mask.
    Your suggestion concerning different endings/ rewards is good, and I'll be implementing it in the game in some form or the other. Thanks! : -D
     
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  18. dark_angel555

    dark_angel555 Warper Member

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    @Conflict you should play labyronia series as soon as possible ... it's a question of "when you do it " not "if you do it" .
     
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  19. Conflictx3

    Conflictx3 Veteran Veteran

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    I just might I been out of the RM Wolrd for 6+ years and I wanna play a few great ones before I get into mine to get inspired on what's out there
     
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  20. Labyrinthine

    Labyrinthine Artist/ Developer Veteran

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    Update Info about the game... deleted! I had some stuff here but I decided to rethink about it...
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2018
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