The Resource WIP thread 2

[Sharm]

@Quigon:  Interesting.  I think the best way to make it obvious that it's not grass is to go for a very obviously not organic pattern, like diamonds or fleur-de-lis.

@KanaX:  I could tell you were mimicking her style, you did a pretty good job with it.  It's hard to give good feedback with the way it's set up, many of the items are black and it has a black background.  It'd be great if you had a mockup or show how it looks mapped, I've found it easier to tell if a tile is working that way.  I think if you had a mockup you'd have realized that you've got an inconsistent light source.  Some items are lit from the left, others from the right, some I can't tell where the light is supposed to be coming from at all.  Look up "pillow shading", you've got some problems with it on the smaller items, the books are where it's the most obvious.  There's a lot here, you've obviously put a lot of effort into it so far.

 

[KanaX]

@Sharm, you might make a good point. I didn't really have a method of placing light and shadows (which I regret in retrospect), so I would invert certain material AFTER the shadow/light placement. Could you give me some examples?

 

[Sharm]

What kind of examples?

 

[KanaX]

Where the shading is wrong.

 

[Candacis]

@OmegaWeapon:

Love that tree, very nice style!

@Dancing Drake:

I talked to PandaMaru and she has agreed that it is okay to share my edits of her template. It is not finished yet, I'm still working on the first actor:

I think, the sideview version could use some improvements, so any advice?

@KanaX:

Normally the light source of the rtp comes from the top left. So the lighter places on your tiles should be on the (top) left side and the darker places on the (bottom) right. For instance, you did this with this black beds and the black bed canopy, but you didn't do it with the dressers at the bottom of your sheet or with the desk. There the light seems to come from the right. And you have some wooden red chairs where the light seems to come from the bottom left. I would go over every tile and work on the correct shading a bit more.

 

[KanaX]

@Candacis Ah, thank you very much.

 

[Nirwanda]

Hmm, I'm attempting the silly task of spriting a face, when i just can't wrap my head around how to colour even in real life. Hair, is specially confusing to me.

First I tried to colour it sort of randomly, going by instinct:

Then I tried to follow some sort of logical pattern:

Both look artificial and clunky to me, though. Any advices on this or any other error you might see here?

BTW 1:

Do you think her eyes look better being closer?

BTW 2: As a point of reference, this is my lame attempt at imitating the classic Tactics Ogre style, though using a brighter color pallete:

(Sorry for the long post)

 

[Schlangan]

As ksjp17 suggested in the wrong thread where I posted this, here's my current work, for which I have a lot of trouble ; I'm trying to create my own facesets, but the previous result was somehow disappointing, so I started to create a new base on a 3/4 view. However, I'm not used at all to color drawings outside of pixel arts size, so any critics, suggestions, comments or advises would be welcome !


@ksjp17 : I tried to correct the nose a little bit.


Here's the current version, as opposed to the previous one :

 

[DancingDrake]

@Candacis

That's awesome to hear. I sort of see what you mean about the side views. Being as I'm no expert I may be wrong but I feel as though it is something to do with the face rather than the body. It may just be the shape of the base for the face but I feel as though something is off around there. However it isn't that noticeable when at actual size. Other than that I think they look really nice and are proportioned properly.

 

[Nirwanda]

Anyway, I've toyed a little more with her hair, zoomed in and all now...for some reason.

Spoiler

 

[Sharm]

It hasn't even been 24 hours yet.  I can't figure out your light source, that's probably why you can't get the hair to work.

 

[Nirwanda]

Really sorry, I just randomly felt like overposting. Now I feel embarrased.

It's just that I was really anxious, because of how exciting it felt to make something a little less than sucky. I guess I was wrong in that front .

I can understand light sources in concept, but I have the hardest time actually applying them to complex forms like hair. If you want to know, I was trying to convey that the light source was coming from the front of the girl and a little to our right.

 

[Sharm]

Okay, so think about where your shadows are coming from and why.  You've got all the highlights of her hair surrounding the center of her face as if the light source is from the center of her face.  If it's really a little to the right the hair on the right side of her head would be highlighted instead.  Why is her right cheek in shadow but not her forehead?  Why is the top of her head in shadow, is there no light coming from above?  If so, then why is there a highlight on the top of her cheekbone?  Which side of the nose should be shadowed?  You should also be careful not to just emulate what you see without trying to understand why it's there.  What is that shadowed bit on the neck below the chin supposed to be representing?

 

[Nirwanda]

I hope those weren't where rethorical questions, because I'm about to try to explain the reasoning behind them to the best of my very limited abilities:

But, before that, thanks a lot Sharm, you're always so awesome.

Okay, so think about where your shadows are coming from and why.

Done. I guess it goes without saying but I'm completely ignoring the torso for now...

Spoiler

You've got all the highlights of her hair surrounding the center of her face as if the light source is from the center of her face.

Hmm I imagined the light like a cone shape coming from the right and focusing on the center of her face. That's why the center is the brightest, while both edges are darker, though the left edge has more shading, since it's farther away from the cone. I....don't get how lightning actually works, do I?

 If it's really a little to the right the hair on the right side of her head would be highlighted instead.

Well, since I thought of the light as a cone, i highlited the left part of the right side of her hair, since it's closer to the center of that imaginary cone.

Spoiler

(BTW : I said our right, not hers, so the left side of her head is highlighted, sorry for not being more clear)

Sorry if it is confusing

Why is her right cheek in shadow but not her forehead?

Because of the cone idea again, the center of her face is where the cone is ponting to, that's why the sides, (once again the left one more than the right one) are shaded, while the forehead, which is in the center, has almost no shade. I think I unconciously imagined the light source as if it was coming from a flashlight. But that's a terible way to think lightning, specially when it's not supposed to be that.

  Why is the top of her head in shadow, is there no light coming from above?  If so, then why is there a highlight on the top of her cheekbone?

Well, I wanted to use only one light source, to make it look a little moody, besides making it relatively easier on me. I thought that since cheekbones are sort of "prominent" (i'm not sure that's the right word in english, I mean they stick out) they were always closer to a frontal lightsource and therefore should be highlighted.

 Which side of the nose should be shadowed? You should also be careful not to just emulate what you see without trying to understand why it's there.

Yeah, I screwed up there, I guess the left side should be shadowed since the light source is coming from the right, I got caught up in the like 10+ references I was looking at >_<

  What is that shadowed bit on the neck below the chin supposed to be representing?

Spoiler

1-The darkness right below her neck? Is it wrongly represented?

2-You're more likely refering to this one, actually, that's a lazy line that shouldn't be there. I was going to make a downward line to represent neck muscle, ending around that area and that's why I left it there....but forgot to erase it. Sorry.

Sorry about the length of this reply, but properly understanding lightning has always drove me nuts and I took this as a golden opportunity to consult an expert. I hope I'm not abusing the priviledge too much...

 

[Sharm]

I hope those weren't where rethorical questions, because I'm about to try to explain the reasoning behind them to the best of my very limited abilities:

Yes and no. The end result of your art should be self explanatory, you're not going to be able to sit and spell things out for the people looking at it. So the point of the questions was to get you thinking about those sorts of issues and address them in the art instead of in words. But I also wanted to know the answers so I could better help you towards the result you're actually going for and not just tell you how to make things look the way I like them.

But, before that, thanks a lot Sharm, you're always so awesome.

*^_^* You're welcome.

Hmm I imagined the light like a cone shape coming from the right and focusing on the center of her face. That's why the center is the brightest, while both edges are darker, though the left edge has more shading, since it's farther away from the cone. I....don't get how lightning actually works, do I?

You're doing better than most. Most of what you shaded was according to that source, it was the unusual lighting choice and the few errors that made it confusing.

Because of the cone idea again, the center of her face is where the cone is ponting to, that's why the sides, (once again the left one more than the right one) are shaded, while the forehead, which is in the center, has almost no shade.

The way you drew the light source had the cheek in the center, with the chin and the forehead about the same distance away from the light so your explanation doesn't make much sense to me. Either way if the hair is casting a shadow on the cheek it should also be casting a shadow on the forehead.

I think I unconciously imagined the light source as if it was coming from a flashlight. But that's a terible way to think lightning, specially when it's not supposed to be that.

It could work but I think you should only have a flashlight light source if that's specifically the look you want. In a world where you're running around in sunny fields it would look terrible, in some horror game where the lighting is actually a flashlight it would work just fine. 

Well, I wanted to use only one light source, to make it look a little moody, besides making it relatively easier on me. I thought that since cheekbones are sort of "prominent" (i'm not sure that's the right word in english, I mean they stick out) they were always closer to a frontal lightsource and therefore should be highlighted.

The cheekbones being prominent are fine (yes, you used the word correctly), but with the light source where it is you wouldn't be highlighting the tops, you'd be highlighting further down where they actually are closest to the light source, more in the center. Also you wouldn't have half the highlight inside the shadow with only one light source.


Since you want one source you should get rid of the light on the back of her head. Unless she was standing right next to a white wall it wouldn't exist.

1-The darkness right below her neck? Is it wrongly represented?

That wasn't what I was refering too, but yes. That's where the chin is casting a shadow on the neck, it would only be a flat line like that if her face was actually flat. It should be more of a U shape with the lowest part in the center of her neck.

2-You're more likely refering to this one, actually, that's a lazy line that shouldn't be there. I was going to make a downward line to represent neck muscle, ending around that area and that's why I left it there....but forgot to erase it. Sorry.

Yes, that's what I meant. It was either a neck muscle or the collar bone and either way it was in the wrong place.

Sorry about the length of this reply, but properly understanding lightning has always drove me nuts and I took this as a golden opportunity to consult an expert. I hope I'm not abusing the priviledge too much...

No worries. I know how to say no, it's no abuse. If I don't want to reply I just won't.

 

[Schlangan]

Tries after tries, I'm coming again with my new facesets. I finally decided to stick to a manga-like style for the drawings, but by still keeping the 3/4 view.


Here are four facesets (at the bottom), compared to the version before (at the top).





Please give me comments on the subject, any advice would be appreciated; Is it enough for a game, or does it still need a lot of improvements ? Thank you.

 

[Sharm]

I like the new face shapes.  They look better and have more variety.  You should decide now if you're doing airbrush or pixel art and not mix the two styles.

 

[Schlangan]

I'll be honest, I don't know what airbrush is, but I suppose the blur I used at some parts is called like that; I'll stick at pixel art in that case, I just have to think on how correctly represent the badly shaved beard of the second soldier. Thank you.

 

[Nirwanda]

You're doing better than most. Most of what you shaded was according to that source, it was the unusual lighting choice and the few errors that made it confusing.

It wasn't exactly a "choice" and more "just what came out". I still have a lot of trouble imagining light, though in the act of explaining myself, plus the advice you gave, I've gained a lot of insight into the matter.  Hopefully eventually, I can stop playing it by ear and actually make what I want instead of whatever comes out.

It could work but I think you should only have a flashlight light source if that's specifically the look you want. In a world where you're running around in sunny fields it would look terrible, in some horror game where the lighting is actually a flashlight it would work just fine.

Yeah, the more I "correct" the more it starts to look like this:

So I guess I should either use a "broader" light or add a second light source. Of course, I'm going to do my own research, asking you that too would definitely constitute abuse...

That wasn't what I was refering too, but yes. That's where the chin is casting a shadow on the neck, it would only be a flat line like that if her face was actually flat. It should be more of a U shape with the lowest part in the center of her neck.

Hmm... I'm not sure what you meant, by lowest part of her neck you mean something like this?

(I started to realize it would look kind of spooky, and that I should go another route before getting to the hair corrections.)

I meant to ask a couple of questions here, but they ended up turning into "how do I do this?", and really, that would be a bother to you and wouldn't help me in the long run.

Thanks again, Sharm, you're so very helpful

BTW, I love your avatar, it's really cool looking. Is that your art? Is there a complete version available to see?

 

[Sharm]

I do think a light source that is farther away is a good idea, but you don't need a secondary one.  If you want it to look more natural what you really need is to pick a location where it's more natural for the light to come from.  Think about where light usually comes IRL.
 
No,  meant the lowest part of the shadow should be in the center, and by center I mean relative to her, not relative to our view.  Think about it this way; you're representing a 3D person, from the point of view of the light source the bottom of her chin doesn't actually line up with the edge of her neck on our view, it's going to line up with the center of her neck, where her esophagus is.  From our point of view that center point of her neck is to the left of the edge but not in our center.  That's why I suggested more o f a U shape for the chin's shadow, you're going to get a little of the chin on the other side of center casting shadows too.  To put it another way, since the light is coming from the right and there's nothing on the right side to cast a shadow, shouldn't the right side of her neck have no shadow at all?

The collar bone and neck muscle are looking better but they're still wrong.  Feel where the collar bone is on you, where it attaches both to the chest and where it attaches at the shoulders.  Feel where your neck muscles are and where's they're not.  Look in the mirror.  That should help you place things better.  But as a hint, you've got them attaching wrong.  The neck muscle you drew is looking like it attaches to the collar bone on the other side of the neck.  The collar bone you drew looks like it attaches to the shoulders very close to the base of the neck.  Most people get collar bones wrong for some reason.
 

BTW, I love your avatar, it's really cool looking. Is that your art? Is there a complete version available to see?

No, Bukarette did this. It's just a bust so the full version doesn't have much more.  I can draw fairly well myself but my style is less painterly.