The engine's(MV) worth

Discussion in 'RPG Maker MV' started by ssunlimited, Oct 17, 2015.

  1. Wavelength

    Wavelength Pre-Merge Boot Moderator

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    In my opinion the ~$70 is trivial compared to the amount of time I put into making my game, the quality of the game I can make, and the potential payoff (monetary, influece, and psychological payoff) of hopefully creating something great.

    So if you think that RPG Maker is going to be a good platform for making your game, then yes, I think it's absolutely worth dropping $70 or $80 on.  If you think there are other platforms that can make your game better, then it wouldn't really be a smart buy at any price.
     
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  2. sokita

    sokita Crawling back to the surface Veteran

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    Many people got their game into Steam with VXA, ranged free-$5 with many positive review (and some has very negative review). Everyone on Steam that give review at the store page must bought the game first (assuming the normal condition without developer giving away the keys). With MV, you got new potential market which is mobile game market and maybe web game. In my opinion, it depends on the ability of your team to develop, gather the crowd, and marketing you game. This engine, I believe is just a very basic engine that simplify RPG making.  
     
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  3. DarknessFalls

    DarknessFalls Rpg Maker Jesus - JS Dev. Veteran

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    Steam can be very opinionated and full of trolls. its almost like positing a game to steam is baiting the trolls ... 
     
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  4. erikmidnatt

    erikmidnatt Mercenary Wizard possessed by an Evil Spirit Veteran

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    $1150? While someone could spend that much to get similar assortment of stock assets you could also spend a ton less.

    Speaking of Unity, forget the Unity Pro price. Pro or Free, stock Unity isn't going to make an RPG, unless you are a pro at programing. So you need to find some tools to make it a better option for RPGs. The most popular framework for RPG on Unity is $100 but it's a chore to use(very complete tool, but huge time investment to get basics running). Don't expect to have any stock art, or even character/monster/classes/skill templates set up with that initial fee...You'll need to get the assets yourself and set up everything from scratch...

    Time is very important for many of us. What made me look at RPG Maker again recently was my frustration with all the Unity RPG solutions available. Free or paid. You can spend days setting up the framework just to have your first battle. Massive time sink. Unity is a great tool but it would require lots of trial and error to see how different things work. It's going to be a big commitment.

    RPG Maker's strength is the complete package. It all works together seemlessly without hours or weeks of integration work. If you have ever used code or even art assets from multiple sources in a single project you know the challenges there. That makes the $80 a pretty nominal fee if you value your time. If you can live with RPG Maker's limitations and quirks you can get a lot done, a lot faster. It's easier to use and doesn't have a direct competitor.

    If I were to guess, it is anywhere from $300-$500 worth of tools and resources. But more if there was a way to measure how much everyones' time was worth. Because if you added time savings, it would be worth more.
     
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  5. DarknessFalls

    DarknessFalls Rpg Maker Jesus - JS Dev. Veteran

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    I think its worth what you put in to it.
     
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  6. lPaladinl

    lPaladinl Veteran Veteran

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    RPG Maker is extremely cheap by comparison to other Game Makers and Development Kits out there, but it's also one of the most limited development kits you can go with.

    RPG Maker is designed to make just what it says on the tin. RPGs. More specifically JRPGs in nature. When you want to branch out and produce a different kind of game, say a Platformer, an Action RPG, 3d Games like FPSes, etc. etc., It's extremely difficult, and in some cases improbable or just not worth your time bothering to do so within RPG Maker. (Though it's possible that MV is making things more possible).

    That said, people have actually done that in the past with RPG Maker and made Platformers or Action RPGs before. It's easy to argue that they weren't the best examples of the genre though, given how many limitations RPG Maker put on those people.

    Then compare RPG Maker to something more comparable in pricetag. Game Maker is usually around $200-300 for the proper license (give or take whatever you need for their other plugins), or Fusion I think runs up to $500 in general for a full suite.

    Those programs give you much more possibility than RPG Maker, because they aren't software designed to make specifically more classic varations of RPG games. Usually the limitations found in Game Maker or Fusion is that 3d Games are still much more difficult (without being very simplistic at least). But you still have a lot more potential for making different genres or games. You also would have a lot more control over your game, even if you were making an RPG in one of those.

    Game Makers like Game Maker and Fusion are definitely more intermediate. You will want to have better understanding of general programming, even if you don't touch the scripting in those software. They're not setup to make a specific type of game, and you will have to come up with producing your own game more from the ground up. You won't have simple systems in place, like Menus, Stat systems, battle systems, or even more detailed ways to handle the artwork and sprites. It's a lot more raw while still being more simple than actual programming.

    The downside from going from RPG Maker to Game Maker or Fusion, besides the price of course, is that they're a bit more difficult to use. You will need more programming knowledge to get around making a full game, even with the drag and drop options. RPG maker simplifies things to the point where you don't even have to feel like you're programming anything to manage putting together a basic RPG game.

    And then you have Unity which is a full 3d development kit with plenty of support in 2d applications. It's on an entirely different league from "Game Makers" and is more akin to Unreal Engine, Cryengine, or other "Big Boy" Development Kits that are used and created by the AAA Games industry. Unity however decided to break the mold and is extremely open with their payment plans and rights management (as people have said, you can make a game for free in Unity, sell it, and they will allow you to do so within certain restrictions. Unity is also Royalty free, as are RPG Maker and Game Makers usually). 

    To use Unity, you will really need to have some background in programming. There's plenty of tools to get you started, but unless you're going to survive solely on the work of others by purchasing plugins and assets, you're most likely not going to get far with making a complete game. It's a different experience from Game Makers that are half the price, and even further from RPG Maker and it's ease of use design.

    There's definitely more real value in Unity as far as what it's capable of than RPG Maker or even Game Makers in-between. But RPG Maker has a lot of value in what their slogan happens to be. "So easy a child could use it, powerful enough that a developer can use it".

    With RPG Maker you can produce a full game without knowing a lick of programming. You never have to see a script if you don't want to. Yet it has the ability to let you get your feet wet and learn scripting (or in proper cases, get scripting from others) to take it to a new level. Especially with RPG Maker MV, with the entire system apparently using Javascript and the ability to overwrite basically the entire entire via Plugins from what I've seen. (I'm still expecting limitations, but it's a huge step forward regardless for RPG Maker in general).

    Each engine has it's own benefits and downsides. The price tag doesn't necessarily mean that you'll find more value in a pricier product though. It really depends on how much programming knowledge you have or want to learn and use, what kind of limitations you know you need to work around (which is what most of programming ends up being), how much time you want to put in to make what type of game, etc. etc.

    I also forgot to mention that platform support is a huge factor between each development kit you look at. RPG Maker has had one of the most limited selections for the longest time (I believe they only supported Windows, and typically were behind on current Windows versions until recently). Even with MV we're apparently getting greatly expanded support, but it's still a bit behind. (No Linux support for example, at least not at this time.)

    You not only have to look at time investment to get what you need done, but also how much experience you have with programming, and with what languages, and which platforms you need to support, to decide which one is best for you. 
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2015
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  7. ConkerMich

    ConkerMich Veteran Veteran

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    I'm experienced in programming and I still think RPG Maker is worth the money

    but I love engines.. They're very exciting to me 
     
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  8. DarknessFalls

    DarknessFalls Rpg Maker Jesus - JS Dev. Veteran

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    With this one having the code "open" like this, where we have no hidden classes, its down right amazing
     
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  9. Cazziuz

    Cazziuz Veteran Veteran

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    How much is RPG Maker MV worth? one way to look at it is : 80 usd 

    another way to look at it is individual pricing of the components.: a couple thousand to how ever much you might think.

    another is what the program is worth to you , ie how easy it is to make games and such compared to other similar programs.

    but i prefer to honestly think of its worth as very low , simply cause very few RM titles are taken seriously... if you say yeah im deving with a RM engine , odds are your gonna get laughed at by most anyone who is serious about GameDev , this is a hobby engine, not a money engine. 

    once you realize that , then any of the other ways of pricing what the engine is worth become valid, IMO

    **Yeah im probably gonna get flamed for saying that , but its the truth as far as i can tell.
     
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  10. C-C-C-Cashmere

    C-C-C-Cashmere Veteran Veteran

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    To be honest, I think you shouldn't be asking how much monetary value the engine is worth, but how much the engine will be worth to you. If I buy a $1500 Swiss Army Knife but I'm too afraid of cutting myself to use it, that tool is worth nothing to me. Whereas I could buy a $2 belt and wear it every single day of my life to stop my pants from falling down. Ask yourself if MV is worth $80 to you, and if so, go for it. Otherwise go skiing or something.
     
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  11. Mouser

    Mouser Veteran Veteran

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    Unity's standard licenses do NOT include source code.

    You can get a source license for Unity, but those are negotiated individually, so don't expect to see any figures about what they cost floating around.

    The best deal on a "source" license for a top grade engine would be Unreal's - they only want 5% your gross revenue as royalties. You can still negotiate other license terms with them, of course, but back when that was the only way to license the engine they went for around $500k IIRC (although they come with AWESOME support compared to anything else - basically you get a guy assigned to your project on their end). They also wouldn't even talk to you until had a proven track record to prevent any low-quality 'stigma' from becoming attached to their engine.
     
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  12. AlecMachet

    AlecMachet Veteran Veteran

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    It isn't really accurate to say there's a stigma against "games made with RPG Maker." There's a stigma against "RPG Maker Games." Part of this is because of the ubiquity of RTP assets in commercially available RM games, and a great deal of it had to do with the screen resolution issues that previous versions of the software suffer from. Primarily, though, it's because there are a huge number of poorly balanced, mediocre RPGs that are being sold on Steam because of how easy RPG Maker is to use.

    As long as your game isn't immediately recognizable as an "RPG Maker Game," then you bypass the stigma altogether. Look at LISA: The Painful, for example. Unfortunately, this means that games with RTP art assets aren't commercially viable outside of niche markets.
     
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  13. Mouser

    Mouser Veteran Veteran

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    Keep in mind when looking at 'stock' assets available commercially, the price shown is for a license that generally excludes games. Dig a little deeper and you can generally find the 'gaming' license costs. You might be surprised at how much a single image or short sound loop will cost you.
     
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  14. Ultima2876

    Ultima2876 Veteran Veteran

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    To hire an artist to make this many assets (of this quality) royalty-free would probably cost you in the $xxxx. That's just the assets. I think RPG Maker MV is incredible value for money, easily worth 10 times the price.

    There are lots of RPG Maker games that have sold well and not been laughed at at all. To The Moon, Eternal Eden, Always Sometimes Monsters, Staless Umbra etc. Now that we can hit mobile, I think there is a lot of value in it.
     
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  15. whitesphere

    whitesphere Veteran Veteran

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    I think RPG Maker MV is a steal at $80.  For basically the cost of 2 AAA games, you can easily create JRPG style games.  And now, not only is MV multi-platform from the ground up, the entire runtime engine has the source.  So, if you want to tinker, you can now change literally anything in the game. But, starting from a working example is invaluable, to say the least.

    For example, in VX Ace, a lot of people asked "How can I make this game multiplayer?"  The answer was:  There is no official way.  The closest people came was by creating custom DLLs and calling them from the scripting engine, but those were never well supported.

    Another poster said within a WEEK of MV being released, they had a multiplayer engine working, due to the open nature of MV, and the fact that it uses the full Javascript language, rather than a stripped down subset of Ruby.

    And, as others have pointed out, to have a commercial license to produce games with all of these graphics and sound resources, easily saves you hundreds or thousands of dollars.  Granted, there is a stigma associated with the RPG Maker games, because a fair number of people created absolute crap shovelware RPG Maker RPGs as cheap money grabs.

    Make no mistake, creating a GOOD RPG is very difficult, because everything needs to come together as a great package, like the classic JRPGs Final Fantasy IV or Chrono Trigger.  But RPG Maker MV gives you the tools so you don't have to do low level tinkering, or hunt down lots of resources, unless you want to.

    If you want to make a JRPG styled game, RPG Maker MV is well suited to do just that.  And, if you make enough high quality RPGs, you might even be able to earn a full time living off the proceeds.  

    So, the tl;dr version is: It's worth far more than $80, and an excellent tool to create JRPGs.
     
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  16. KisaiTenshi

    KisaiTenshi Veteran Veteran

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    You mean one AAA game. MV costs the same amount as Mario Maker or Fallout 4.

    Anyway with MV you get:

    1) A complete editor and game engine

    2) The source code to the game engine (something you only get with the highest tier of things like Unity)

    3) Cross-platform out of the box (you have to pay extra to support mobile and game consoles with most game engines)

    4) License to use the assets without paying additional licensing or royalties as long as it's used with the RPG Maker series

    So it's certainly worth the 80$. A better question is , are these other products worth their cost?

    Unity is 1500$ (or 75$/mo) per device target. So it would cost at least 4500$, AND, nearly the same amount to upgrade every major version number. That doesn't include any assets to use. Unity is the only game engine that can be used on the Wii U under a indie license.

    Gamemaker is 800$, or 150$+ 300$ per export target, does not include the html5 target by default with the 150$ version. No assets either. It's somewhat more flexible in output targets (with the option for game consoles, like Unity.)

    Construct 2, is largely the only thing that can be compared on a 1:1 basis with RPG Maker MV. 130$ or 430$, includes some assets, and also uses HTML5. The difference between the 130$ and 430$ version is how much money you're allowed to make with it. 

    If your target is the Wii U, then you can only use Unity or a game engine that has a HTML5 export (so the web framework is used) as an indie developer. Getting indie content on the Xbox One or PS4 is much more difficult and expensive regardless of what you use.

    None of the alternatives actually include a complete "game engine" unlike RPG Maker MV, so you can't just click "RPG game" and magically everything works. However if you were not intending on making a JRPG, perhaps one of these alternatives are a better option.
     
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  17. kaukusaki

    kaukusaki Awesome Programmer Extraordinaire Veteran

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    If you have the time and skill you can make more than jrpgs with MV. I use it as a rapid development tool and custom music/graphics are made in house. Its aweome and I'm surprised it's so cheap. The other devs in the office use agk, fusion or construct (for mobil dev) while I was debating game maker (and crying over the $800 price tag while flunking Ruby classes.) So when i got wind of mv and it being open and using JS, the cash i set aside for gm went to mv. I saved myself a $720 headache and trips to the plasma center. Lolz

    Take your time and you can pump out an awesome game. Its not the tool but how you work it
     
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  18. ConkerMich

    ConkerMich Veteran Veteran

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     The argument for art licenses is a bad one. 

    1. for commercial games people will not buy rpg maker games with default art. its considered lazy.

    2. for fan games/free games people will use any assets they want, i know its wrong and as a artist myself I hate it, but its the way things are. 
     
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  19. Ultima2876

    Ultima2876 Veteran Veteran

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    Within the RPG Maker community it is because we are in the know, but Joe Bloggs on Steam is not going to know the difference. Very few RPG Maker projects get finished to the point where they can be sold, so the average gamer does not recognise RPG Maker assets -- that's an assumption we make because we are familiar with them. This will be even more the case with mobile. Eternal Eden used RTP graphics and no one batted an eyelid - there was no problem there whatsoever. In fact, it was so successful that the developer began working on a remake for the Nintendo DS.

    I'm happy to bet that any RPG Maker game with substance that uses RTP assets will have no trouble with selling (well, no additional trouble on top of the usual challenges of selling any indie game!) due to the use of those assets. When people download a retro style RPG, they want a great story, good characters, fun gameplay... 
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 31, 2015
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  20. kaukusaki

    kaukusaki Awesome Programmer Extraordinaire Veteran

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    Hence doing custom art in house (if you have folks on your team to do so, or you can do it yourself).

    When I make a prototype, I use the inbuilt graphics until I can create new ones. Really y'all, it's not difficult.

    And frankenspriting isn't the end of the world. No different from using a template.

     
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