The Resource WIP Thread 3

Discussion in 'Resource Support' started by Celianna, Aug 14, 2017.

  1. Sharm

    Sharm Pixel Tile Artist Global Mod

    Messages:
    11,819
    Likes Received:
    7,975
    Location:
    USA
    First Language:
    English
    Primarily Uses:
    N/A
    I'm glad. People's reactions are so hit and miss and I was being unusually "EVERYTHING IS WRONG!" for me, in my own opinion. Especially since you had created a very pleasant base. Most of what I was saying was meant as an in general sort of thing, a way to help you get better on your own as you thought about things and came to your own conclusions about them.

    It can. But it's more than that. Using a white background shifts your perceptions, and you'll end up with a different image than one you would have made using a different background. In general when using white as a background it tends towards a washed out palette, and a drawing that only looks good on white. This can happen even if you pick colors from something that's working, because you can use those same colors in different proportions to make something a completely different color. To determine what isn't working you'll have to change the background and just see for yourself what is and isn't working. White backgrounds also make it a little harder to give a fair critique of whether or not you've got a good sprite. ;)

    Well, that's a bit tricky. Sprites should only have the important details. When I was first making bases I did the all out details and made it as perfect as I could, but the more I've made sprite bases, the more I've realized that most of the information I was jamming in there was not only useless, but getting in the way. My latest sprite is a super simple pudgy soft doll looking thing and it's the most effective as a sprite base out of everything I've ever made. I feel a bit like I'm cheating my way out of work, I'll be honest, but because I've changed priorities when working on it, it's doing it's real job better. That's so much more important, especially since I'm not making my artwork just for myself.

    This is why I was focusing on asking what details were important to you and why. If the game is going to have a nude beach, for example, having a really detailed sprite with genitalia details might be important. But if the game never has anyone in less than full winter gear then that's not important at all.

    Basically, the details are the focus, telling the viewer what's important. Your sprite has huge eyes, this means that the eyes are extremely important. Maybe you want to be able to show a lot of expression with just the way the eyes move, maybe eye color is a big deal in your game, maybe you want everyone to look soulful, but you've chosen to have the eyes as one of the most important things there and without reducing the details for them (in this case by shrinking them) there's no getting out of that. This base would be awful on a game more focused on the body, like if you had a FF5 job class system, or wanted to do a more western RPG where the focus was way less on characters. Being aware of that will help you make better decisions on what details to keep or add and which don't matter or would get in the way.

    Functionally this means the same thing, unless I'm not understanding your point. I mean, you did say perfect practice makes perfect earlier. It doesn't matter if there's a real game, if you practice like it's going to be in one you'll have better practice at making real sprites.

    I'm not sure I understand what you want. I think doing the full sheet would be better for practicing a sprite. Doing a front view is very different than doing a full sprite, and you'd be surprised at how things you thought made sense suddenly seem wrong when you try to get them moving or do the full turn around.

    No, but it is a very roundabout way to try and get you to figure out on your own that you messed up the perspective. ;) Now that I'm less cranky I don't feel so bad about being direct. It's a very common error, but the sprite you made is in full front view. Your sprite needs to have the "camera" of our vision placed way higher. If this were 3D the camera angle would be roughly 60 degrees.

    You're welcome. I'm just one very noisy person though, so do the amount that suits you and what you're doing. As long as you're listening and making those decisions purposefully, I don't mind being disagreed with.
     
    Snow White and starlight dream like this.
  2. starlight dream

    starlight dream Loving life...One dream at a time Veteran

    Messages:
    911
    Likes Received:
    15,282
    Location:
    My inner mount Athos..
    First Language:
    EN, EL, FR
    Primarily Uses:
    RMVXA
    @Andreyla Hi

    I'm not a big expert either, but I'll point out some things that I notice in your sprite. Just opinions meant to be helpful (hopefully).

    The fact that the sprite is naked, makes me wonder if it would be used 'naked' in a game (or art piece). You said it's just for practice of course, but I think it's useful to look at it "as if" it'd be used in a game.
    If the character won't be seen naked, then the effort it takes you to shade the skin, and create those exact proportions, is perhaps too much work.

    I can say I'm impressed with the detail (esp. if you're just starting out) and the color choices. It shows you're capable of coloring and creating volume and tone, which will come in handy when you're creating clothes for it too.

    But the detail is likely too much for a base (IMO), unless it is to be used naked.

    One thing that stands out is the size of the head compared to the body. I feel the head is a bit too large for her thin body, but I could be wrong here as I'm no chibi expert. It could look that way due to the angle of the body.
    The fact that the body is so detailed and the head isn't (on the top part) clashes somewhat visually at this point.

    The only "glitch" I can imagine is the position of her legs.
    This is for your future reference, it isn't something to focus on at this point:

    If the sprite is active and must take a step forth (imagine you'll have to create 1 image with a leg forth, and no other frames in-between) it will be difficult to position the legs into a smooth stepping transition from the current standing pose. Main reason is that the legs are as wide as the hips, when they should be a bit more close together (if the sprite is walking and not just standing there). For a sprite that only stands still the position isn't problematic.

    Like I said, I'm no expert, so listen to Sharm :p

    When people post sprites, it's better if they put a color background instead of white, because it's hard to distinguish skin tones and where all the pixels end.^^
    I believe Sharm was referring to a background while making the sprite, so I don't want to confuse you about backgrounds :LZSrasp:

    I also think it's important to ask yourself the questions she mentioned, before beginning to sprite.

    The things I wrote about the legs are "finishing issues" and shouldn't be applied at this point. It's better to know what you're aiming to achieve with a creation, and work on the overall shape and size first.

    I think you have the talent and color knowledge to make great-looking sprites.
    Cheeeeers! :)

    Edit: I hadn't read Sharm's latest reply when I posted. Sorry for any repetitions.

    Edit #2:

    Superb point! Only when I read that, I realized how true that is. And how important.
    It changes how I see character creation entirely. Wow. Thank you! :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
    Snow White and Sharm like this.
  3. Andreyla

    Andreyla I'm 98% popcorn Veteran

    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    225
    First Language:
    English
    Primarily Uses:
    RMMV
    Thank you so much @Sharm and @starlight dream , sooooo much gold info here. I'll sit down and have a tinker and see if i can improve on this. I think I understand everything you are both saying now so I'll try to implement it. :kiss::kiss:
     
  4. Andreyla

    Andreyla I'm 98% popcorn Veteran

    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    225
    First Language:
    English
    Primarily Uses:
    RMMV
    @Sharm @starlight dream How's this attempt? I tried to make it more true to chibi style while trying to make it not to wide. I also added clothes so hopefully it's easier to see as a sprite. I tried giving her a lot of bounce for cuteness factor :) [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    *EDIT* Just realized I didn't alternate the arm on the side views. It's been a long day lol.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
  5. Sharm

    Sharm Pixel Tile Artist Global Mod

    Messages:
    11,819
    Likes Received:
    7,975
    Location:
    USA
    First Language:
    English
    Primarily Uses:
    N/A
    I've been having extra health problems lately so I'm probably going to miss something important or trail off in the middle of an explanation and not realize it. Apologies in advance.

    I don't think you can quite get away with that big of motion without more frames. Instead of looking cute it looks choppy. It mostly looks good. The biggest problem I'm seeing with the animation is that none of it matches. This is the most glaring when she turns from side to front and her bangs go from stretching many pixels and shifting drastically to only moving a little at the tip. What happened to the whole thing moving?

    The side view ear is too far back, that's why you're having troubles with the shading of the jaw. With a side view the ear should be pretty much in the middle. That will help her hair look less awkward too. The going left bangs have these strange creases in them. I'm not sure what those extra shades and highlights are meant to represent.

    The shirt in the back view is the perfect example of pillow shading. There are other shading problems but most of them look like a result of you just getting it roughed in and done, I'd expect at least most to go away as you cleaned them up during finishing. If you don't know what I mean here, perhaps it'd be good to look up PixelJoint's pixel art tutorial.

    The shade of light pink between the base color and the highlight isn't doing you any favors. You could get rid of it and the piece would look the same. Save yourself some work. If you really feel like there should be something to make the jump to the highlight less harsh you could just use it only to anti-alias the highlight instead of being it's own big shading color.
     
  6. starlight dream

    starlight dream Loving life...One dream at a time Veteran

    Messages:
    911
    Likes Received:
    15,282
    Location:
    My inner mount Athos..
    First Language:
    EN, EL, FR
    Primarily Uses:
    RMVXA
    I find it super cute! ^^b

    I'm all for bouncy sprites I guess, but I'd expect every character to have a bouncy-type of animation so she wouldn't look too weird next to the others.

    There are a couple of mistakes.
    - In the back view, her front hair parts on the wrong side.
    - In the front (and back) view, the ears aren't even. One starts lower than the other. They should be at the same level.
    - From the front and sides, it appears as if her long hair is behind her shoulders. But when we see her from the back the pony tails don't seem to cover the back, they look on the sides. I *think* they should cover more of her back.

    What I like:
    Cute clothes. I love her arm movements (esp. on the front view)
    And it's impressive you worked so fast.
    I also like her pointy nose on the side direction!

    Sprites require fine-tuning. Rest assured, it's normal to do several edits to polish them :)
     
  7. Andreyla

    Andreyla I'm 98% popcorn Veteran

    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    225
    First Language:
    English
    Primarily Uses:
    RMMV
    Thanks so much @Sharm and @starlight dream for your time! By the sounds of mistakes I'm making, I think most of the errors are due to my general lack of drawing skills. Still having issues translating what I see in my head in 2D. What I might do is take some drawing lessons and see if that gets me a bit further ^_^ Thank you :D
     
  8. starlight dream

    starlight dream Loving life...One dream at a time Veteran

    Messages:
    911
    Likes Received:
    15,282
    Location:
    My inner mount Athos..
    First Language:
    EN, EL, FR
    Primarily Uses:
    RMVXA
    @Andreyla Drawing skills is something you appear to have, but it's good to keep learning of course.

    I believe most of the "mistakes" are simply indications that a sprite is in the process of being made, without having reached the final result. :LZScat:
    You'd laugh if you knew how many times I've completed a sprite, imported it in the game, only to realize the hair is parting on the wrong side :p

    It happens when we're tired and push to finish it... Hoping we're done... when there's more work to tinker with lol

    I think you'd get a benefit from analyzing existing sprite sheets.
    The RTP sprites for example, are generally designed with features that are balanced.
    The hair often doesn't move, because this allows to copy-paste it, from frame to frame, without (m)any adjustments.
    The hair is usually similar on the left and right side of the face (with middle partings or no partings). This allows to design the hair when the character goes left, and simply mirror the frames when she walks right, without changing the hair at all (or the outfit).

    This type of simplicity allows for creation to go faster, and having less details to adjust.

    Of course it's not mandatory to take that route. The hair style you created is more interesting and attractive. A sprite can be as complex as you like. It's perhaps easier to learn with simpler designs.

    Your sprite is actually more detailed than normal, if we include the bounciness of her hair.
    This isn't bad, in fact it looks like a high quality design, but it means a bit more work to get all the details as right as possible.^^
    It'd be a pity if you walked from this thinking you're not good at it, when in fact you have strong skills, and only need the finishing touches.

    An exercise could be to take an existing sprite sheet (something quite simple from the RTP) and edit it. Give it for example a hair cut, or change the skin colour, pixel by pixel. It'll help you focus on how it is designed, and you'll notice what stays the same from frame, etc.

    Your art skills are excellent (being honest) you don't have a mountain to climb to get there :LZSrasp:
     
    Snow White and Guiguimu like this.
  9. Andreyla

    Andreyla I'm 98% popcorn Veteran

    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    225
    First Language:
    English
    Primarily Uses:
    RMMV
    Thanks @starlight dream for the advice and the compliments :kiss: I'll try your suggestions.

    Maybe I bit off too complex a piece. I have a background in sculpture, and with 12 years up my sleeve in that field I've been a bit impatient with going back to basics for 2D. Give me a lump of clay and I can render hair in 2 minutes, give me a piece of paper and a pen and I'm like what the heck? :guffaw:
    While I have looked at the sprite sheets I find them quite difficult to understand visually. There's so much going on when they're fully clothed. It's part of the reason I decided to forgo armor and put the sprite in a shirt and jeans lol.
    That being said, I did push myself to finish it in a single day. Partly because I was excited and partly because I was eager to see the end result. All that happened was a very long work day (which started at 9:30pm and ended at the wee hours of the morning LOL).

    I wasn't ready to give up or anything, I just noticed that a lot of the critiques revolved around areas that I genuinely was riding the struggle bus for. It took me ages to figure out how to draw and highlight the hair, because I've never had to colour hair before. It was very understandable to hear that a lot of my errors revolved around it. Also, not getting it looking consistent on every angle was partly because I have no idea how to "turn" a 2D image around. My brain was a little inside out on that too. This is why my thoughts were to study drawing a bit more. I have plenty of time on my hands at the moment so it doesn't phase me too much :)

    This thread has been very helpful. I don't think I would've identified my problem areas as quickly without it. Thank you :D
     
  10. starlight dream

    starlight dream Loving life...One dream at a time Veteran

    Messages:
    911
    Likes Received:
    15,282
    Location:
    My inner mount Athos..
    First Language:
    EN, EL, FR
    Primarily Uses:
    RMVXA
    It's gotta be fun with a sculpture: you shape the hair from the front, then turn the head to the side and ta-daaa! The side-view matches the front!! :D

    With 12 years of sculpting experience you have an idea when it comes to proportions and values. Any skills can come in handy, but you're right, it'll be good to practice 2D art specifically.
    Spriting takes a loooong time. I've been up countless nights 'til morning, fixing pixels :p It does get easier over time, but a lot of people don't realize how much work and time goes into animating those prancing little people.

    I'm happy if the suggestions were helpful, and that you took the time to explain your experience. Because it's weird giving advice: we don't know how the person will take it, or if they understand it. Best of luck and looking forward to more of your art (including some sculptures! They can be in a game too, why not?) ^_^b.
     
    Snow White, Andreyla and Marquise* like this.
  11. beliziam

    beliziam Veteran Veteran

    Messages:
    149
    Likes Received:
    238
    First Language:
    Germany
    Primarily Uses:
    RMMV
    I'm currently working on a library map. This is the first set piece for the map.
    bibleo sample.png
     
  12. StrawberrySmiles

    StrawberrySmiles The Talking Fruit Veteran

    Messages:
    1,727
    Likes Received:
    552
    Location:
    South Carolina
    First Language:
    English
    Primarily Uses:
    RMMV
    I like the book on the bench. It's cute.

    So, I'm trying to edit PandaMaru's gazebo tiles and place snow on them. I can deal with pixel art, but this painted style is really hard. I might just give it up soon.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Sharm

    Sharm Pixel Tile Artist Global Mod

    Messages:
    11,819
    Likes Received:
    7,975
    Location:
    USA
    First Language:
    English
    Primarily Uses:
    N/A
    So far it looks pretty good. You're going to want to soften up those corners though. Painted it just a different mindset, and in some ways is easier and faster, you'll just need to get used to it.
     
    Snow White likes this.
  14. Ryisunique

    Ryisunique Detective, AUEI Veteran

    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    249
    Location:
    USA, Mid-ugh
    First Language:
    English
    Primarily Uses:
    RMVXA
    I took a made character from the generator and have been trying to recolor so that way I have a shadow 'monster' (still debating that part). However, when I followed the original shading and switched it over to grayscale, I ended up with a figure that looks like I pulled it out of a mudbath.

    Shadow t 2.png
    I don't know if just keeping the dark bend areas and coloring it all the same would look good. And I don't know how to get rid of the bootyshorts.
     
    Snow White and Marquise* like this.
  15. Sharm

    Sharm Pixel Tile Artist Global Mod

    Messages:
    11,819
    Likes Received:
    7,975
    Location:
    USA
    First Language:
    English
    Primarily Uses:
    N/A
    You can go darker if you use color, like a deep red or purple. The shorts will have to be edited out, there's no way to get rid of them otherwise.
     
    Snow White, Marquise* and Ryisunique like this.
  16. Ryisunique

    Ryisunique Detective, AUEI Veteran

    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    249
    Location:
    USA, Mid-ugh
    First Language:
    English
    Primarily Uses:
    RMVXA
    Okay, so there's no purple shading, but the bootyshorts are gone. (Also realizing I'm missing a couple of dark marks to represent joints and natural creases. If those apply.)

    Shadow t 2c.png
     
  17. Snow White

    Snow White Worst case Senerio Veteran

    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    792
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    First Language:
    English
    Primarily Uses:
    RMMV
    Hello everyone :)
    I've been practising editing the default MV sprites, and I thought I'd ask what could use a bit (or a lot) of improving, as I haven't done any sprites in a while :hswt:
    I've only done the front view so far, they're meant to be Vishnu and Lakshmi :cutesmile:
    Vishnu and Lakshmi MV for forum.png
    And as a Gif, so you don't have to lug them into MV to check the animation :D
    Lakshmi and Vishnu animated.gif
    I also thought I'd try to make a blinking animation, as it might be cute with their big eyes and all, what do you think?
    I've got it as three frames, so you can have a slow blink like the one above, or a faster one like this:
    Lakshmi and Vishnu blink.gif
    Feel free to point out anything and everything you think could use some work, I won't be offended, any advice will be very appreciated :)
    (Also following @Sharm 's earlier advice, I put them on a grey background so they're a little easier to see, hopefully :))
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2018
  18. RocketKnight

    RocketKnight Broke with expansive taste Veteran

    Messages:
    500
    Likes Received:
    858
    Location:
    São Paulo
    First Language:
    Portuguese
    Primarily Uses:
    RMVXA
    [​IMG]
    Few of them still WIP.​
     
  19. slimmmeiske2

    slimmmeiske2 Little Red Riding Hood Moderator

    Messages:
    3,719
    Likes Received:
    3,376
    Location:
    Belgium
    First Language:
    Dutch
    Primarily Uses:
    RMXP
    @Snow White Those images aren't showing up for me.
     
    Snow White likes this.
  20. Snow White

    Snow White Worst case Senerio Veteran

    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    792
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    First Language:
    English
    Primarily Uses:
    RMMV
    Thank you so much for pointing that out @slimmmeiske2 , I just checked and they wheren't showing up for me either!! :kaoswt2:
    Hopefully you can see them now? :)
     

Share This Page